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HCA question. Poor Choice?

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surfnrg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
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HCA question. After all the research, I purchased a GIA 1.65 E, eye-clean SI2, VG cut, VG polish, VG sym. NF.

Stone looks nice in it''s tension clasp. But when I use the HCA calculator using the GIA info, it comes to a 5.9
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. Have I made a poor choice? Hard to compare without other loose stones around.

Table: 61 Depth: 60.7 Crown angle: 32 Pavilion angle: 41.8.

Any thoughts? Garry?
 
Whats the lower girdle percentage?
overall Id say VG is where that basic proportion set would fall which is what GIA rated it as.
 
pavilionit appears to be 45%, crown 12.5%. med-thin girdle. HCA does not like the % I entered
 
surf, strms referring to something else. I'm giving you a link of a GIA grading report. On the bottom right there is the diagram of the diamond. On the bottom left of that, there is a number (on this one it is 80%). That's what he's asking for.

http://204.17.89.15/show.php?image=1702/gia.jpg
 
sorry, 80% on my report
 
No need to apologize!
 
OK, so before I set this stone today.... am I wasting my time/money on a 5.9???
 
Personally, I would not get anything that is rated over HCA 2.0
 
Date: 8/3/2007 10:24:51 AM
Author: Chrono
Personally, I would not get anything that is rated over HCA 2.0
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While there are stones that could rate over 2 and be beautiful, it would be much easier for you to stick with this advice. I know you can do better.
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Trying for an AGS0 would take the guesswork out, if those are available to you. If not, sticking with these guidelines would help with GIA stones.

60.3-62.2 depth
34-35 crown angle
40.6-41.0 pavillion angle
54-57 table
 
Ellen said it much better than I did. Yes, there are stones with HCA scores over 2 that are beautiful but these are very hard to find and extremely few. I agree that to take the guesswork out of finding these rare treasures, or messing around with the HCA, an AGS0 stone is the way to go, although these are probably a bit pricier than GIA stones.
 
It should have a pretty good spread, but not a lot of ''life'' compared to what many around here prefer.

The GIA data is very rounded - it is not a perfect guide.

I would not stock a stone like that in my store
 
What was the cost of this stone?? That may make a difference..
 
Date: 8/3/2007 5:45:26 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It should have a pretty good spread, but not a lot of ''life'' compared to what many around here prefer.


The GIA data is very rounded - it is not a perfect guide.


I would not stock a stone like that in my store
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Thanks, that says a lot. I''m sure the average person would be amazed at this stone, particularly when set...I tried to go above the conventional stone--knowing that my wife would be wearing "the best" when it came to the C''s. Having decided what compromises to take to attain something great in a budget, I thought I made a great choice.

Not to have buyers remorse, but finding/using the HCA (and getting a 5.9) after buying the stone really made me take an extra approach to this thing.

But would the layperson notice a significant difference in performance if I substituted my 5.9 for a <2 stone?

The majority of contributers to this forum are so passionate about this, that they expect the best--and can probably determine a VG cut to an Ideal one.

Thoughts?
 
Date: 8/3/2007 10:17:19 PM
Author: surfnrg


Thanks, that says a lot. I''m sure the average person would be amazed at this stone, particularly when set...I tried to go above the conventional stone--knowing that my wife would be wearing ''the best'' when it came to the C''s. Having decided what compromises to take to attain something great in a budget, I thought I made a great choice.

Not to have buyers remorse, but finding/using the HCA (and getting a 5.9) after buying the stone really made me take an extra approach to this thing.

But would the layperson notice a significant difference in performance if I substituted my 5.9 for a <2 stone?
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If you placed a 5.9 next to a 2, you would be able to tell the difference, now that you know what to look for. I think that should matter more than what the average "layperson" would notice, especially since you now have the knowledge to judge the quality of cut of a stone.

Purchasing a 1.65 ct diamond is rather significant and it would make sense to put your money into the best stone you can find that will make you & your wife happy in the long run. If you think you''ll always wonder if you should have shopped around a bit more, why not look around a bit more?
 
Date: 8/3/2007 10:17:19 PM
Author: surfnrg


But would the layperson notice a significant difference in performance if I substituted my 5.9 for a <2 stone?


Thoughts?
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When the stone is dirty if another better stone was next to it it would be apparent in most lightings.

When clean, they would look as good in perhaps 1/2 the lightings and the better stone would out perform in some others.
 
hmmm. Of course, after you buy anything, there will always be a better deal that you find later.

Commitment: It''s a bi-tch.
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But....I will know the difference. I need a deflector shield on my woman''s finger (the 61% table does have a great "glare" factor to it). I want brilliant, not mirror-blinding.

This stone is clean, it it does look nicer than just about any diamond I''ve personally inspected; there''s no B&M in my area that carries that size/quality. So hard to "compare"
 
Hi, I'm just going to chime in with my story. I do believe that if your happy with your stone, you should be happy.

However, I just saw that my last diamond, a 1.3 carat, had a 61% table . I do see that you do get brilliance and white light coming from it. Unfortunately, there is a difference when you are in the same room with someone else and you see their diamond flash to you from across the room (even a smaller diamond). I just replaced it with a new 1.6 carat diamond that scored well on the HCA. I place the two diamonds side by side and am amazed at the difference. I have a 1.6 carat diamond and someone actually asked me if I have 2 or 3 carat diamond.

For me the difference between the my two diamonds is this: My 1.3 you can see from about 3 feet and my 1.6 HCA 1.0 you can see from across the room.

Just my perspective
 
I would really want to know if you have maxed out your budget already or not.

If you have maxed out your budget then it seems to me you have two choices. You can reduce the ct weight of your diamond and increase the quality. In that case you should probably do what I will do:) I am going to, eventually, show her the report and teach her a good deal about the quality of the diamond (when it feels natural to do so and she is interested of course) In that way she can truly appreciate the value for all of its not immediately obvious benefits.

Or you could choose another very real option, and that is to stick with the diamond you have and just tell her the ct weight. If she is like most of the women I know then she will be ooohhhed and awweed away just be the weight of the diamond and then get it insured yourself. Just never bother teaching her all you know about the diamond, and don't show her the certification. No need to, and in that way she will simply look at it and say its big and beautiful. No need for her to feel bad at all.

Or, you could probably lower color and improve the cut some, maybe go down to G or H in color and get a more ideal cut? Then because of the SI2 clarity you probably wouldn't want to really emphasis the cert specs wither, but then I imagine it would probably be even more impressive than it is currently with the same size and better light performance.

Also, one last thought, make sure you spend alot of time looking at it with the clarity in mind. I know you said it is eye clean, which is great, but make sure that it really is, the last thing you want is to have to go through the ordeal of her finding an inclusion after you give it to her. That is disastrous, I know from my brother's experience
6.gif
. Give it some real good look overs, in different lighting at different angles. Also, be wary of some recent discussion of SI2's and clouds making it look dull or sleepy. I don't know anything about your diamond, but if you combined a less than ideal cut with some dullness caused by inclusions you may well see a MAJOR difference between it's performance and other options available. Just some of my thoughts anyway.

Oh, and if you have not maxed out your budget I say go ahead and up that cut and MAYBE clarity one bump
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It's your Ering after all:)
 
Right on. I do agree with clarity, but seeing small eye inclusions from other angles other than face up doesn''t really bother me. In fact, it comforts me knowing that diamond is unique. I was researching asschers for several months; there I believe clarity is so much more an issue than with rounds.

So, hence the compromise with clarity to afford a slightly larger, better cut stone. I''m willing to accept a G or better. The E was just incidentally a good buy (before I understood crown/pavilion angles).
 
Date: 8/4/2007 9:17:28 AM
Author: surfnrg
Right on. I do agree with clarity, but seeing small eye inclusions from other angles other than face up doesn''t really bother me. In fact, it comforts me knowing that diamond is unique. I was researching asschers for several months; there I believe clarity is so much more an issue than with rounds.

So, hence the compromise with clarity to afford a slightly larger, better cut stone. I''m willing to accept a G or better. The E was just incidentally a good buy (before I understood crown/pavilion angles).
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They can also be used to confirm it''s your stone with a quick glance, say, after getting it back from the jeweler after being worked on.


I would suggest looking at some really well cut stones, like HOF and other brands, to determine your color tolerance. Well cut stones face up very white through H, but many have I''s and J''s that they are extemely happy with on here. Going down in color will allow you more money to go towards cut.
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I was comparing another AGSL(6) SI-2 stone that has a HCA of 1. Problem is it''s not "eye-clean" per the vendor. I attached the AGSL mapping.. I really cannot afford to hit the SI1 range...and the recent posts about clouds/dullness have me concerned about looking for new stones.

Can anybody here estimate how this would appear face-up?

I''m dropping from an HCA of 5.9 to a 1, but substituting clarity. Does the AGSL "key to symbols" differ from report to report? Meaning, are all the items in the legend IN that stone?

agsl6.JPG
 
Date: 8/5/2007 2:59:38 AM
Author: surfnrg
I was comparing another AGSL(6) SI-2 stone that has a HCA of 1. Problem is it''s not ''eye-clean'' per the vendor. I attached the AGSL mapping.. I really cannot afford to hit the SI1 range...and the recent posts about clouds/dullness have me concerned about looking for new stones.

Can anybody here estimate how this would appear face-up?

I''m dropping from an HCA of 5.9 to a 1, but substituting clarity. Does the AGSL ''key to symbols'' differ from report to report? Meaning, are all the items in the legend IN that stone?
Click to expand...
It would seem this is an honest SI2 - plenty of real inclusios so none of the dulling of the senses clouds. If you never bother to orientate the stone so you look thru that facet in cloudy daylight you will probably never see the hard to see inclusion
 
that''s interesting. i''m assuming that the above AGS6 doesn''t have all the inclusions in the key, such as chip or cleavage, right?

In a round, are inclusions obscured by the performance of the stone (as compared to an EC)? Do you think the HCA1 could outweight that clarity.

FYI, here''s the GIA clarity plot for the HCA 5.9 that I own now.

gia clarity1.JPG
 
I cant remember exactly when it was, maybe 4-5 months ago? AGS changed their inclusion list so that it only listed the included inclusions. Prior to that it listed all of the inclusions possible, as you are seeing, and then had the inclusoin plot above it. This though, from what I understand, caused some panic amongst consumers who saw so many inclusions listed. This was naturally exasperated by people who were reading GIA reports and seeing only 1,2,3 or however many inclusions were actually present listed, and then looking at an AGS report with the whole list included. It also made it more difficult to determine, as you know doubt experienced, exactly which inclusions were present. Thus, they changed over to the format that emulates the GIA format, which in my opinion was def. the right move! thus, the differences you are seeing are based on the date of the cert, only newer certs having the smaller inclusion list.
 
surfnrg, I've been keeping up with your stone saga and I was just curious if you kept the 5.9 HCA stone or traded it. It's been 6 days with no word. I can tell you, there will always be upsides and downsides to almost every diamond you pick. I do agree that a 5.9 may have some performance problems, but it will still sparkle more than the ton of GIA "Good" cuts that are out there, so if it is already set and a "Done Deal", than you should be proud that your wife has an E color 1.65 ct. Very Good cut stone.
If it is not a "Done Deal", then I too would suggest going down in color & up in cut. I have an H SI1 Med. Fl, and it's very white! The H color could allow you maybe to go SI1, then you'd have a much better chance of getting an "Eye Clean" stone. My H , Excellent cut faces up just as white as my friends D Good cut, only hers if VERY lacking in the sparkle dept. Mine is an HCA 2.0, so while not exactly as perfect as most here, it out performs the 5.9 or 2.6 HCA stones I had as my final 3 candidates (I had all 3 stones side by side). The series of compromises that are made to find "just the right stone" are endless. I think in my case I had to realize, that I should make the choice that worked FOR ME, visually & financially. I think of my stones imperfections as uniqueness. I am not flawless and either is my diamond, but I feel we are a team, because like my husband, it will be with me for life and all it's imperfections only endear it more to me, because no one on earth has the EXACT diamond I have!
 
What is a "laser drill hole" listed under the key to inclusions?? I have been reading some certs online and have not seen that .
 
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