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HCA score under 1

JLW05

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
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I'm looking at a diamond with a crown angle of 34.9, a pavilion angle of 40.6, table 55.7 and depth 61.5. The diamond will be set in a ring. HCA score of .8 indicates the diamond should be set in a pendant. Should I have any concerns? I own a diamond that scored a .8 on the HCA but based on the crown/pavilion angles I understand why but in this instance I'm confused. My better diamonds usually score over 1.
 
Personally speaking, I think it would be fine in a ring. My good lady's ring has a 0.8 HCA stone and there are no issues with it looking dark due to obstruction issues.
 
To me the numbers see fine, I think the diamond would work well for a pendant...
 
It's scoring thus because of the pavilion angle being on the shallow side, chances are it's perfectly fine, just make sure the stone doesn't go dark when viewed closely. Where've you seen the stone?
 
658B2CCE-0DA7-4851-82A2-EEF31EB1BAE3.jpeg
I'm curious about the over-1, under-1 thing because ours has numbers similar to the ones you listed and an HCA of exactly 1.0 which is much closer to Pendants & Necklaces than Best for Rings.

Her ring is stunning and I haven't noticed any problems on her finger at all. But numbers only tell part of the story of course...

Depth % 61.6
Table % 55.9
Crown Angle 34.6
Star 49.0
Pavilion Angle 40.7
Crown % 15.2
Lower Girdle % 78.0

www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3955177.htm
 
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658B2CCE-0DA7-4851-82A2-EEF31EB1BAE3.jpeg
I'm curious about the over-1, under-1 thing because ours has numbers similar to the ones you listed and an HCA of exactly 1.0 which is much closer to Pendants & Necklaces than Best for Rings.

Her ring is stunning and I haven't noticed any problems on her finger at all. But numbers only tell part of the story of course...

Depth % 61.6
Table % 55.9
Crown Angle 34.6
Star 49.0
Pavilion Angle 40.7
Crown % 15.2
Lower Girdle % 78.0

www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3955177.htm
The HCA is coarse filter applied to GIA XXX to narrow the field to those having potential. That potential is confirmed by an IS or ASET, H&A (symmetry), and physical examination (video, in person, etc.). The HCA is not used to select a stone as 2 stones may have the same angles and score the same, but one may have highly variable angles while the other one are tighter leading to less leakage and greater symmetry. HCA is a rejection tool only.

You have a WF ACA branded super-ideal, AGS000. They are cut with extremely tight tolerances and have all the images needed to confirm they have ideal light return. HCA is not used to confirm performance, it is used to reject stones among the vast pool of GIAXXX. You are incorrectly using a coarse filter rejection tool for fine selection.
 
You have a WF ACA branded super-ideal, AGS000. They are cut with extremely tight tolerances and have all the images needed to confirm they have ideal light return. HCA is not used to confirm performance, it is used to reject stones among the vast pool of GIAXXX. You are incorrectly using a coarse filter rejection tool for fine selection.

Well said.
 
Thank you all. I was very curious, especially since the last time I used the HCA it didn't have the added feature of indicating whether the diamond is best for pendants or rings. I haven't placed the diamond on hold so I didn't want to give too much info. I know that occasionally there are lurkers!
 
"You are incorrectly using a coarse filter rejection tool for fine selection."

That's why I said I was curious and that "the numbers only tell part of the story of course"

There are lots of facets, angles and interactions that only show up in real life and not on paper or monitors. That's why I paid Whiteflash to pick out a good one.

Still, the the little arrow for 1.0 is right down there on the bar next to the second S in Pendants and Necklaces. I repeatedly see folks talking about under-1 and over-1 and I sometimes feel left out. :boohoo:
 
To answer your question as briefly as possible, the under 1 score is most likely due to the Pavilion Angle of 40.6. It seems that most combinations with a PA of 40.6 return an HCA score under 1 except for when the Crown Angle is 35.5. I believe this is due to the potential obstruction issues (meaning diamond going dark when viewing up close) that can be caused by lower pavilion angles at around 40.5 degrees, combined with the fact that GIA rounds the average of the pavilion angles to the nearest 0.2 degrees. Thus, a 40.6 pavilion angle could actually be closer to an average of 40.51 degrees, and some of the individual pavilion mains may dip below 40.5. This is why some prefer to select only GIA stones with 40.8 Pavilion Angles. Even so, I don't think that a 40.6 pavilion angle in a GIA graded diamond is really ever an issue unless it's combined with a lower crown angle as well (like a 40.6/34.0 combo).

The "HCA under 1 is best for pendants/earrings" argument is based on avoiding these shallow combos like 40.6/34.0 or something like 41.0/32.5 (which can be a very bright combo for earrings/pendants) for stones that will be viewed up close in rings. But not every stone with a HCA score under 1 will suffer from this obstruction. The 40.6/35.0 combo also typically scores under 1, but I've never seen a case on here where someone has reported obstruction in a well cut 40.6/35.0 diamond.

Furthermore, the stone you are considering is an AGS stone, which means that the 40.6 Pavilion is actually an average of 40.6 (or pretty darn close). And with an ACA stone, I wouldn't worry about what the HCA says in this case. A 40.6/34.9 combo is going to be beautiful. :)
 
To answer your question as briefly as possible, the under 1 score is most likely due to the Pavilion Angle of 40.6. It seems that most combinations with a PA of 40.6 return an HCA score under 1 except for when the Crown Angle is 35.5. I believe this is due to the potential obstruction issues (meaning diamond going dark when viewing up close) that can be caused by lower pavilion angles at around 40.5 degrees, combined with the fact that GIA rounds the average of the pavilion angles to the nearest 0.2 degrees. Thus, a 40.6 pavilion angle could actually be closer to an average of 40.51 degrees, and some of the individual pavilion mains may dip below 40.5. This is why some prefer to select only GIA stones with 40.8 Pavilion Angles. Even so, I don't think that a 40.6 pavilion angle in a GIA graded diamond is really ever an issue unless it's combined with a lower crown angle as well (like a 40.6/34.0 combo).

The "HCA under 1 is best for pendants/earrings" argument is based on avoiding these shallow combos like 40.6/34.0 or something like 41.0/32.5 (which can be a very bright combo for earrings/pendants) for stones that will be viewed up close in rings. But not every stone with an HCA score under 1 will suffer from this obstruction. The 40.6/35.0 combo also typically scores under 1, but I've never seen a case on here where someone has reported obstruction in a well cut 40.6/35.0 diamond.

Furthermore, the stone you are considering is an AGS stone, which means that the 40.6 Pavilion is actually an average of 40.6 (or pretty darn close). And with an ACA stone, I wouldn't worry about what the HCA says in this case. A 40.6/34.9 combo is going to be beautiful. :)

Very good post.

I've seen some with a 40.6 av PA and a balancing CA show some obstruction signs, but generally as you say, this is more with shallow C/P angles together that obstruction becomes an issue.
 
Fast forward to 3:30
In this video, the shallow stone has CA of 34.5 and PA of 39.5. That's SHALLOW.
When Garry talks about a shallow stone being suitable for pendents and earrings, he does not talk about 34/40.6. In fact, he calls the stone with 34.5CA and 40.5PA (HCA score of 0.5) balanced at 3:20.
 
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AGS 40.6 with a nice looking ASET and no signs of a cheated pavilion are going to be fine the vast majority of the time.
At one time even with the gia rounding I would have said that most of the gia 40.6 pavilion stones are fine but with the vast increase of wide ranging pavilion angles with twisted lowers I am not so confident these days.
 
Fast forward to 3:30
In this video, the shallow stone has CA of 34.5 and PA of 39.5. That's SHALLOW.
When Garry talks about a shallow stone being suitable for pendents and earrings, he does not talk about 34/40.6. In fact, he calls the stone with 34.5CA and 40.5PA (HCA score of 0.5) balanced at 3:20.
40.5 actual angles and none of them drop below ~40.45 is a totally different stone than one that has 5 of them below ~40.45 in a ring.
You cant get any confidence of that being the case off a grading report.
 
Fast forward to 3:30
In this video, the shallow stone has CA of 34.5 and PA of 39.5. That's SHALLOW.
When Garry talks about a shallow stone being suitable for pendents and earrings, he does not talk about 34/40.6. In fact, he calls the stone with 34.5CA and 40.5PA (HCA score of 0.5) balanced at 3:20.
Thx for posting that FP :-)
shallow girl gif.gif Shallow stones are bad for retailers because when you are buying them you are looking really closely on inspection. Step back and look at them the way you would in yours or a friends ring etc and you may well prefer a slightly shallower stone than a Tolkowsky. The slightly shallower stone measures and looks larger because it has better peripheral light return.
 
AGS 40.6 with a nice looking ASET and no signs of a cheated pavilion are going to be fine the vast majority of the time.
At one time even with the gia rounding I would have said that most of the gia 40.6 pavilion stones are fine but with the vast increase of wide ranging pavilion angles with twisted lowers I am not so confident these days.


Exactly and I'm noticing an increasing amount of those these days with potential obstruction issues.
 
Exactly and I'm noticing an increasing amount of those these days with potential obstruction issues.

Ditto! Seeing too many 40.6 with obstructions noticeable from just photos.
 
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