Heirloom Emerald: Worth Recutting?

[Gypsy]

I'm not sure how old this ring is... it was given to my grandmother when she was a preteen, though so it's at least 60 years old. She is from an area in Iran by the Russian border... so I think the emerald must be from the middle east somewhere. She has other emeralds MUCH nicer than this one... wears them often. Emeralds are her favorite gem.

This emerald is REALLY REALLY INCREDIBLY badly cut. The culet is off center and ROUND at the end and it's very included. BUT I was thinking it might be nice to see if someone can recut it for me. I'd probably lose a ton of carat weight, but then again I don't wear the thing now so what can it hurt? I'm hoping for a cut that will allow me to set the thing east/ west. My fiinger is a size 6 and so is the ring.

I have included pics... mostly to show the size of it and the inclusions (finally found the camera's marco function). Just wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts on the subject. Oh, yeah and there are small diamonds in the setting... I have no idea what I'd do with them... maybe use them in a new setting if the thing can be recut. But I'm not sure what the quality of them will be... I'm thinking it's not gonna be high.

Okay well here's the first pic which shows the damage and pitting to the polish on the table:

 

[Gypsy]

This one shows the inclusions in the stone from the back of the ring.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's the front again... but this time held up to the light... it's very cloudy the emerald... I think it's a combination of the inclusions and the fabulously horrid cut. The damage to the table isn't helping either, I'm sure.

 

[colormyworld]

I think storm is saying, that because of the stress placed upon a stone when cutting it is possiable for it to break during the process.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay. Well I've never had this ring appraised or insured. Should I do that before sending it off? Would it even be worth it... I mean I know its a natural emerald... but as it is it's a very SAD emerald and probably isn't worth much. Plus... I doubtful the insurance would cover damages incurred out of my willful act of placing it in harms way. So really, I'd have to just take the risk, I suppose.

Lots of food for thought here, then. Thank you so much Storm, as always you've been so great!


ETA: I sent a note off to Michael. THANK YOU.

 

[strmrdr]

You can ask him for an idea of its value now.
It wouldnt be covered while its being recut under any policy.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/5/2006 12:56:17 AM
Author: strmrdr
You can ask him for an idea of its value now.
It wouldnt be covered while its being recut under any policy.

Yes. I will definitely ask about the value of it as is... I''m curious now.

As for the insurance and re-cutting... I figured. It would be sheer stupidity for them to cover it... and if it''s one thing insurance companies aren''t... it''s stupid when it comes to $$.

 

[PrecisionGem]

IT''s hard to get a good look from your pictures, but the stone doesn''t seem to have a lot of clarity. I don''t think recutting it will do much for it, other than make it smaller.

I have never had a stone explode while cutting. I have had them crack from the heat when dopping, or sometimes (very very rarely), they can crack when they are first cut as their is bult up stress in the stone. Emeralds can be pretty included, and sometimes there isn''t much holding parts together, and during the cutting a piece of the stone may come away since you have cut the little bit thats holding it on away.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/5/2006 11:03:00 AM
Author: PrecisionGem
IT''s hard to get a good look from your pictures, but the stone doesn''t seem to have a lot of clarity. I don''t think recutting it will do much for it, other than make it smaller.

I have never had a stone explode while cutting. I have had them crack from the heat when dopping, or sometimes (very very rarely), they can crack when they are first cut as their is bult up stress in the stone. Emeralds can be pretty included, and sometimes there isn''t much holding parts together, and during the cutting a piece of the stone may come away since you have cut the little bit thats holding it on away.

Gene! Thanks so much for your comments. More food for thought.

I think I''ve decided to send it in to someone and have them look at it and give me advice with the emerald actually in front of them... and take it from there. I don''t want to destroy it.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay so I contacted Micheal E and he got back to me today:

Here are some of his comments:

"That emerald would probably not have any problem in recutting, but I would hesitate to recut anything but the crown of the stone. The reason for this is that since it is so included, recutting the pavilion would not do anything for the looks of the stone and would just cause you to lose weight and therefore value. The only reason to totally recut this stone would be to get a different shape, (which I am quite willing to do). Although there is always the possibility of damaging the stone during cutting, I really don''t think that a stone which has held up for many years of wear would have any problem with damage while recutting as recutting these types of stones uses very fine abrasives and very little pressure."


So I am waiting to hear from Wink now... and see what he says... but I am feeling quite hopeful.

Although (depending on what they say about the value of the stone as is) I think I want it completely recut. Am I being stupid?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/5/2006 6:32:13 PM
Author: Gypsy
Okay so I contacted Micheal E and he got back to me today:


Here are some of his comments:


''That emerald would probably not have any problem in recutting, but I would hesitate to recut anything but the crown of the stone. The reason for this is that since it is so included, recutting the pavilion would not do anything for the looks of the stone and would just cause you to lose weight and therefore value. The only reason to totally recut this stone would be to get a different shape, (which I am quite willing to do). Although there is always the possibility of damaging the stone during cutting, I really don''t think that a stone which has held up for many years of wear would have any problem with damage while recutting as recutting these types of stones uses very fine abrasives and very little pressure.''



So I am waiting to hear from Wink now... and see what he says... but I am feeling quite hopeful.


Although (depending on what they say about the value of the stone as is) I think I want it completely recut. Am I being stupid?

follow your heart.

 

[movie zombie]

i''d reset it but i wouldn''t have it recut....i''m too sentimental, i guess.

movie zombie

 

[PrecisionGem]

I think you are going to spend more on the recutting than the stone is worth. THe color doesn''t look very good, it'' seems to not have very much clarity. If the crown is pitted now, it''s most likely going to be pitted after recutting too. The only point would be if you want a different & smaller shape. But the best cutting in the world can''t make a dull emerald look good. THe best thing you could do for the stone maybe would be to have it re-oiled. That may help a bit.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/6/2006 8:47:22 AM
Author: PrecisionGem
I think you are going to spend more on the recutting than the stone is worth. THe color doesn''t look very good, it'' seems to not have very much clarity. If the crown is pitted now, it''s most likely going to be pitted after recutting too. The only point would be if you want a different & smaller shape. But the best cutting in the world can''t make a dull emerald look good. THe best thing you could do for the stone maybe would be to have it re-oiled. That may help a bit.

Okay... re-oiled. I have no idea what that means, but I''m game! (must become more educated in colored stones) As for the shape and cutting... well, I''ve decided to let Michael take a look tell me what he thinks. Seems like the best way to go.

As for senitmental... yes, the stone does have a lot of sentimental attachment-- but I talked to my grandmother and she told me to go for it. This is just one of many pieces my grandmother has given me, and not her favorite by any means. I''m her only granddaughter and she loves jewelry... so while she buys me some new pieces from time to time... most of the time when she tires of something, she gives it to me. You wouldn''t believe the sheer amount of 22K gold I have in the safety deposit box.

Will be having the ruby earrings, ring and pendant she gave me reset eventually. That''s my next expensive project after my e-ring re-set. This is just a bling project to keep me busy. Andf I have her blessing so...

What''s re-oiling and is it expensive?

 

[Gypsy]

Okay... Well I talked to Wink and he thinks Richard Homer can cut it for me... flat facet cut because concave would cost too much and would be a waste of money on this gem. The price is similar to the Michael E gave me soo... What are your thoughts? Which cutter is better? I''m leaning toward Richard Homer because I''ve just seen so much more of his work on this website and Michaels doesn''t have a lot for me to go on.... but then most of what Richard has on his site is concave cuts.

Thoughts? Which one would you choose?

 

[widget]

Hi, Gypsy...

This is just my opinion, but I kind of like the stone and setting "as is", and would probably not mess with it. I can''t help but wonder if that stone merits the trouble and expense of recutting. (I''d take $$ and put it in my "asscher remount fund!

)

Just my opinion, though...and you know what that''s worth!

I can tell you that I had Michael E cut an aqua for me to go into an old mounting, and I was delighted with his cutting, and how he successfullly adapted the mounting to accommodate the stone:

 

[PrecisionGem]

What kind of price are you being quoted to recut the stone?
What''s the size of the stone now?
I would venture to say you could buy a better quality emerald for what you are going to pay to have this one recut, and after recutting, you are not going to be any more pleased with the stone.
A very included emerald that doesnt'' have good crystal can be cut with a flat bottom pavilion and look the same as a well cut stone. You need to also add the cost of removing it from the mounting, and then remounting it.
I would leave it as it is.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay. SO... we are advising against wasting time and money on this. Money that A) would go to the diamond re-mount fund and B) could be spent of a completely new stone like the Richard Homer concave I want for this x-prong setting.

The price I am getting for this is 150-175 for a total recut and the emerald is about 8 x 8.

Hmm. And then there are the other attendant costs, which I did not ask about. And 200 dollars is still 200 dollars in the setting fund. Which is still intact, thankfully.

I am just in need of distraction... something to do while job searching and resting my knee (it's confirmed BTW that I have a partial tear in my MCL) . That's really why this occured to me. It's not expensive and it's fun. BUT widget and gene... you are probably right about it not being responsible... and frankly a waste of money.

*Sigh*

Someone needs to come up with a good bling project so I can live vicariously.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 6/6/2006 12:47:33 PM
Author: widget
This is just my opinion, but I kind of like the stone and setting ''as is'', and would probably not mess with it. I can''t help but wonder if that stone merits the trouble and expense of recutting. (I''d take $$ and put it in my ''asscher remount fund!

)

I agree with Widget I''m afraid. Kinda seems like a "spinning wheels" project meant to take your mind off the remount & job hunt. There are some things that just aren''t "fixable" no matter how much $$ & effort you throw at "the problem". Has ANYONE said that recutting would improve the stone''s appearance significantly? Or is that wishful/"magical" thinking?

And you know I''m behind most of your FABULOUS plans, Gypsy - so I don''t mean to be a bucket of ice water here! Just a teensy, tiny reality check.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/6/2006 1:11:45 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 6/6/2006 12:47:33 PM
Author: widget
This is just my opinion, but I kind of like the stone and setting 'as is', and would probably not mess with it. I can't help but wonder if that stone merits the trouble and expense of recutting. (I'd take $$ and put it in my 'asscher remount fund!

)

I agree with Widget I'm afraid. Kinda seems like a 'spinning wheels' project meant to take your mind off the remount & job hunt. There are some things that just aren't 'fixable' no matter how much $$ & effort you throw at 'the problem'. Has ANYONE said that recutting would improve the stone's appearance significantly? Or is that wishful/'magical' thinking?

And you know I'm behind most of your FABULOUS plans, Gypsy - so I don't mean to be a bucket of ice water here! Just a teensy, tiny reality check.

No. No one has said that.

I am just spinning wheels. And you all are right. A reality check is exactly what I needed. I'll email both Wink and Michael about it. It isn't worth it. I'll just leave it as is... and sometime down the road have it looked at by someone who knows and can tell me if there is anything worth the effort there.

eta: just sent off an email to both gentlemen:

THANK YOU!!

 

[PrecisionGem]

I forgot to answer your question about oiling the emerald.
Almost every emerald has some kind of treatment. THe most common are oil and opticon. The purpose is to fill into the inclusions and pores with a material that has a similar refractive index as the stone. These are accepted treatments for the most part. There are now even some people using green oil to help darken the stone. The oil doesnt last forever, and if you put it in an ultasonic cleaner, you can wash out it pretty well. A bit longer lasting treatment is Opticon. This is 2 part resign with a hardner that will fill the cracks and pores. Often the treatment is done in a vacuum chamber to help suck the fluid into the cracks and pores, or with very mild heat do increase the viscosity of the fluid.
You could try soaking the stone in some baby oil, then wiping it dry. This may help it a bit, and won''t cost you anything.

Any luck with your zircon project??

 

[Gypsy]

THANKS GENE! Great information. I quit my job on Friday and while I was willing to do this little project (which turned out to not be a little project) it would be REALLY irresponsible of me to pursue that until I get a new position. Although, I''ve expanded my color desires to anything that is NOT purple, pink or blue.... That''s about as far as things have gotten though.

 

[MINE!!]

What about just repolishing it and setting in a really nice setting?

 

[riogems]

I agree completely with Gene. Don''t mess with the emerald. Most likely your emerald was treated with oil -- and oil is not a permanent treatment -- it can dry out and then you can easily see a lot more inclusions over the years. Save your money for other projects. And good luck with your knee recovery and job search.