Help bid on a 3+ carat unheated blue Kashmir sapphire

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

I was invited to bid on an unheated 3.5 carat oval violet-blue sapphire from Kashmir.
I looked around and OMG, the few that are out there are beyond imagination expensive, even the ugly ones (see for example at thenaturalsapphirecompany's has only two gems, one windowed 1.34 carat for 15.000/ct and one 2.9 ct super-gem for 40.000/ct)
This one has an IGI report from Antwerp, see below, and, if bought, another report would be made at a 2nd big lab of the buyer's choice with deal going through only if the 2nd report says the same as IGI.
I do NOT know the current owner but I go into this with full cover from my favorite seller, hence I have no trust issues that I'd be ripped off.
Statistics, in case you can't read below: 3.52 carat, 10.10x6.88x5.78 mm, eye-clean or better, small center window (though the owner refuses to admit, Ed says so).
The reports look a bit fussy here, but my version is well visible and we can confirm their identity at IGI. In any case another report with origin must be made.


An uselessly long vid of the stone is here:

Opinions? Minimum bid is 5.000 USD/carat.
How high would you go, if, as in my case, such a gem was on your wish-list (together with a Burmese blue) and if you had a remaining budget of approx 50.000 USD for gems this year? No party-pooping please.

 

[chrono]

As pretty as it is, without the lab memo, I would have guessed it to be "just" another blue sapphire. If I am going to spend mega bucks on a Kashmiri sapphire, it'd better darned well look like one at first glance. I buy the stone, not the paper.

 

[elle_71125]

How exciting!
I'm not big on bidding on stuff. I always get caught up in the excitement and end up paying more than I normally would. I don't have any good advice for you (sorry ) but I wanted to wish you luck anyway.

 

[partgypsy]

That's a really nice size. I didn't look at the video. I wouldn't know how to price such a thing so I can't help there. I guess I would just have to go with, how excited are you about that stone in particular? Do you LOVE it? Or do you really love it just for the size? That will help you decide how much to bid on it.
Good luck!

 

[pwsg07]

I don't know the price of the Kashmir sapphire. The shape is too elongated. I only suggest to buy for the quality not the origin. I would suggest to buy a stone that looks like Kashmir sapphire. This one doesn't look like the typical Kashmir sapphire.

 

[minousbijoux]

In both the IGI report as well as the video the stone does not appear to be vivid. What Kashmir sapphires are famous for is their silk and vivid, glowing color. I'd pass as it looks like many not super well cut sapphires I've seen.

 

[valeria101]

The nicest three carat sapphire I know to be around is 50K. The previous one of fairly identical colour was also 50K.

 

[lambskin]

IMHO, it did not have that silky glow that screams its origin.

 

[doberman]

Well I do think the video shows its a beautiful stone color-wise. Is the provenance of the stone known? That might clear up the Kashmir factor. But I don't love the shape which is a little too thin for me.

 

[tkyasx78]

Personally I would pass on this one.

 

[kenny]

Kashmir?
Hmmmm.
If really from Kashmir it's worth a TON of money - but only if the most reputable gem lab for color stones states the origin is Kashmir.
That lab is AGL American Gem Lab in New York, NOT IGI, so I'm skeptical.

That it's presented with an IGI report tells me it doesn't have an ice cube's chance in Hell of really being mined in Kashmimir.
If it really was the report stating so would be from AGL, GIA or Gübelin.

Without a top lab grading report stating Kashmir origin I would not bid a dime on this.
I've worked too hard for my money to gamble when the odds are this bad.

 

[Rfisher]

What is the full cover your favorite seller is providing actually?

 

[Arcadian]

I'm with Chrono on this. Unless you just have to have it be from Kashmir, I would not be buying just because of that. Just my thoughts; It does not "look" like its from Kashmir.

 

[binay1702]

I don't know the price of the Kashmir sapphire. The shape is too elongated. I only suggest to buy for the quality not the origin. I would suggest to buy a stone that looks like Kashmir sapphire. This one doesn't look like the typical Kashmir sapphire.

Very true. Even $50K is too much to bet without GIA Certificate

 

[MollyMalone]

Kashmir?
Hmmmm.
If really from Kashmir it's worth a TON of money - but only if the most reputable gem lab for color stones states the origin is Kashmir.
That lab is AGL American Gem Lab in New York, NOT IGI, so I'm skeptical.

That it's presented with an IGI report tells me it doesn't have an ice cube's chance in Hell of really being mined in Kashmimir.
If it really was the report stating so would be from AGL, GIA or Gübelin.

Without a top lab grading report stating Kashmir origin I would not bid a dime on this.
I've worked too hard for my money to gamble when the odds are this bad. (emphases in kenny's post)

I realize this will surprise you, kenny, but it's quite possible that GIA would agree with the IGI lab that the stone is unheated with Kashmir being the likely provenance (neither lab will unequivocally declare origin). E.g., there's an eBay vendor based in Mumbai who routinely offers unheated Kashmir sapphires with both GIA and IGI reports; in fact, the listings with such dual reports almost always show that the stone was first submitted to GIA and then subsequently to IGI, so it seems that at least for some buyers in some parts of the world, IGI holds more cachet than GIA. Here's an example of a listing with the 2 reports:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-38-Carat-...d-Kashmir-Origin-Blue-Sapphire-/231444531563?

That listing also illustrates that just because an unheated sapphire has a GIA report opining the stone is from Kashmir doesn't mean it's worth big bucks. There are "duds" from every colored gem locale in the world & the stone in that eBay listing is a very distant cousin from the Kashmir sapphires widely admired for their stunning beauty:
http://ruby-sapphire.com/ruby-sapphire-collectors-guide/images/64-65.jpg

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

Thank you everybody. I'm still in the race.
I do like the color. I realize it is not a perfect stone, but pretty good and the market seems to carry higher prices if 2 labs say it is from Kashmir.
I think I prefer a brighter blue to the dark royal blue.
I would buy the gem with Ed Bristol, so he is my guarantor that I get what is advertised and don't fall for any greenhorn- (as I am) tricks.
We would get either Guebelin or GRS made here in Europe. AGL is a hassle because of shipping back into EU.

 

[Tourmaline]

Everything has a flash, so you can't see the actual color. This stone doesn't do anything for me. You could get some amazingly beautiful gems with $50,000.

 

[Seaglow]

Thank you everybody. I'm still in the race.
I do like the color. I realize it is not a perfect stone, but pretty good and the market seems to carry higher prices if 2 labs say it is from Kashmir.
I think I prefer a brighter blue to the dark royal blue.
I would buy the gem with Ed Bristol, so he is my guarantor that I get what is advertised and don't fall for any greenhorn- (as I am) tricks.
We would get either Guebelin or GRS made here in Europe. AGL is a hassle because of shipping back into EU.

Any close up photo of the stone? Curious at what price the bidding has already reached.

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

We are waiting for still-images and close ups. The seller is not exactly forthcoming, he seems to be in a seller-market, hard to get his attention, others are chewing him to close the deal at their price I assume.
Misunderstanding: I did not want to spend my 50.000 on this one stone, but it is the TOTAL budget I have set myself for the rest of the year (max!). I definitely want to buy a few other stones this year, even if this one would eat up a major part.

 

[Rfisher]

Well- sounds like you've done your research and have your bases covered for informed decision-making.
How exciting for you to bid with the big players.
Have fun and be sure to update.

 

[valeria101]

You are weighing an IPO of crumbs from the Last Supper. It does not seem to be the same market as the one for the BLUE of Heavens - that I see more of; on this side, I keep hearing of what not two decades ago would have been 'Kashmir Blue' called just about anything else - as if the word were a hazard. You may find out what that hazard is.

 

[Burmesedaze]

This colour is not unique. Ceylon or Burmese mines can produce similar stones and sizes.

My money is with Chrono, Arcadian and valeria.

Not every seller/broker however pally and however much business one may give them will have your best interests.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * I would buy the gem with Ed Bristol, so he is my guarantor that I get what is advertised and don't fall for any greenhorn- (as I am) tricks. * * *

Does this mean you and Ed are co-purchasers, and co-owners; if so, who will have custody of the stone & is there an understanding re the timing, amount and nature of payments, etc. when either of you want to make it all yours?

We are waiting for still-images and close ups. The seller is not exactly forthcoming, he seems to be in a seller-market, hard to get his attention, others are chewing him to close the deal at their price I assume. * * *

Or perhaps the seller is playing "hard to get" as a sales tactic to whet your appetite, lead you to think that there are others vying for the stone. i mean, what serious seller of a stone that he hopes will garner a minimum of $15,000 doesn't have "portraits" of the gem ready to show?

I'm guessing this would be a final sale? I honestly wouldn't spend $1500 -- let alone upwards of $15,000 -- on a stone that I could not return after having it in hand, seeing how it performs under a variety of lighting conditions. You can't count on photographic images to adequately convey reality. Even if the photographer is scrupulous about producing images that are as true-to-life as can be rendered, odds are slim to none that your computer monitor or other device's screen is color-calibrated to be in sync with the photographer's. Plus, our eyes don't all "see" colors in exactly the same ways.

 

[Rfisher]

Huh. I took Norman to mean not co-owning with Mr. Bristol, but making sure the certification/seller/shipment is legit.
I naively think Mr. Bristol would have this for himself already if it was something he wanted. Or maybe a few of the stones on his site are co-owned?
As someone already stated - eBay shows plenty of these with certs or dual certs. And Paraibas. And Burmese rubies. And Mahenge spinels.....
Seems to be that the market is bearing it. God-speed to them. You too, Norman.

 

[digdeep]

If I remember correctly there was some kind of 'shared ownership' business that was promoted by this tradesperson a while back-- years ago. It was listed on his website for a period of time and it was specifically to buy gems as investments with him as the scout who found the gems for you. It was not for your personal enjoyment but rather for investing and then selling......with him making $$ on both ends of the deal, IIRC. Norman, is this what you are doing? Aside from this recollection I'm not going further with this.....................

 

[arkieb1]

I have been wanting a small Kashmir sapphire one day myself. This one is well below either a glorious mid or royal blue colour and therefore should be cheaper and I'd also be bothered that similar coloured stones are currently coming out of Madagascar, and labs are declaring them "Kashmir" when they are not. The only way to get a true eye watering Kashmir stone, one that actual jawdropping famed "Kashmir" colour these days IMHO is out of an Antique piece.

The window would also annoy me a lot. If you have $50 000+ to spend you should be buying something that everyone will notice when it walks into a room not something that is ugly based on origin on a piece of paper.

 

[chroman]

Just for a data point.. This isn't from Kashmir, but looks way more like the ideal Kashmir blue than the above stone. And its unheated

http://www.earthstreasury.com/product/2-67-carat-royal-blue-madagascar-sapphire/

 

[T L]

It looks like a Ceylon sapphire. A premium on origin should only be paid if the stone lives up to its origin. I've seem Madagascar sapphires that look more typical Kashmir than that stone.

An AGL origin and grading quality prestige report would also be required.

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

I'm out!
I quit at $6500/ct which was 1000 under Ed's max (he had 7500 as max in mind but your collective opinion had me stop earlier)
As for the business: Ed was only holding my hand (in virtual reality that is), made sure I would make no mistake and he would have gotten a share if we closed the purchase. Details are not public.
Now, I still have the full 50.000 for other projects. I pretty much monopolize Wildfish with my purchases, so if you see anything in his stock that you would buy (forget for a while that everything can always be gotten cheaper somewhere, I don't care).
Any wish gems? Did you see this new blue Euclase? 1.57 carat or so?
But I will better start a new thread to ask about that gem.

 

[chroman]

I might hunt around to see if you can find nice material coming out of more recent mines - Ethopian emerald, Mozambique ruby, or Madagascar sapphire. Might have a better chance of finding a fantastic large piece, rather than looking at output from more established mines.