Help Evaluating Pink Tourms, Tanzanite and Rubellite

[Bojambles]

Hi,

I would like to ask some questions about these stones that I've been considering. No comments on the seller for now but I thought I've seen at least one post from a PS-er who'd purchased from them and they accept Paypal

1. 10ct Pink tourmaline pair, asking price ~US$160 / ct

They look good in the indoor and outdoor photos. I do expect them to go dark in low light conditions and can accept that. I'm also okay with the change in colour when tilted / brown tone factor in the videos that I was sent. I asked for fluorescent lighting photos but seller doesn't have fluorescent light

Would I be paying a fair price?

Also, is it cut too deep? it's about 11cm x 11cm x 7cm, so a depth of ~64%.

I've read on another seller's page (Alex Weber / PremierGems) that trillion diamonds can be cut to mid to high 30s depth ratios, which is very, very low, while still retaining their sparkle and not having a window. Wondering if the same thing might apply to trillion cut coloured stones

I know there are usual worries about photos being oversaturated, but the stones look very very vivid

Outdoors



Indoors



2. 8ct Tanzanite pair, asking price ~$260 / ct

The right stone seems to have a bit of red flash whilst the left definitely does not. The right also seems more blue and the left has a bit more grey but this was the only round pair they had and I've accepted it.

Is the pricing fair? I'm trying to use this to replace my desire for royal / cornflower blue sapphires. I know there will always be a tiny bit of purple in tanzanites but I'm fine with that

Outdoors



Indoors



Indoors showing the grey in the left stone



I've pretty much decided that I will want these 2 pairs if they are as they are - is there anything that I'm not seeing?

Also considered getting another pink tourmaline that the seller is selling as a rubellite. It looks very glowy and I've seen a few threads debating the use of "rubellite" and it seems to be more of a marketing term, although some labs will test and declare it.

This is ~4cts and ~$174 /ct

Couple of questions:

• Is there a "glow"?
• I know rubellites tend to not be clean, but is this too included?
• The seller disclosed that there is a pit on the side facets, will this affect durability?
• I also thought I saw a line running throughout the entire stone (from top LH corner to bottom middle of the stone), which the seller said is inside the stone and didn't confirm if it was running throughout

Photo showing pit on side facet



From afar




I live in a sunny country so the weather isn't a concern for me when buying tourmalines

TIA!

 

[T L]

I tend to avoid clean purplish pink tourmaline, unless the dealer really knows their rough source, because they are often irradiated to that color. The treatment is not detectable.

I also avoid tanzanite because it is extremely brittle, unless the pair is for earrings.

The third stone seems natural in color, as true rubellite tends to be very included. However you cannot be 100% sure. The photo might be enhanced because the pavilion photo looks more orangey red. What is the country of origin?

The prices seem fair. Tanzanite is all over the place these days, so make sure you shop around for the best value with a reputable vendor.

 

[Bojambles]

Thanks @T L ! Always learning something from your posts.

I guess you're avoiding clean stones because inclusions with water can't withstand heat treatment? (source: https://www.gia.edu/tourmaline-care-cleaning).

Would they similarly be unable to withstand irradiation? Also, if a pink tourmaline had obvious colour zoning (not this pair), would that also suggest that the colour is natural? Or can it be irradiated anyway

I googled up another thread on this topic and you mentioned that colour flatness and lack of secondary colours could be another hint that a stone has been irradiated?

The seller is based in Thailand and the pink tourmalines are supposed to be from Nigeria. I think the rubellite is from Afghanistan.

The tanzanites and the trillion pinks are for earrings and the rubellite would be for a pendant.

 

[T L]

Many dealers are in Thailand, but that does not mean the stone is from there. For example, I’ve bought many African stones from ThaI dealers.

I’m not sure if color zoning means that the stone is natural in color. It’s been a while since I spoke about irradiated tourmaline, so I cannot speak to the newest treatment techniques. Also, they’re fracture filling stones too, so beware of the cracked rubellite above. It could look more included over time.

If you’re not too worried about treatment, then I would consider a nice pink/red gem that was color stable and didn’t brown out. I would absolutely not go with coated stones. That is a temporary treatment, and very prone to scratching off. Tourmaline is heated too, and sometimes both heated and irradiated. Heating can sometimes increase the value as in paraiba.

Nigeria is known for producing some very beautiful hot pink tourmaline, but I’m not sure if they’re still available. Precisiongem.com had some rough from there, and he knows his sources very well.

 

[LilAlex]

All from the same vendor? The images look ridiculously saturated for moderately-priced gems.

The tanz look shallow -- at least there appears to be a very large table facet on the right one. The first photo there -- the "outdoor" one -- looks quite, uh, "enhanced," creating the flashes you are seeing.

In contrast, the rubellite looks deep. The material is not that valuable so conserving weight is usually not as high a priority as it is in, say, corundum.

I would not buy these without a good return policy. I tend not to trust purveyors of moderately-priced gems when every single thing they sell looks phenomenal.

Alternatively, they could be among the world's most vivid examples of each of those species.

 

[dk168]

My first thought when I saw the photos in the OP was that the colours are too good to be true for their price points without some form of manipulation or enhancement.

However, I could be wrong.

DK

 

[Bojambles]

Thanks so much for weighting in @T L @LilAlex @dk168
I've been caught up with work and so didn't get much chance to reply (I'm only logged in on my computer but browse as a lurker on my mobile)

 

[Bojambles]

@LilAlex ,

They do also have stones that aren't very saturated / have colour zoning / have visible inclusions, I picked these because I am picky

Unfortunately they misplaced this specific pair of tanzanites; they did tell me that when I enquired and went to search for a few days but no luck. It's a pity as I'm under the impression that that would be the pair that is the easiest to test for anything.

What sort of visual impact does a large table facet have on a stone? Does it interfere with brilliance?

On the red flash, can it be natural as well? I think I've read that red flash is only found in good colour tanzanites - is this just a marketing gimmick?

The seller accepts paypal so there is protection if I like future tanzanites from them (especially since tanzanites seem easier to test), so good to learn more about the table facet and photo enhancement

Thank you!

 

[Bojambles]

@T L

The seller is based in Thailand but gives the trillion pair's origin as Nigeria. The rubellite (which has since sold out) he says is from Afghanistan.

I really do like them but I have been reading on my mobile in between breaks at work some interesting discussions that you had with Gene and Dana had in 2012 on treated red / pink tourmaline. It was extremely informative, although the articles linked like the Jeff Graham one on Tourmaline, have timed out by now.

I guess it ultimately depends on whether I'm okay when there's a method to detect irradiation in tourmalines. I'm of the same opinion as you that I like to know exactly what I'm buying, and that there is definitely going to be a price difference when technology improves.

I don't have a thing against lab created stones or enhanced ones, just against paying the same prices as natural unenhanced ones.

So I know it's a far shot, but what other clues might I have towards checking for irradiation? You mentioned "flat colour" in your 2012 post, does that mean no shifting / no presence of secondary hues?

In that case, are the trillions showing a slight shift towards violetish indoors?

I checked with my (very reputable) local lab on the off chance that some new lab method has been discovered and he said no, but he can check for residual radiation above a certain limit, assuming that it hasn't entirely decayed(?) yet.

Or should I just go with highly flawed rubellites, since it's harder for them to have gone through the heating and irradiation process (then again, if they were that flawed, they likely weren't worth much to begin with and getting 1 stone back out of 100 might still be worthwhile for a dealer even if the other 99 exploded! )