HELP! First timer b/t WF ACA 2ct diamonds

[Nycpanda]

Hi everyone!

I am new to buying diamonds, but am a bit of a over researcher and perfectionist. I read more threads on here than I should have in bed at 12am. My boyfriend and I are in the final stages of deciding on an engagement ring and have done a lot of trials and photoshoots of the hand and ring in-person at Tiffany's (though the brand premium is too high). I think I am a bit color sensitive (prefer not a noticeable warm tone from the side) and also want a diamond that will continue to retain/increase in value, i.e., inclusions not in the center that might detract from future value. Please weigh in and let me know what you guys think is the best option given the quality and price! Or any suggestions on how to choose.

We are also looking to set it in a Vatche U-113 with 3.75 ring size. DSS is real as I originally thought 1.5 was the right size and then two weeks later went to 1.75 and now 2 ct. Hoping this is the limit given my finger is also quite small.

Our criteria:
- 2 carat
- ACA / Ideal
- EFG
- VVS1, VVS2, VS1

These are the ones that are currently in stock - WF ACA.

• 2.048 ct G VS1 ($36,666)
• 2.078 ct G VVS2 ($39,975)
• 2.028 ct F VS1 ($40,444)
• 2.01 ct E VS1 ($44,000) - Non-WF 3x Excellent, GIA cert below

Additional question: Any experience on AGS vs GIA rating? One jeweler said the risk of buying from WF is the color might end up being appraised lower, since AGS is more lenient on color. I heard that might be more historical vs present day.

WF Diamonds in increasing size order.


WF Diamonds in increasing color order.


For comparison only of the F/G next to D/E...


GIA certificate of the non-WF 2.01 E VS1 - Triple Excellent cut


@diamondseeker2006 , @CareBear - I see your names on a lot of posts I've read religiously! So would be honored if you could share your insight and expertise! <3

 

[Wink]

Hmmm , let's say I am a jeweler and have diamonds that you might like to purchase, if only I could keep you away from those (ew, nasty) Internet vendors that sell too cheaply. What could I do to turn you against the one major lab that actually has a great cut grading system?

GIA reports grade about 70% of the diamonds on the market as Excellent. What do you suppose the chances of 70% of the diamonds on the market actually being worthy of the Ideal grade of AGS? (Hint. It is a number MUCH, much lower than 70%.)

I have a rule. Never, never, EVER, never bad mouth a competitor. If you have to bad mouth to win, you are losing your integrity, whether or not you actually win the sale.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Congrats on doing your homework and due diligence. An educated consumer is the best consumer!
I personally have purchased nine ACA diamonds! I traded in an ering diamond once and upgraded diamond studs once. The other three I wear as a pendant. I clearly would never have purchased that many diamonds from anyone if I didn’t love them! I personally have never had a quarrel with the color grading of AGS - all of my diamonds are G color. As you can see from the face down position, there is not a great visual difference and probably less in the face up position. However, color and clarity can be very personal choices. If you see a difference - or if a mind clean color/clarity is meaningful to you - give it careful consideration. You have a nice lineup to choose from and on a 3.75 finger will look gorgeous!!
I like the 2.07 G VVS2. Nice high crown, clarity is over the top, and it is in the middle range. I personally (and again just saying this from my point of view) don’t see enough difference from that G to the F to justify the price difference. You will have excellent customer service with WF and the ability to upgrade if you ever want to by just spending one more dollar. Keep us posted and let us know what you think!!

 

[Nycpanda]

Hmmm , let's say I am a jeweler and have diamonds that you might like to purchase, if only I could keep you away from those (ew, nasty) Internet vendors that sell too cheaply. What could I do to turn you against the one major lab that actually has a great cut grading system?

GIA reports grade about 70% of the diamonds on the market as Excellent. What do you suppose the chances of 70% of the diamonds on the market actually being worthy of the Ideal grade of AGS? (Hint. It is a number MUCH, much lower than 70%.)

I have a rule. Never, never, EVER, never bad mouth a competitor. If you have to bad mouth to win, you are losing your integrity, whether or not you actually win the sale.

Reassuring to hear! It was definitely casting doubt on my faith in WF / AGS, after all the reviews and recommendations I read on PS.

This is my least favorite aspect of buying something that holds intangible sentimental value and in a subject that I have very little industry knowledge except for a lot of Pricescope forums and Google! Makes me feel vulnerable!

I do have to applaud WF and Tiffany’s for never pushing a sale or making me feel pressured. Only been responsive to questions and giving me the time to relax and feel how the diamond feels on me.

 

[Nycpanda]

Congrats on doing your homework and due diligence. An educated consumer is the best consumer!
I personally have purchased nine ACA diamonds! I traded in an ering diamond once and upgraded diamond studs once. The other three I wear as a pendant. I clearly would never have purchased that many diamonds from anyone if I didn’t love them! I personally have never had a quarrel with the color grading of AGS - all of my diamonds are G color. As you can see from the face down position, there is not a great visual difference and probably less in the face up position. However, color and clarity can be very personal choices. If you see a difference - or if a mind clean color/clarity is meaningful to you - give it careful consideration. You have a nice lineup to choose from and on a 3.75 finger will look gorgeous!!

Thank you for another person reassuring me I’m on the right path! I’m also a bit starstruck as I see your name on so many posts I’ve read!

It does say a lot about a company when people are loyal customers, especially when it comes to high priced goods like diamonds!

Do you find that all your G diamonds are consistent, i.e. do any of them look warmer against each other? And is it harder to tell any trace of warmth / color once the diamond is set versus against a white background, magnified, and under high LED lighting? Sometimes I think I’m driving myself crazy over this when it’s so unrealistic to see it with a naked eye.

 

[Kim N]

I love the F. The proportions are my favorite (though that's personal preference), and it looks visibly, albeit only slightly, whiter than the Gs.

 

[MissGotRocks]

No, I really don’t - and I have looked - lol! You can look back through my posts and see all of my ‘purchases’. I was fortunate enough to visit WF when I bought my 2.53 ACA. Although I really never doubted the integrity of the company, it was a real pleasure to put names to faces. They were as warm and gracious as I could have ever wanted. Friends for life!

No one has ever asked me the color of my diamonds - course they are not as into them as I am! What I hear is white and clear. Not scientific descriptors but I know what they mean. Next comes the sparkle - these ideal cut diamonds just can’t be beat! There are lots of threads here for ACA diamonds so check them all out!

 

[Lookinagain]

If you are super color sensitive, then maybe you should go with an F although for me, G is plenty white and the G EC that I have doesn't show me color at all. But I don't feel that I'm color sensitive either and actually don't like icy white. But in the photos, I do see a bit of tint in the G, maybe one, a bit more than the other. I doubt you'll see it face up, but again, if you are that color sensitive maybe you will. Only you can decide that.

 

[Nycpanda]

I love the F. The proportions are my favorite (though that's personal preference), and it looks visibly, albeit only slightly, whiter than the Gs.

thank you for the reply and looking into them! Can you elaborate on the proportions you look for?

This is all I know from Beyond4Cs. But of course I have no real life experience!

Table %	54.0% to 57.0%
Depth %	61.0% to 62.5%
Crown Angle	34.0° to 35.0°
Pavilion Angle	40.6° to 41.0°
Lower Girdles	75% to 80%
Star Facets	50% to 55%
Girdle Thickness

 

[Kim N]

thank you for the reply and looking into them! Can you elaborate on the proportions you look for?

This is all I know from Beyond4Cs. But of course I have no real life experience!

Table %	54.0% to 57.0%
Depth %	61.0% to 62.5%
Crown Angle	34.0° to 35.0°
Pavilion Angle	40.6° to 41.0°
Lower Girdles	75% to 80%
Star Facets	50% to 55%
Girdle Thickness

All ACAs will have superb proportions, so you don't need to worry about the proportions not being ideal with amazing light return. I just personally gravitate towards the smaller table and higher crown height on the F.

 

[Nycpanda]

No, I really don’t - and I have looked - lol! You can look back through my posts and see all of my ‘purchases’. I was fortunate enough to visit WF when I bought my 2.53 ACA. Although I really never doubted the integrity of the company, it was a real pleasure to put names to faces. They were as warm and gracious as I could have ever wanted. Friends for life!

No one has ever asked me the color of my diamonds - course they are not as into them as I am! What I hear is white and clear. Not scientific descriptors but I know what they mean. Next comes the sparkle - these ideal cut diamonds just can’t be beat! There are lots of threads here for ACA diamonds so check them all out!

Thank you! One more question, what does a high crown height mean in terms of appearance?

 

[Nycpanda]

All ACAs will have superb proportions, so you don't need to worry about the proportions not being ideal with amazing light return. I just personally gravitate towards the smaller table and higher crown height on the F.

Thanks @Kim N !! Can you explain what a smaller table and higher crown height mean in terms of appearance? Another jeweler I visited recommended a larger table, so the diamond looks larger… but I felt like that was misinformation to try to sell a less than ideal cut.

 

[Kim N]

Thanks @Kim N !! Can you explain what a smaller table and higher crown height mean in terms of appearance? Another jeweler I visited recommended a larger table, so the diamond looks larger… but I felt like that was misinformation to try to sell a less than ideal cut.

A smaller table and taller crown can help a diamond be more fiery. A larger table can help a diamond look brighter, which may in turn help it look larger. However, within ACA specifications, these are nuances which may only be visible if the diamonds were side-by-side and sometimes not even then. You really can't go wrong with any of your choices.

 

[Nycpanda]

A smaller table and taller crown can help a diamond be more fiery. A larger table can help a diamond look brighter, which may in turn help it look larger. However, within ACA specifications, these are nuances which may only be visible if the diamonds were side-by-side and sometimes not even then. You really can't go wrong with any of your choices.

@Kim N @MissGotRocks Brilliant! Thank you for the tip and being so helpful and responsive. Given the 2 carat will already look large on my finger, I’m definitely looking for more fire!

 

[MissGotRocks]

Thank you! One more question, what does a high crown height mean in terms of appearance?

I will echo @Kim N. Possibly a bit more fire but unless side by side, you might not see a real difference and maybe not even then. My current diamond has a 34.8 crown with a 55.9 table. I think it is a bit more ‘edgy’ but it is also larger than my first one. I would have gladly taken the proportions of my first one too so honestly can’t say one is better than the other. Color, clarity, size and price are probably more concerning to buyers as all of those factors contribute to your choice as well. Somewhere along the line you have to balance them out and size and color may be the largest factors - and of course budget - the big B!

 

[Nycpanda]

I will echo @Kim N. Possibly a bit more fire but unless side by side, you might not see a real difference and maybe not even then. My current diamond has a 34.8 crown with a 55.9 table. I think it is a bit more ‘edgy’ but it is also larger than my first one. I would have gladly taken the proportions of my first one too so honestly can’t say one is better than the other. Color, clarity, size and price are probably more concerning to buyers as all of those factors contribute to your choice as well. Somewhere along the line you have to balance them out and size and color may be the largest factors - and of course budget - the big B!

The infamous fifth C! thank you for the insights, @MissGotRocks ! I’m more at ease now after the jeweler threw me in for a loop and made me second guess WF / buying online. WF SA has been nothing but patient and super helpful, constantly sending me professional pictures of the diamonds to help me compare. I’m speaking with her tomorrow and feeling more confident knowing I’m in good hands!

Were there any things you wish you had done when purchasing your first diamond that would’ve made it easier to upgrade? Any fine print to the upgrade policy?

 

[MissGotRocks]

The infamous fifth C! thank you for the insights, @MissGotRocks ! I’m more at ease now after the jeweler threw me in for a loop and made me second guess WF / buying online. WF SA has been nothing but patient and super helpful, constantly sending me professional pictures of the diamonds to help me compare. I’m speaking with her tomorrow and feeling more confident knowing I’m in good hands!

Were there any things you wish you had done when purchasing your first diamond that would’ve made it easier to upgrade? Any fine print to the upgrade policy?

No, not at all. They have to send the diamond back to AGS for a new cert but that just validates the same stone, no damage. Takes a bit of time so it is not next day turn around. There was nothing that could have made the transaction easier or more cost efficient. Many here have done it countless times so that gives great assurance. Settings may have to be changed to accommodate a larger diamond but that is understandable. PS can be a great enabler - always lots of pretties to look at! I look at WF’s inventory all the time as I could never say never absolutely about upgrades - lol! If you are fortunate enough to get your dream diamond the first time around, there are always earrings, pendants, bracelets and right hand rings to dream about!

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

The AGS Gs will look fine on their own. If you viewed them from the side compared to GIA Ds you would see a difference. That only matters if you ever get sidestones or a diamond band to stack, in which case just match color. Come back and post pics when your ring is finished!

 

[CareBear]

If you are worried that a stone might be graded too lenient by AGS, have WF put the stone in a lineup with other stones of the same color and go with one that is on the high to mid range of that particular color. I've owned a AGS G colored stone prior and the stone was appraised as a G and later re-certified by GIA upon upgrade as a G. I've also owned a AGS I colored stone that was appraised as borderline I/J, not re-cert by GIA. That stone was traded in as an AGS I, using the original AGS certificate. If you buy and upgrade with WF, the price of the stone is guaranteed to be your purchase price regardless of what GIA might grade the color as.

A stone with a larger table will have a slightly larger diameter than a stone with a smaller table for the same carat weight. A smaller table usually means, though not always, that the stone is "taller", thus weighing more.

I have upgraded with WF before and the process is very simple. But keep in mind, if the stones are more than a ~0.2mm difference in diameter then a new head will have to be made for the setting, so I would check with WF if that can be done for the U-113.

I know that you want a stone that is VS1 or higher clarity, but for your budget, I would also consider some of the 2.2-2.3ct G VS2s that WF has in stock, especially if you are worried about DSS. An 8.5mm stone is going to look significantly larger than an 8.1mm one but you will never be able to tell VS2 from a VS1 without magnification. Also, from my experience, AGS grades clarity slightly stricter than GIA. The AGS G VS1 I mentioned earlier, was re-cert by GIA as VVS2 and my AGS I VS2 was appraised as VS1. I also own a non-round GIA VS2 stone that I feel is slighted more included than my current AGS VS2.

Good luck with your search!

 

[Nycpanda]

If you are worried that a stone might be graded too lenient by AGS, have WF put the stone in a lineup with other stones of the same color and go with one that is on the high to mid range of that particular color. I've owned a AGS G colored stone prior and the stone was appraised as a G and later re-certified by GIA upon upgrade as a G. I've also owned a AGS I colored stone that was appraised as borderline I/J, not re-cert by GIA. That stone was traded in as an AGS I, using the original AGS certificate. If you buy and upgrade with WF, the price of the stone is guaranteed to be your purchase price regardless of what GIA might grade the color as.

A stone with a larger table will have a slightly larger diameter than a stone with a smaller table for the same carat weight. A smaller table usually means, though not always, that the stone is "taller", thus weighing more.

I have upgraded with WF before and the process is very simple. But keep in mind, if the stones are more than a ~0.2mm difference in diameter then a new head will have to be made for the setting, so I would check with WF if that can be done for the U-113.

I know that you want a stone that is VS1 or higher clarity, but for your budget, I would also consider some of the 2.2-2.3ct G VS2s that WF has in stock, especially if you are worried about DSS. An 8.5mm stone is going to look significantly larger than an 8.1mm one but you will never be able to tell VS2 from a VS1 without magnification. Also, from my experience, AGS grades clarity slightly stricter than GIA. The AGS G VS1 I mentioned earlier, was re-cert by GIA as VVS2 and my AGS I VS2 was appraised as VS1. I also own a non-round GIA VS2 stone that I feel is slighted more included than my current AGS VS2.

Good luck with your search!

THANK YOU @CareBear for the detail, the practicality, and insights as someone who owns more than one and loves diamonds. This will be my and my boyfriend's first diamond purchase and obviously a big investment, so want to go in knowing as much as possible to avoid any regret if we learned about it later. The jeweler definitely just planted an easy seed of doubt on something that's hard for me to prove and to someone who relies on experts to educate me; to ultimately deter me away from WF or AGS certified stones.

I spoke to WF today and they will send over a lineup with other F color stones, but she did reassure that there was a delineation between the F and G when we asked her between those three stones. Still good just to check for my peace of mind.

The Vatche-U113 has a setting for below 2 carat and above 2 carat, so since we're now going above 2 carat, a new head would not have to be redone.

I'll definitely let you all know how it turns out!!!

 

[lulu_ma]

That 2.07 G looks like a high G to my eyes…