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Help! I just picked a stone - Having 2nd thoughts....

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DainIronfoot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
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16
Hey Everyone,

So I just bought an engagement ring for my girlfriend of soon to be 4 years, and I''m thrilled! However, I think I might have made a rash decision?! I''m not sure, I have doubts and then I don''t...

Here''s what I looked at. Prices will be for the WHOLE ring (my girlfriend loves the setting, and it''s in platinum).

Choice 1
.93 carat
H color
VS2
Good cut grade
$4000

Choice 2
1.02 carat
I color
SI2
Very good cut grade
$4250
There is one inclusion on the top of the stone, but that''s it.

Now I picked choice 2. And I''m nervous because of the SI2 clarity issue here....What do you folks think?

And would it be possible to get a stone to meet my EXACT specifications, thinking...

.95
H color
VS1
good - very good cut grade?

I''m exceptionally nervous right now. And I don''t want to mess my relationship up with my jeweler...

Thanks in advance!!!
 
The most important thing for sparkle is cut and we have no idea how these diamonds are cut. To tell, we need the table, depth, and crown and pavilion angles from the certificate to help you. A well graded SI2 can be beautiful, but it can also be full of carbon spots. It depends.

I strongly suggest you aim for ideal or excellent cut stones however, or else that 1 carat you bought might actually look quite a bit smaller because it returns less light.
 
Date: 11/21/2008 9:01:30 AM
Author: neatfreak
The most important thing for sparkle is cut and we have no idea how these diamonds are cut. To tell, we need the table, depth, and crown and pavilion angles from the certificate to help you. A well graded SI2 can be beautiful, but it can also be full of carbon spots. It depends.

I strongly suggest you aim for ideal or excellent cut stones however, or else that 1 carat you bought might actually look quite a bit smaller because it returns less light.
Click to expand...
Ditto- and welcome to Pricescope!
 
ok got those...

table 55%
depth 59.7%
crown 33.5
pavillion 40.4
 
Sooo it would probably make a pretty pendant, but might look somewhat lifeless as a ring. I personally would look again and try to stick within these parameters (courtesy of Lorelei):

Bear in mind, the combos for crown and pavillion angles at the steeper and shallower ranges may need further examination.

depth - 60 - 62 ( although you can go deeper if all else is right, suggest a max of 62.6%)

table - 54 - 57%

crown angle -shallower 34 - 35% getting a bit steeper = further eval

pavillion angle - shallower 40.5 - 40.9 or 41 getting a bit steeper= further eval

girdle thin to slightly thick, medium, slightly thin are all fine, avoid extremes such as thin to ex thick.
 
Date: 11/21/2008 9:14:52 AM
Author: neatfreak
Sooo it would probably make a pretty pendant, but might look somewhat lifeless as a ring. I personally would look again and try to stick within these parameters (courtesy of Lorelei):

Bear in mind, the combos for crown and pavillion angles at the steeper and shallower ranges may need further examination.

depth - 60 - 62 ( although you can go deeper if all else is right, suggest a max of 62.6%)

table - 54 - 57%

crown angle -shallower 34 - 35% getting a bit steeper = further eval

pavillion angle - shallower 40.6 - 40.9 or 41 getting a bit steeper= further eval

girdle thin to slightly thick, medium, slightly thin are all fine, avoid extremes such as thin to ex thick.

Also here are some cliff''s notes to guide you as to good angle combinations.

For staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

Click to expand...
 
Alright, thank you both so much for your help.

I just called the jeweler and had him hold on. He was very understanding.

So for my price range (max 4250), what specifications do you think would make the best value?

Thanks in advance, I feel A LOT better!
36.gif
 
Is that price for both ring and stone? And if with ring, what kind of ring are you looking at?
 
Date: 11/21/2008 8:59:12 AM
Author:DainIronfoot

Here's what I looked at. Prices will be for the WHOLE ring (my girlfriend loves the setting, and it's in platinum).
Click to expand...
It would appear that is the case.
 
Date: 11/21/2008 9:33:13 AM
Author: DainIronfoot
Alright, thank you both so much for your help.

I just called the jeweler and had him hold on. He was very understanding.

So for my price range (max 4250), what specifications do you think would make the best value?

Thanks in advance, I feel A LOT better!
36.gif
Click to expand...
You are welcome Dain, thats what we aim for! It depends on you, but do make cut a very high priority as that is what gives a diamond its beauty. Other than that it is up to budget and personal preference, for example a sweet spot for some is G - H colour ( GIA or AGS graded) and VS2 to SI1 clarity, but you can consider I or J colour and a verified by a trusted vendor eyeclean SI2 clarity. Platinum is more expensive than white gold and will take more of the budget, so in that case you could consider I or J colour and SI clarity in order to get the largest well cut stone you can find. What you could do if you want to stick with your jeweller, ask him to show you some AGS0 cut grade or some GIA Excellent cut grade diamonds if he carries them or can get some, then report back and we can help you from there.

But also if you see any diamonds you like at your jewellers, post the following info then we can also help you there. Look on the grading report and post ( GIA or AGS)

Type of grading report
colour, clarity and carat
depth %
table %
crown angle
pavilion angle
girdle thickness
polish and symmetry grades
diameter measurement

Then we can get a good idea.
 
Date: 11/21/2008 9:49:51 AM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 11/21/2008 8:59:12 AM
Author:DainIronfoot
Here's what I looked at. Prices will be for the WHOLE ring (my girlfriend loves the setting, and it's in platinum).
Click to expand...
It would appear that is the case.
Click to expand...
Ya, what I suspect but without knowing what kind of ring setting his looking at, can't really tell what is his budget for the stone is going to be and help him find a stone.
 
Thanks again for everyone''s assistance.

I looked on the jeweler''s website and could not find the exact setting. That being said, I have a feeling the setting is in the 1,000 to 1,300 dollar range.

So if I''m aiming to spend 4250 total, we''re looking at 3250 to 2950 on a stone?

Thoughts? suggestions?
 
Date: 11/21/2008 11:47:48 AM
Author: DainIronfoot
Thanks again for everyone's assistance.

I looked on the jeweler's website and could not find the exact setting. That being said, I have a feeling the setting is in the 1,000 to 1,300 dollar range.

So if I'm aiming to spend 4250 total, we're looking at 3250 to 2950 on a stone?

Thoughts? suggestions?
Click to expand...
What carat size were you hoping to get Dain, as close to 1 carat as possible? Are you considering looking online or would you rather stick with your jeweller? If you do want to stick with your jeweller, then as I said it might make it easier to ask him if he could show you some AGS0 or AGS1 cut grade or GIA Excellent, get the proportions of each diamond and report back here.

Alternatively this is an example of what you could get online just to show you. I don't know if this diamond is eyeclean or not, anyone considering it would have to check with the vendor.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1166841.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
 
Honestly, it does not have to be 1 carat, it would be nice but not necassary.

I could do anything from .85 to slightly over 1.

That being said, I just want it to look amazing. My girlfriend has quite small hands (ring size is 4 3/4) so I think anything within this range will look wonderful...
 
Date: 11/21/2008 12:02:24 PM
Author: DainIronfoot
Honestly, it does not have to be 1 carat, it would be nice but not necassary.

I could do anything from .85 to slightly over 1.

That being said, I just want it to look amazing. My girlfriend has quite small hands (ring size is 4 3/4) so I think anything within this range will look wonderful...
Click to expand...
Would you like us to find some diamonds from online stock as examples of what you could get? And yes that size range would look great on your GF's hand!
 
Lorelei that would be awesome!!

Thank you so much for this!
9.gif
 
Date: 11/21/2008 12:22:48 PM
Author: DainIronfoot
Lorelei that would be awesome!!

Thank you so much for this!
9.gif
Click to expand...
You are very welcome!

* goes off to search...*

Ok, any that are SI clarity Dain, you will need to check with the vendor that the diamond is eyeclean to your standards, in other words if you don't want to see any inclusions from any angle at close scrutiny, make sure you tell the vendor that so you are on the same page.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01410865

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4464/

There is one on Wink's website on this page in budget, .83 H VS2

http://www.winkjones.com/specials/diamonds.php

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1114622.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-h-color-si1-clarity_LD01426357

And there are a couple more with Blue Nile which might suit you but the webpage won't display at the moment so I can link them.
 
Thanks again for these.

So in your opinion, given my budget, is color the thing I should be least worried about among the four c''s?

It seems cut and clarity are the bit factors for all of these stones, with color and size coming in at a CLOSE second...

knowledge is power, know what I mean?!
 
Date: 11/21/2008 1:01:00 PM
Author: DainIronfoot
Thanks again for these.

So in your opinion, given my budget, is color the thing I should be least worried about among the four c's?

It seems cut and clarity are the bit factors for all of these stones, with color and size coming in at a CLOSE second...

knowledge is power, know what I mean?!
Click to expand...
Absolutely! Well cut is a high priority as no diamond will look good without it! Clarity, as low as you can go as long as the diamond is eyeclean, so on a budget SI clarity can be a good choice. Colour - that is up to personal preference and budgetary constraints as colour has a considerable influence on pricing.

So a suitable ' package' can look like this.

Cut - high priority superideal quality cut to what we call a ' nice make' of stone ( well cut but not to ultra tight superideal standards). You can check the proportions of any diamond using the Holloway Cut Advisor to eliminate lesser performers, it isn't used for selecting diamonds - aim to score 2 or below then evaluate from there. Sometimes diamonds which score over 2 can be worth consideration if the diamond has top symmetry and Idealscope images are available, and Idealscope images are very useful for all diamonds if the vendor will supply them.

In order to get the maximum carat weight for the budget -

clarity - SI1 or SI2 ( GIA or AGS graded) verified eyeclean to your standards by a trusted vendor.

colour - again GIA or AGS graded, H I or J colour even can look plenty white for many people if the cut is good and can help maximise the budget.
 
So what constitutes as "eye-clean"?

Just wondering...

Sent parameters over to the jeweler just now, hopefully he can find something for me...
 
Date: 11/21/2008 1:59:50 PM
Author: DainIronfoot
So what constitutes as 'eye-clean'?

Just wondering...

Sent parameters over to the jeweler just now, hopefully he can find something for me...
Click to expand...
Eyeclean can mean different things to different people, there are various factors that can affect this. Basically some consider a definition of eyeclean to be - no inclusions visible face up with normal eyesight in normal lighting at arms length. This does not allow for inclusions which may be visible from the side views of a diamond as clarity is graded face up. Basically an eyeclean diamond can be however you want it to be, but it is important to view any diamond away from the jewellery store lights at all angles to make sure the diamond is eyeclean to you. A diamond may be eyeclean to one person but not to another as eyesight varies as you know, and there are other factors such as the size of the diamond in question amongst others.

This is a great thread which goes into more detail.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-eye-clean-definition-interpretation-and-taste.30483/

If you do end up buying online, make your personal definition of what you consider to be an eyeclean diamond very clear to the vendor you are working with so you are both on the same page.
 
Thanks Lorelei.

I gave the jeweler the specifications to what I''m really looking for (per the previous posts on this thread) and he said he should have a few stones for me on Monday, which I think is great.

I''ll definitely post and tell you what he comes up with.

Thanks again!
 
Date: 11/21/2008 3:42:33 PM
Author: DainIronfoot
Thanks Lorelei.

I gave the jeweler the specifications to what I''m really looking for (per the previous posts on this thread) and he said he should have a few stones for me on Monday, which I think is great.

I''ll definitely post and tell you what he comes up with.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Very glad to help you Dain, post what you have on Monday or when you see them then we can go from there!
 
Hi Folks,

Figured I would give the jeweler a day to find things. Sure enough, after emailing him this morning he immediately sent me 3 options and promised to send additional options this afternoon.

To not inundate with posts, as soon as I get the additional options I''ll send them over in a total post.

Jeweler by the way is Leigh from Antique Engagement rings. Seems like a great guy so far.

Thanks all!
 
Date: 11/25/2008 1:59:57 PM
Author: DainIronfoot
Hi Folks,

Figured I would give the jeweler a day to find things. Sure enough, after emailing him this morning he immediately sent me 3 options and promised to send additional options this afternoon.

To not inundate with posts, as soon as I get the additional options I''ll send them over in a total post.

Jeweler by the way is Leigh from Antique Engagement rings. Seems like a great guy so far.

Thanks all!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the update Dain, I look forward to seeing what they come up with for you!
35.gif
 
Alright, I have all of the specs!

Report Type: GIA
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.42 - 6.46 x 3.83 mm
.94 H SI2 Excellent cut
Proportions:
Depth: 59.5%
Table: 60%
Crown Angle: 33.0°
Pavilion Angle: 41.4°
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, Feather, Cloud
This stone WITH setting is $4000

Report Type: GIA
Round Brilliant
.95 GSI2 Excellent cut
6.36 x 6.430 x 3.85
Depth 60.4%
Table 57%
Excellent Polish, Excellent Symettry
Crown 34%
Pavillion 40.8%
Fluorescence None
Clarity: Feather , Cloud
This stone WITH setting is $4600

Report Type: GIA
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.29 - 6.33 x 3.85 mm
.92 H SI1 Excellent cut
Proportions:
Depth: 61.0%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 35.0°
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, Feather, Cloud
Additional Inscription: H&A
Hearts and Arrows cut.
This stone WITH setting is $4450

There was a .85 SI2 Excellent but he just sold it. Now these all seem decent to me, but my price ceiling was at 4250 and as you can see, 2 of the options are a little higher than that. So I guess I have 2 questions...

1. What do you think of these stones? and
2. Is it possible to haggle with a jeweler to get a few hundred bucks knocked off? I''m leaning towards the $4450 one...

Thanks in advance!
 
The 4450 one looks good on the HCA.
 
Hi Dain,

2 and 3 look good! Just check with the cloud inclusions that they aren't affecting light return by causing a loss of brilliance, look at them carefully and check them out in as many different lights as you can to make sure you like the diamonds in the lighting they will be worn in.

And you can certainly try haggling...!
 
2 and 3 look good! Just check with the cloud inclusions that they aren''t affecting light return by causing a loss of brilliance, look at them carefully and check them out in as many different lights as you can to make sure you like the diamonds in the lighting they will be worn in.

And you can certainly try haggling...!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips folks!

Ok, so I should be checking for inclusions because these are SI clarity, correct?

And honestly with regard to haggling, does it really work? Say I chose the 4450 stone with setting, in reality how much could I get taken off? Do you think I could get my original price of 4250? The ironic thing is my girl friend is quite the haggler. It''s hilarious, really.
 
About the haggling, it's hard to say. Since you're working with a B&M, there may be more room in the price for haggling whereas most online vendors have slimmer profit margins. Paying with cash/bankwire may be a way to reduce the price because it saves your vendor credit card fees.

If this jeweler is someone with whom you want to build a relationship, make that clear. Your repeat business (wedding bands, gifts, etc) will be worth more in the long run than a few hundred dollars are today.

What's the worst that can happen? They say no?
 
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