Help me assess these emeralds, rubies and sapphires

[icy_jade]

Hi! I’ve been browsing various sites and these caught my eye but obviously I don’t know much about what makes a PS quality gem... so hope that CS experts can chime in. Opinions (non-expert ones) are most welcome too.

Stuff I wonder about are:

• is this a desirable color
• are the inclusions acceptable
• is heating/oiling ok, etc...
• and there is always the... is this a good/ok/value buy but I don’t know if posting value is ok or a faux pas...

Thanks for reading this and thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts!

 

[icy_jade]

Stone 1



3 carat emerald pendant. Not mentioned but I presume is treated.

 

[icy_jade]

Stone 2
Another emerald, approx 2.4 carat

 

[icy_jade]

Stone 3
A sapphire, approx 3.9 carat

 

[icy_jade]

Stone 4
Approx 1.7 carat emerald cab

 

[icy_jade]

Stone 5
Approx 1.3 carat sapphire

 

[icy_jade]

Stone 6
Whoops is a rubellite not ruby. Approx 3.6 carat

 

[icy_jade]

Stone 7
Also rubellite, approx 9.6 carat

 

[Bron357]

Hi, with emeralds 99% are oiled, this is very acceptable. Newer treatment (same idea but permanent - as the oil can dissipate over years) is Opticon, some seem totally ok with this, others - hmmmm.
Sapphires and Rubies - you really need lab reports these days as the treatments range from perfectly ok ie heat only right through to glass filling / Beryllium diffusion.
Sapphires are easier to find unheated than rubies. Rubies are more likely to have been “interfered with” due to their value - it doesn’t take too much effort to turn total rubbish into a very nice looking gem thanks to high heat with Flux and additives. As with all things, you can be ok with treatments IF they are properly disclosed AND the price you pay is reflective of the level of treatments.
And finally, synthetic rubies and sapphires can still be found in very expensive rings / antique / vintage rings.
Don’t accept verbal assurances accept accredited lab reports. It’s all well and good if they have a return / refund period but it’s just easier to buy what you want to buy upfront than muck around organizing and paying for a lab report yourself to then have to return the gem,

 

[qubitasaurus]

Inclusions are to be expected as some of them are.big stones, and types which are typically included. The problem is you really need to know the type and level of treatment, so with most of these stones you would want to secure a lab report from a reputable lab.

After that it would be hard to read the lighting in a lot of these ring pics. Without any other reference points in the picture (like someone's hand) it is really hard to tell if the lighting is super bright or not.

For example, I am looking at the reflection of the rubelite off the back of the ring shank. Either they flooded that stone with strong light, or it is quite glowy. Either way I dont think it will look exactly the same when it is on someone's hand (as the gallery is open backed and there is a fair bit of light coming from above/behind in the second and third pictures. Once someone is wearing it, some of this light will be blocked off.). I find the inability to tell disquieting, and would want more pictures. Also the girdle, current pictures are not sufficient to assess potential damage. This and the first emerald were the prettiest though -- in my opinion. The ruby looks dark, and with the sapphires you need to know whether they shift in different lighting conditions. First sapphire also may (or may not) have something strange going on with the keel line.

 

[peacechick]

I love the first emerald pendant. The size is generous and it seems quite clean? I am not sure about the cut however? It photographed a bit strange in the second photo where it looks dark instead of reflecting light. Maybe ask for more photos?

I would pass on the emerald ring—too much jardin? I don’t think the faceting would really be brilliant. It would have been better as a cab as the color is nice, and the light colored cab would have been better faceted.

The blue sapphire is pretty but not really vivid enough to stand out against all those diamonds, I think. I don’t know anything about rubellite.

Are these all pieces from an auction?

 

[icy_jade]

Hi, with emeralds 99% are oiled, this is very acceptable. Newer treatment (same idea but permanent - as the oil can dissipate over years) is Opticon, some seem totally ok with this, others - hmmmm.
Sapphires and Rubies - you really need lab reports these days as the treatments range from perfectly ok ie heat only right through to glass filling / Beryllium diffusion.
Sapphires are easier to find unheated than rubies. Rubies are more likely to have been “interfered with” due to their value - it doesn’t take too much effort to turn total rubbish into a very nice looking gem thanks to high heat with Flux and additives. As with all things, you can be ok with treatments IF they are properly disclosed AND the price you pay is reflective of the level of treatments.
And finally, synthetic rubies and sapphires can still be found in very expensive rings / antique / vintage rings.
Don’t accept verbal assurances accept accredited lab reports. It’s all well and good if they have a return / refund period but it’s just easier to buy what you want to buy upfront than muck around organizing and paying for a lab report yourself to then have to return the gem,

Thank you. I do intend to ask for certs if I go ahead... but I don’t know if whatever caught my eye is simply rubbish... still very much in the looking and learning stage.

Hmm... didn’t know about opticon so thanks. Going to do more reading after this.

So can I summarize as:

• Oiling is acceptable in emeralds?
• Heating is acceptable in rubies and sapphires?
• All other treatments are not acceptable?

But I recall reading that heating means the stone is much less valuable? Does it mean a much lower value? And how does heated vs unheated compare? Like 50% of value?

 

[icy_jade]

Inclusions are to be expected as some of them are.big stones, and types which are typically included. The problem is you really need to know the type and level of treatment, so with most of these stones you would want to secure a lab report from a reputable lab.

After that it would be hard to read the lighting in a lot of these ring pics. Without any other reference points in the picture (like someone's hand) it is really hard to tell if the lighting is super bright or not.

For example, I am looking at the reflection of the rubelite off the back of the ring shank. Either they flooded that stone with strong light, or it is quite glowy. Either way I dont think it will look exactly the same when it is on someone's hand (as the gallery is open backed and there is a fair bit of light coming from above/behind in the second and third pictures. Once someone is wearing it, some of this light will be blocked off.). I find the inability to tell disquieting, and would want more pictures. Also the girdle, current pictures are not sufficient to assess potential damage. This and the first emerald were the prettiest though -- in my opinion. The ruby looks dark, and with the sapphires you need to know whether they shift in different lighting conditions. First sapphire also may (or may not) have something strange going on with the keel line.

Thanks for pointing out re getting a hand shot. I found your analysis really helpful. Loads of things I’ve not thought about!

Can you pls elaborate re what you mean by potential damage on the girdle?

Also what is a keel line?

Sorry about the noob questions but once again thank you.

 

[icy_jade]

I love the first emerald pendant. The size is generous and it seems quite clean? I am not sure about the cut however? It photographed a bit strange in the second photo where it looks dark instead of reflecting light. Maybe ask for more photos?

I would pass on the emerald ring—too much jardin? I don’t think the faceting would really be brilliant. It would have been better as a cab as the color is nice, and the light colored cab would have been better faceted.

The blue sapphire is pretty but not really vivid enough to stand out against all those diamonds, I think. I don’t know anything about rubellite.

Are these all pieces from an auction?

Thank you.

The emerald caught my eye although I was looking out for a nice sapphire... but really don’t know much about emeralds yet as I’ve done some reading on sapphires but not emeralds... jardin refers to the inclusions? Yeah those did bug me but I’ve read that it’s really normal in emeralds? And thanks for pointing out how strange that it goes dark in the bust shot.

They are all preloved stuff... thought maybe it’s a more affordable way to learn in case I make mistakes while buying but actually I’ve found that nothing is cheap so back to just looking and learning lol.

 

[chrono]

A heated top blue sapphire is worth far more than an uheated dark drab blue, so it’s not easy to say X should be worth Y amount more than Z.

 

[prs]

Hmm... didn’t know about opticon so thanks. Going to do more reading after this.

So can I summarize as:

• Oiling is acceptable in emeralds?

Yes, but the degree of oil treatment significantly effects the value, with price decreasing as oil increases. Both AGL and GIA certs will state the level and type of oil treatment found in a stone.

 

[Burmesedaze]

Thank you.

The emerald caught my eye although I was looking out for a nice sapphire... but really don’t know much about emeralds yet as I’ve done some reading on sapphires but not emeralds... jardin refers to the inclusions? Yeah those did bug me but I’ve read that it’s really normal in emeralds? And thanks for pointing out how strange that it goes dark in the bust shot.

They are all preloved stuff... thought maybe it’s a more affordable way to learn in case I make mistakes while buying but actually I’ve found that nothing is cheap so back to just looking and learning lol.

I'd suggest seeing more IRL so hit Orchard road as often as you can! It really trains your eye the way looking on the internet and assessing them doesn't.

 

[Bron357]

I buy what I like after establishing if the asking price matches what I’m getting. There is vast differences in price ie an unheated 5 carat ruby of Burmese origin =$200,000 plus vs a 5 carat glass filled ruby $20.
An unheated 5 carat Kashmir sapphire = $50,000 plus vs a Synthethic $2.
A 5 carat plus ruby is a lot rarer to find than a 5 carat sapphire (or diamond).
When it comes to Emeralds, they are all included it’s a characteristic of the gem. Emeralds aren’t very “hardy” generally ie not really suited to an everyday ring.
It happened over 45 years ago now but I remember as if it was yesterday - as a child, a friends mother a South African lady, had the most amazing massive Emerald ring, like a 20 carat emerald. I was there the day she whacked her hand on something and the emerald literally split into two pieces. Devastating.

 

[ChaiK]

This is my experience:

1. I avoid emeralds. I don’t like oiled gems. Or resin filled. Maybe you could buy a tsavorite instead of emerald. Tsavorites are less likely to be treated and they do feature a beautiful glowing green.

2. Blue sapphires photograph well. When they arrive, they can be very different from picture. Ask for normal phone shot in cool light. And yes, a good blue heated only sapphire can command a higher price than a mediocre unheated blue one.

3. Rubellites, red ones, are now assumed to be irradiated. Difficult to detect and GIA, since it cannot be sure, can certify that the colour origin is undeterminable. But rubellites are great fun. Huge and red and have a good glow in low lighting, well, for mine, at least.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I'd suggest seeing more IRL so hit Orchard road as often as you can! It really trains your eye the way looking on the internet and assessing them doesn't.

I second this @icy_jade ! Go to that place outside Tang's as a start! They had lab reports for most of their stuff I recall! Expensive as heck but good to look at and assess as Burmesedaze suggests.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Thanks for pointing out re getting a hand shot. I found your analysis really helpful. Loads of things I’ve not thought about!

Can you pls elaborate re what you mean by potential damage on the girdle?

Also what is a keel line?

Sorry about the noob questions but once again thank you.

If you zoom in on the girdle in the third picture, it looks like there is a bunch of small flea bites (or possibly lint) arround the top right prong.

With the sapphire, it looks like there is a dark line in the centre and the fascets on either side look dullish. I would be guessing this last tier of fascets is cut a little too shallow. Ofcourse the photos arent great in either of these cases so all of this is inference.
I also agree with peacechick that the colour isnt spectacular. Since sapphires all shift, if that is its best then it may not wow in a lot of lighting.

 

[Anne111]

Wow! That's a task one could base a book on: 'A short history of Gem- and Jewelry-Collecting in four objects' like that book from the director of the so-on-so-museum: 'The world in hundred objects.'
Seriously though, I can't imagine doing any useful comparison and evaluation without price-tags attached. I know its not all about money but ...
Do the rules prohibit naming prices? I thought not.

 

[Sunstorm]

Ok I can only comment in general terms.

When it comes to value in CS color is No.1. and then color and color. This is especially true in the case of emeralds, which are naturally highly included stones.

Jardin is totally acceptable and considering how blown up these images are, both stones are actually quite clean with 1 being extremely clean, possibly indicating absence of treatment.

Brilliance is not something you want in an emerald although transparency yes. You do want this deep oily muted fire and the priced gota de aceite effect when you can.

Problem is emeralds are almost impossible to photograph-. Their color and fire just won´t show up like IRL. Then some may photoshop the photos so really you need a great return policy and time to be able to take/send the pieces to a recommended appraiser.

Both 1 and 2 could be good candidates for purchase depending on price of course and whether real life color actually matches the color on the photos. I loved the life and clarity of 1 but again cannot advice specifically and also you really have to seem them with your own eyes to know more.

Issues like doublets, synths, well based on the photos the emeralds are not but again this is why you will need an appraiser. A report helps, however, CS do not often get reports on them and even with one I would still use an appraiser.

In sapphires and rubies heating is accepted, however, I prefer them untreated just like my emeralds. In fact oiling in an emerald is more accepted and reduces value to a lesser degree than heating does in rubies and sapphires. It is ok but there is a huge difference in value when it comes to heating. This is something you should consider.

 

[Lovinggems]

http://www.lotusgemology.com/index....ruby-sapphire-a-gemologist-s-guide-order-page

https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Gem-Trade-Connoisseurs-Gemstones/dp/0972822321

http://www.lotusgemology.com/index....-ruby-sapphire-a-collector-s-guide-order-page



Maybe these books will help? They are on my wish list.

@slksapphire her sapphire ring is beyond gorgeous

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ruby-sapphire-book-a-collectors-guide.198812/

 

[Sunstorm]

If OP wants to read books on the subject then Ron Ringsrud´s book on emeralds is a must read:

http://www.emeraldpassion.com/index.htm

But no book will give someone the professional training and experience required to accurately assess the value of a stone, hence a report is a plus (can be done later though in CS not necessary) BUT must have a great return policy and make sale contingent on claims verified by report and/or appraisal done by a renown appraiser like the ones recommended here.

 

[Lovinggems]

If I’m buying a high value stone I’ll definitely have the stone examined by AGL as a first preference.

Those books showcase the best stones (plus other info) so I think they’re helpful learning material. Train your eyes to look for pretty stuff .

If possible, I’ll go to large gem shows and look at all the high end low end stuff and take the time to shop around and learn before jumping into a large purchase. I agree though it’s hard to know if the gemstone is a good buy and if it’s a good looking specimen unless you shop around a lot and learn, it may take you a long time before you find something appropriate.

Also colour is a personal preference so you might like something that is not at the top end so all the better.

I think it’s hard to assess a gem by photos they can look very different in real life, so yes a good return policy is necessary.

Photo wise I think stones 1 and 6 have the potential to be nice looking stones. The others look a bit desaturated. Overall I’ll keep on looking unless they’re a real bargain.

 

[icy_jade]

Thank you all for responding! I’ll go thru all your good advice slowly but first...

Stone 1 - $3.3k


Stone 2 - $8.2k


Stone 3 - $6.5k


Stone 4 - $1.9k


Stone 5 - $1.9k


Stone 6 - $1.7k


Stone 7 - $2.5k

 

[icy_jade]

A heated top blue sapphire is worth far more than an uheated dark drab blue, so it’s not easy to say X should be worth Y amount more than Z.

I understand. It’s just really hard to get a sense of what is reasonable pricing...

Yes, but the degree of oil treatment significantly effects the value, with price decreasing as oil increases. Both AGL and GIA certs will state the level and type of oil treatment found in a stone.

Oh... I didn’t know that so thanks! I suspect if I buy locally or from the region the regional labs won’t have such info though.

I'd suggest seeing more IRL so hit Orchard road as often as you can! It really trains your eye the way looking on the internet and assessing them doesn't.

Right now they all look pretty good to me most of the time? So long as the color is saturated, the cut is ok they mostly look ok to me. It’s not like I haven’t seen them at shows, I just don’t know what is ‘good’. At least I can see window/extinction in stones now so that’s some progress vs when I first started...

Any tips on what exactly to look out for?

It’s like when I go to Asiatique they all look good to me. But obviously some jump out at me more than others like the two on my middle finger, and maybe the red garnet (?) on my 2nd.

 

[icy_jade]

I buy what I like after establishing if the asking price matches what I’m getting. There is vast differences in price ie an unheated 5 carat ruby of Burmese origin =$200,000 plus vs a 5 carat glass filled ruby $20.
An unheated 5 carat Kashmir sapphire = $50,000 plus vs a Synthethic $2.
A 5 carat plus ruby is a lot rarer to find than a 5 carat sapphire (or diamond).
When it comes to Emeralds, they are all included it’s a characteristic of the gem. Emeralds aren’t very “hardy” generally ie not really suited to an everyday ring.
It happened over 45 years ago now but I remember as if it was yesterday - as a child, a friends mother a South African lady, had the most amazing massive Emerald ring, like a 20 carat emerald. I was there the day she whacked her hand on something and the emerald literally split into two pieces. Devastating.

Bron you have the best stories! Omg I can imagine it must be devastating. 20 ct! Wow.

Ya still trying to find my feet in terms of pricing... I don’t have any market sense now which means I need to shop more? Or is there some site I can bookmark to check the approx per carat prices I should expect to pay?

This is my experience:

1. I avoid emeralds. I don’t like oiled gems. Or resin filled. Maybe you could buy a tsavorite instead of emerald. Tsavorites are less likely to be treated and they do feature a beautiful glowing green.

2. Blue sapphires photograph well. When they arrive, they can be very different from picture. Ask for normal phone shot in cool light. And yes, a good blue heated only sapphire can command a higher price than a mediocre unheated blue one.

3. Rubellites, red ones, are now assumed to be irradiated. Difficult to detect and GIA, since it cannot be sure, can certify that the colour origin is undeterminable. But rubellites are great fun. Huge and red and have a good glow in low lighting, well, for mine, at least.

Ideally I guess I want one of each (emerald and tsavorite) but subject to my wallet being able to take the heat!

But since I hardly have anything I think I’ll just get whatever stone that is nice n pops up first... hmm after all the advice I conclude I have lots of reading/studying ahead for me...

 

[icy_jade]

I second this @icy_jade ! Go to that place outside Tang's as a start! They had lab reports for most of their stuff I recall! Expensive as heck but good to look at and assess as Burmesedaze suggests.

I hate that store. But yeah I’ll go to Lucky Plaza and Far East n look around if I have time. If not there is always the twice yearly fairs.

If you zoom in on the girdle in the third picture, it looks like there is a bunch of small flea bites (or possibly lint) arround the top right prong.

With the sapphire, it looks like there is a dark line in the centre and the fascets on either side look dullish. I would be guessing this last tier of fascets is cut a little too shallow. Ofcourse the photos arent great in either of these cases so all of this is inference.
I also agree with peacechick that the colour isnt spectacular. Since sapphires all shift, if that is its best then it may not wow in a lot of lighting.

Oh I see what you mean. Hmm...
I really like cornflower blue so I guess best to buy in person at the local shows rather than online...

Wow! That's a task one could base a book on: 'A short history of Gem- and Jewelry-Collecting in four objects' like that book from the director of the so-on-so-museum: 'The world in hundred objects.'
Seriously though, I can't imagine doing any useful comparison and evaluation without price-tags attached. I know its not all about money but ...
Do the rules prohibit naming prices? I thought not.

Seriously I don’t know where to start that’s why I’m asking. I can read till the cows come home about what is desirable but that’s of no help unless I can apply that to gems I see online which is really why I’m posting and asking.

Anyway I want to know/learn whether the gems are any good, and not to buy so I didn’t see why price matters so much.