Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND BIC

[nauticalx]

Hey folks:

Need your help, please. Looking for guidance on this large stone purchase. Looking for a round 3 to 3.5 CT. In particular, want a Brilliant Ideal Cut because I want the stone to reflect WHITE light (brilliance) and not FIRE (COLORED) light and with MAXIMUM SCINTILLATION.

I'm aware that BIC calls for shallow crown angles (less than 32.5 degrees).

However, how do I maximize scintillance? HCA seems to rate this but how does it measure scintillance performance?
I suspect it's the pavilion angle and pavilion depth. Am I correct?
Do I need short-thick pavilions for maximum scintillation? What pavilion angle and pavilion depth will give me the best scintillation for a BIC diamond?

Help me out. I promise I'll post pics once I have this bad boy! Thanks!!

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I wonder if you can afford a solasfera if you are looking for fast movement.

 

[nauticalx]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

had never heard of solasfera, just looked it up. appears to be a little too busy. would rather have max scintillation but not necessarily maximum movement. i.e just very strong flashes, not necessarily lots of flashes.

 

[heididdl]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

Stick with a AGS ideal cut and you should be fine Ill see i I can find a nice one.

here is one http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/3.07-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-280479

 

[nauticalx]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

Stick with a AGS ideal cut and you should be fine Ill see i I can find a nice one.

here is one http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/3.07-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-280479

that looks great! however, does the ags ideal not balance brilliance and fire? i absolutely hate fire and want nothing to do with it unless it can't be helped. is there a way to weed out the fire while enhancing white and scintillation or is that not possible?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I am not sure what you are thinking fire looks like, but it doesn't just happen unless you are waving the ring in sunlight or something!

Go with an ideal cut and you'll be fine. High crowns and tiny tables usually mean more fire, so you need to avoid old European cuts.

This is an excellent one:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3059429.htm ($60,221 with pricescope/wire pmt discounts)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3009309.htm ($54,204 " )

I wouldn't do SI1 in a 3 ct stone.

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I wonder if what the O/P is describing is white light return as brightness/brilliance? So a possible candidate for a 60/60 stone rather than a Ideal cut with a H & A pattern and a smaller table.... Otherwise you are after a Ideal cut stone and you are confusing the term "fire" with something else? Otherwise I am confused by your post, you don't get brilliance and scintillation in a diamond without some coloured light return and that is more dependant on the type of light you are under like sunlight for example than the cut of the diamond.

 

[Andelain]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

It'll also help if you stick to a colorless (D-F) stone.

 

[nauticalx]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I wonder if what the O/P is describing is white light return as brightness/brilliance? So a possible candidate for a 60/60 stone rather than a Ideal cut with a H & A pattern and a smaller table.... Otherwise you are after a Ideal cut stone and you are confusing the term "fire" with something else? Otherwise I am confused by your post, you don't get brilliance and scintillation in a diamond without some coloured light return and that is more dependant on the type of light you are under like sunlight for example than the cut of the diamond.

Yes, absolutely. I would like white light return and absolutely hate colored light return. Looking to minimize the return of rainbow colors from the stone under most lights and maximize the white lights from the stone.

What is a 60/60 stone and is that the best way to maximize white light and minimize colored light?

 

[ecf8503]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

[quote="nauticalx]Yes, absolutely. I would like white light return and absolutely hate colored light return. Looking to minimize the return of rainbow colors from the stone under most lights and maximize the white lights from the stone.

What is a 60/60 stone and is that the best way to maximize white light and minimize colored light?[/quote]

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond

60/60's tend to have lower crown angles, which minimizes colored light return. And larger tables which assists in that as well.

 

[msop04]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I wonder if what the O/P is describing is white light return as brightness/brilliance? So a possible candidate for a 60/60 stone rather than a Ideal cut with a H & A pattern and a smaller table.... Otherwise you are after a Ideal cut stone and you are confusing the term "fire" with something else? Otherwise I am confused by your post, you don't get brilliance and scintillation in a diamond without some coloured light return and that is more dependant on the type of light you are under like sunlight for example than the cut of the diamond.

Yes, absolutely. I would like white light return and absolutely hate colored light return. Looking to minimize the return of rainbow colors from the stone under most lights and maximize the white lights from the stone.

What is a 60/60 stone and is that the best way to maximize white light and minimize colored light?

A 60/60 stone is one that the depth and table are closer to 60 instead of 53-58% for table and 58-62% for total depth.

Regardless of what type stone you choose (Ideal or more 60/60), a diamond has facets working as dozens of little mirrors that reflect off of each other as well as their surroundings. So, unless you plan on viewing the stone in a stark white room with perfectly white light, wear all white, as well as covering everything - your body included - in all white... you're going to see some colored light return. (I'm being a bit dramatic, of course, as this is ridiculous) Diamonds are little mirrors -- they can't help it... it's what they do.

I agree that the more colorless you go, the less colored light return you'll see... so D-F.

 

[msop04]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

[quote="nauticalx]What is a 60/60 stone and is that the best way to maximize white light and minimize colored light?

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond

60/60's tend to have lower crown angles, which minimizes colored light return. And larger tables which assists in that as well.[/quote][/quote]

AHHHH... good to know the science behind it! Thanks, ecf!

 

[msop04]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

OP, I don't know what your budget is, but here are some you may want to consider (G-H):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...arat-g-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-269256 $72,310

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-228937 $73,480

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-239834 $63,770 **this is my favorite (HCA 1.7)

60/60: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-213680 $79,710 (HCA 2.3)

 

[Tourmaline]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I'll weigh in on this, because my diamond is in the BIC range (has a low crown angle). It gets a 1.6 using the HCA.

My stone has good light return in most lighting conditions, and it has fire, but it doesn't have the scintillation I've seen in videos. That could definitely be an effect of lighting, though. Basically, my stone cut is not optimized for fire, but there is fire. If you are thinking that fire makes it looks like a simulant or something, it doesn't...the fire contains different colors in a diamond than in a simulant. Cubic zirconia, for example, throws off mostly red, yellow and green fire, whereas diamonds throw off blue, purple, yellow (and also the other colors, but they don't seem as "angry" or something).

One weird thing about my stone (which is an L color, which might enter into this) is that it takes on (reflects) the color of the walls of the room it's in and can vary tremendously in color (pink, blue, yellow, white) - the whole stone.

My diamond weighs 5.01 carats, so the flashes are large. I like it best in diffuse white light (like outside on an overcast day).

Good luck in your search!

 

[nauticalx]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

Those are some awesome diamonds posted above. I was reading the following pages and was wondering whether I need to focus on getting one with large "star facets" (greater than 55%) as this seems to be, at least according to these pages, very important in scintillaton. Also, wondering if I should look for longer lower girdle facets (76%+ range) as this is also claimed to be important in scintillation.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Articles/MinorFacets/

http://www.proposalring.com/tutCutPropMinor.htm

Wanted to see what the thoughts were on these claims.

 

[pyramid]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I remember reading on pricescope, back when it was mostly gemmologists and experts answering posts, before they
got more censored now and cannot discuss other jewellers diamonds, that they believed Tiffany & Co diamonds were
geared more toward brilliance and white light return than colored light return. I do not know though what proportions
they were cut too or if it was to do with the rough.

I remember it said too that Tiffany got the first pick of rough from debeers so their diamonds had less crystal deformations such as graining from twinned crystals or macles and were usually diamonds cut from octahedra, they then rejected what they didn't want and it went to other dealers. I remember one of the experts saying that Tiffany would not know how to cut diamonds from rough which had graining and this was why they only used the high quality rough.

 

[msop04]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I remember reading on pricescope, back when it was mostly gemmologists and experts answering posts, before they
got more censored now and cannot discuss other jewellers diamonds, that they believed Tiffany & Co diamonds were
geared more toward brilliance and white light return than colored light return. I do not know though what proportions
they were cut too or if it was to do with the rough.

I remember it said too that Tiffany got the first pick of rough from debeers so their diamonds had less crystal deformations such as graining from twinned crystals or macles and were usually diamonds cut from octahedra, they then rejected what they didn't want and it went to other dealers. I remember one of the experts saying that Tiffany would not know how to cut diamonds from rough which had graining and this was why they only used the high quality rough.

This is very interesting... I've read that most Tiffany stones are cut very deep, facing up smaller than their carat weights typically would. Hmmm... I wonder if Tiffany still gets first dibs? It doesn't seem like they worry too much about the cut of their stones, as they tend to emphasize color and clarity as the sole selling points... well, other than it's "Tiffany." Also, I've read that they don't like to give out too much info on their stones (other than ct/color/clarity), as several have said it could be difficult to obtain their certs -- esp if the stone in question had an actual GIA/AGS cert in addition to the in-house Tiffany grading.

Anyway, I digress... but I hope someone will chime in on this -- pretty interesting!

 

[nauticalx]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

I'll weigh in on this, because my diamond is in the BIC range (has a low crown angle). It gets a 1.6 using the HCA.

My stone has good light return in most lighting conditions, and it has fire, but it doesn't have the scintillation I've seen in videos. That could definitely be an effect of lighting, though. Basically, my stone cut is not optimized for fire, but there is fire. If you are thinking that fire makes it looks like a simulant or something, it doesn't...the fire contains different colors in a diamond than in a simulant. Cubic zirconia, for example, throws off mostly red, yellow and green fire, whereas diamonds throw off blue, purple, yellow (and also the other colors, but they don't seem as "angry" or something).

One weird thing about my stone (which is an L color, which might enter into this) is that it takes on (reflects) the color of the walls of the room it's in and can vary tremendously in color (pink, blue, yellow, white) - the whole stone.

My diamond weighs 5.01 carats, so the flashes are large. I like it best in diffuse white light (like outside on an overcast day).

Good luck in your search!

where did you get your stone and how can I get one like it? do you mind sending me your crown angle and other measurements so I can use that as a guide? going outside of the "ideal cut" realm, it would be nice to compare possible stones with what's worked for you. thanks!

 

[Tourmaline]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

where did you get your stone and how can I get one like it? do you mind sending me your crown angle and other measurements so I can use that as a guide? going outside of the "ideal cut" realm, it would be nice to compare possible stones with what's worked for you. thanks!

I sure wish I could give contact info so you could contact me privately. My diamond was sourced by a local jeweler, so not through a vendor. I know that a lot of PSers have very specific parameters for what constitutes a well-cut diamond, and I am reluctant to post all the specs of my diamond. It's 5.01cts and 11.5mm in diameter, with all of the shortness in the crown (because of the low angle). Because the table isn't too big, it has enough depth in the crown even though it's pretty darn spready. Good luck!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

You do not want to go outside the ideal cut realm! A stone that is not well cut certainly isn't going to perform as well as an ideal cut!

I have had several classic H&A stones with the 34.5/40.8 angles, and they appear bright and white! I am sorry but it just isn't anything like what you are talking about! I do not see colors reflecting off those stones. They look like white balls on my ears (and on my hand when I had one in a ring)!

I do recommend that you stay in the 57-59 range for the table. That is all you need to look for within ideal cut stones.

 

[pixgirl]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

Just curious and you can say just because if it is the truth, but why do you so dislike fire and flashes of color?

 

[heididdl]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

Just curious and you can say just because if it is the truth, but why do you so dislike fire and flashes of color?

DItto Whats the point of owning a diamond if you dont like fire and flash . It makes diamonds diamonds

 

[nauticalx]

Re: Help me get this big rock right! Help on a 3-3.5 CT RND

Just curious and you can say just because if it is the truth, but why do you so dislike fire and flashes of color?

DItto Whats the point of owning a diamond if you dont like fire and flash . It makes diamonds diamonds

personal preference...something about the rainbow colors reflecting off the stone strike me as undesired, especially when compared to white light. i know a lot feel the other way but that's my preference just how it looks- cleaner and crisper with the white light.