help me pick the best spinel

[dm-smith]

can anyone comment on each stone in here?
http://www.swalagemtraders.com/gemstone/spinel #1012319
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?-2068816179
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-line-AG...7821?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item1c424589dd

I am planning to visit one of the store (which ever store that has the best stone). btw, do you know where's swala store? I tried to contact them, but I have not got any reply\

I'm open to other suggestions

 

[chrono]

Please define what is best to you. Best as in Trade/market preferred?
Are you looking for red, pink or pink/red spinel?

Swala is located in Tanzania but welcomes customers to their shop. A safari trip to coincide with the gem buying trip will be worthwhile.
Multicolour is located in Bangkok, Thailand.

The Wilds spinel is my top pick for colour, shape and cutting.
Other questions I would ask the vendors:
1. Does the stone react to UV (red/pink fluoro is a good thing in this case)
2. Does it colour shift to become muddy or orangish under fluorescent lights and how much does it shift?
3. I would request a video first, before making the trip to see the stone.

 

[dm-smith]

Please define what is best to you. Best as in Trade/market preferred?
Are you looking for red, pink or pink/red spinel?

Swala is located in Tanzania but welcomes customers to their shop. A safari trip to coincide with the gem buying trip will be worthwhile.
Multicolour is located in Bangkok, Thailand.

The Wilds spinel is my top pick for colour, shape and cutting.
Other questions I would ask the vendors:
1. Does the stone react to UV (red/pink fluoro is a good thing in this case)
2. Does it colour shift to become muddy or orangish under fluorescent lights and how much does it shift?
3. I would request a video first, before making the trip to see the stone.

wow, tanzania? it's definitely a no! I'm too old for that trip I am looking for a red spinel, but I'm not sure which one are preferred by the market. I think a spinel with a constant color in any light and light intensity is the best

 

[chrono]

wow, tanzania? it's definitely a no! I'm too old for that trip I am looking for a red spinel, but I'm not sure which one are preferred by the market. I think a spinel with a constant color in any light and light intensity is the best

Definitely. Reds are more desired than pinks but never ever sacrifice on the saturation if trying to choose between a less saturated red and a hot HOT saturated pink, IMHO. When it comes to Mahenges though, pure reds are rare so expect to see some pink mixed mixed the red.

 

[GregS]

With your budget and desire for a pure red I'd be looking at top color Rubies.

 

[dm-smith]

With your budget and desire for a pure red I'd be looking at top color Rubies.

I think it's really hard to find an eye clean with the same dimension.

 

[GregS]

With your budget and desire for a pure red I'd be looking at top color Rubies.

I think it's really hard to find an eye clean with the same dimension.

Yes it is, you made no mention of clarity or size though, just color.

 

[T L]

Maybe instead of focusing on the largest spinels out there, you should focus on better color, despite the size.

The Wild gems one is an orangy red, and who knows what it looks like in various lighting, as they can go more brownish.

The MC.com isn't very saturated

The Swala one is very purple, which isn't as desirable in red spinel.

Do all three also have strong fluorescence? That's something else you need to ask.

Sometimes, the best stones, are not necessarily the largest.

 

[minousbijoux]

What is your purpose in acquiring this stone? To get the best specimen in the biggest size? To find a certain shape for a purpose like a pendant? To find the perfect color that makes your heart flutter?

 

[dm-smith]

I just want something similar to my pigeon blood ruby, but bigger And I don't think garnet suitable for everyday use.

 

[chrono]

Elvis,
The PS forum rules state that Trade members cannot comment on another Trade member's items for sale.
https://www.pricescope.com/content/forum-policies
f. Trade members must not promote nor condemn other businesses (unless there are evidences of misconduct or illegal practices). This includes promoting your own business through posting of your own jewelry, except in specific moderator-approved threads.
g. Please refrain from commenting on other vendor products unless there is obvious misinformation.

 

[chrono]

I am sorry but I do not make the forum rules. If you have any concerns or need further clarification, you should contact Ella, the moderator. Just for your information, I am not the one who reported you.

 

[T L]

I just want something similar to my pigeon blood ruby, but bigger And I don't think garnet suitable for everyday use.

#1, you don't know much about rubies or garnets if you think garnets are ever going to be "pigeon blood red." They're never ever the saturation of the red of a fine ruby.

#2, Do you know what a top quality "pigeon blood red" ruby even looks like?

I'm not trying to be rude, but some of your comments do not make sense.

 

[pregcurious]

I just want something similar to my pigeon blood ruby, but bigger And I don't think garnet suitable for everyday use.

Hi dm-smith, how do you define pigeon blood red? Can you provide us with a picture?

The MC stone is not cut well, compared to the others. I also don't think the WILDS stone is very saturated either, although it looks pinkish and not orangish on my monitor. At these sizes, you should be able to find a stone that has saturated color. I agree with TL about the Swala stone being too purple. I would not call that a red spinel.

Have you had a chance to see red spinels in person, under different light? I ask because top spinels can look different from top rubies. Top spinels usually do not have a silky glow, and I think a neutral red is considered trade ideal in spinels. Can someone correct me here if I am wrong?

Preg

 

[Marlow]

I just want something similar to my pigeon blood ruby, but bigger And I don't think garnet suitable for everyday use.

Hi dm-smith, how do you define pigeon blood red? Can you provide us with a picture?

The MC stone is not cut well, compared to the others. I also don't think the WILDS stone is very saturated either, although it looks pinkish and not orangish on my monitor. At these sizes, you should be able to find a stone that has saturated color. I agree with TL about the Swala stone being too purple. I would not call that a red spinel.

Have you had a chance to see red spinels in person, under different light? I ask because top spinels can look different from top rubies. Top spinels usually do not have a silky glow, and I think a neutral red is considered trade ideal in spinels. Can someone correct me here if I am wrong?

Preg

In my opinion you are right!!

Otherwise you need a knife and a pidgeon

NOOOOO

 

[pregcurious]

Here's a stone that to me look likes like a great spinel, but would not be considered a great ruby. It is listed as a red sapphire (it is BE treated).

The price is really good because it is BE treated, but even it were not, the color is nice. However, see how the color does not have the depth of a top ruby, and looks watery (lacks saturation)? I think this is what TL meant. Yet, this would be considered a great color for a spinel. Could it be more saturated for a spinel, yes, but it's still really good! The red is not "pigeon blood" by anyone's standard, I don't think, but it does look like a neutral red (on my computer screen). Top rubies usually are a little pinkish.

I have not seen a spinel that has the depth of color of a ruby perform well because spinels tend to black out (unless they are Mahenge, but they are usually hot pink, with some exceptions). Rubies have silk, and it allows them to have a depth of color, and still glow because the silk diffuses the light within the stone.

I personally like both red spinels and rubies, but I cannot afford what I consider a top ruby, so I have stayed away from them. I love the spinel in my avatar, but it's not a ruby. To me, it's like comparing apples and oranges. I like apples, and I like oranges

http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/single/sapphire/ysa839aa/&1244716636

 

[chrono]

Pregcurious,
I agree; the sapphire posted looks watery to me too. It's not a nice ruby colour but a nice spinel colour.

More pretty pictures and videos from GIA (I can't resist more eye candy). I do wish there were more red spinel pictures though.
http://www.gia.edu/ruby-quality-factor
http://www.gia.edu/spinel-quality-factor

 

[pregcurious]

Here's what I would consider a top red spinel. At 9.52 carats, it has 1) the size that makes it very expensive and 2) that allows it to be very saturated. See how it's not too dark in tone (blackish), and has great crystal (clarity)? It is also on the pink side, which makes sense because it is Tanzanian. If it is has good fluor like the ideal Mahenge, it must glow red in the sun. Drool.

It's very difficult to find a spinel that has this rich color. It's a ring made by Jeffrey Bilgore.
http://www.cijintl.com/Highlights-355-Articles%20on%20Colored%20Stones.html

Here's another red spinel, from Nomad, that is more of a neutral red. I bet that it shifts slightly orange, or slightly pink depending on the light. My stone is closer to this color, which is considered a great color for a Burmese stone. The stone from Nomad, however is from Tanzania. I wonder what the stone looks like in hand.

After seeing so many red spinels, I have an idea in my mind of what Burmese and Tanzanian stones look like, but it goes to show, a place can produce what it produces. That said, I have not seen a hot pink/red stone from Burma. The Burmese stones I have seen all are more neutral, or if the have a purplish secondary color, the secondary is purpleish and not pinkish like the Tanzanian stones. Does that make sense. This is probably too much detail.

 

[pregcurious]

Nice links Chrono!

When I think of spinels, I think of three flavors: 1) Burmese red (neutral to me), 2) Mahenge hot pink/red, and 3) flame spinel (hot orange/red). That said, any origin can produce other colors, but I am just stating these categories because they typify what that region is known for and/or a category of top spinel color.

1) Burmese: See how the top Burmese stones in the GIA link that Chrono posted are more orange than the top Mahenge/Tanzanian stones (like in the Jeff Bilgore ring)? That is considered top Burmese color. It is the color people have thought of when thinking "top spinel" through the ages! To me, it is "stoplight red", but again, that is a subjective term because 1) stoplights have different color red and 2) what I think is stoplight red is not what someone else thinks is stoplight red. With the ban on Burmese stones, it is nearly impossible to find top Burmese stones anymore in the US.

2) Mahenge/Tanzanian: The Jeffrey Bilgore ring has a great example of a top red spinel that has a pink secondary color. I think most people on PS have a preference for that pink secondary. You will find that people on Pricescope are much more familiar with Tanzanian spinels, over Burmese. (Vietnam and Sri Lanka also produce nice spinels.) The quality I love about top Mahenge stones is that they have very strong fluorescence. Burmese stones have fluoresence also, but my impression is that most top Burmese stones do no have as strong fluor as a top stones labeled Mahenge, Tanzania.

3) Flame spinel: There's also a third, well known color for spinels, called a flame spinel. It is a hot red color with a strong orange secondary color. In 2012, this top flame spinel was for sale from Vietnam. I inquired after it to purchase it, but decided not to because I prioritized another gem over it. Look how saturated it is! Whoever bought it definitely scored one of the best spinels that year.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/unusual-this-red-spinel.170058/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/unusual-this-red-spinel.170058/[/URL]


4) Finally, there are many other reddish/pinkish/orangish colors in spinel from Burma, Tanzania, Vietnam and Sri Lanka.

Why is it important to be able to identify a top spinel? Because that will help you determine how a spinel you see should be priced.

If that is trade ideal (any of the colors posted on this post thus far), you will pay a high price. In any hue, a top stone will have strong saturation, fluorescence, and good crystal (important for a spinel but not for a ruby).

Stones that become a black hole in sunlight (because they have no fluor) should be avoided. (That said, medium dark stones tend to get darker in sunlight, and that is fine, as long as the do not get overly dark.) You can avoid this darkening by getting a good ruby with silk. Rubies can also hold more color without blacking out, and that's why, rubies are amazing and should command the price that they do.

Still, if you go with a spinel, you should buy what you like. I have a red spinel from Burma, and purple/pink from Sri Lanka. Both are beautiful stones, but the Sri Lankan is worth about a tenth less than the Burmese.

 

[chrono]

Gorgeous stones and links, Pregcurious. I generally don't like to generalize but here goes:
Burmese rubies - they run the gamut of colours but the top rubies tend to be very slightly purplish red.
Burmese red spinel - the top red spinels tend to be slightly orangish red but I've seen some neutral reds. They have the most beautiful flames or orangish red spinels.
Tanzanian or Mahenge red spinels - more famed for the hot pinks but have produced lovely very slightly pinkish red spinels. I'm seeing more orangish red Mahenges lately though.

 

[pregcurious]

Gorgeous stones and links, Pregcurious. I generally don't like to generalize but here goes:
Burmese rubies - they run the gamut of colours but the top rubies tend to be very slightly purplish red.
Burmese red spinel - the top red spinels tend to be slightly orangish red but I've seen some neutral reds. They have the most beautiful flames or orangish red spinels.
Tanzanian or Mahenge red spinels - more famed for the hot pinks but have produced lovely very slightly pinkish red spinels. I'm seeing more orangish red Mahenges lately though.

I mostly agree, but I think top Burmese can be slightly orange, or slightly purple, depending on the light. The most important thing is that they read "red", not orangy or purplish. I personally think they read neutral.

Very true about the Mahenge. I have seen a lot of orangy pink colors in stones labeled as have Mahenge origin. Great example of how origin cannot tell you color, but can be used to evoke a color, whatever color for which the location earned it's fame.

To the OP, there are a lot of orangy pinks coming out from Tanzania also. I like these, but they're not considered as valuable as the purplish pinks this location became famous for.

 

[Marlow]

If you want to know how a fine ruby looks like buy a nice synthetic....not a big one - around 2 ct.

I use one to compare it with natural ruby in gem shows....

 

[pregcurious]

Marlowe, great idea. Where did you get yours? Do they sell ones with silk?

 

[T L]

Here's a fine "pigeon blood" ruby, since we're talking about rubies, to compare with. Nothing really gets this fabulous in red.

 

[T L]

If you want to know how a fine ruby looks like buy a nice synthetic....not a big one - around 2 ct.

I use one to compare it with natural ruby in gem shows....

You mean you don't carry around a vial of pigeon blood?

 

[T L]

To the OP, there are a lot of orangy pinks coming out from Tanzania also. I like these, but they're not considered as valuable as the purplish pinks this location became famous for.

Actually, pinkish red is the most valuable hue. Purplish pink, not so much.

Orangey reds and pinks from Tanzania can be nice, as well as purplish pink, but pinkish reds are the most valued.

 

[pregcurious]

TL is correct! I meant to write pinkish red. I don't think I can correct my post anymore. Sorry for the confusion.

Red good for spinel. The redder the better.

 

[pregcurious]

TL whose ring is that honker?

Harriet had a lovely red spinel sugarloaf I think. I can't find it now.

 

[Jereni]

This thread is incredibly educational!

And man, that flame spinel is GORGEOUS. I love a good red with a hint of orange.

 

[Marlow]

Marlowe, great idea. Where did you get yours? Do they sell ones with silk?

They sell it in Munich show - a vendor is specialized in synthetics...I will talk to him - maybe I buy some more - they are very cheap!

Some older synthetics ( Knischka) are quite rare.

It is always nice to see the face of a vendor if I compare the synthetic and the offered stone.

Red is difficult course our eyes are very sensible for green - so this little trick helps a lot ( the synthetic looks always better!!!)
In a show - so much light around and ruby loves incandescent light!!!


Tl: You need fresh blood - unfortunately we are not allowed to bring pidgeons to the show !!!