help me search ruby for my anniversary gift

[moonlight]

Hello PSers,

I am not entirely familiar to the world of CS. That being said, I want to buy a top of the line ruby for my 50th anniversary gift. I went to Tucson gem show two weeks ago to find a ruby that I am looking for. Unfortunately, there isn't many ruby that catch my attention. one of the vendor called constantin wild did have several interesting rubies, but most of them are either too small or too included. Budget wise, I am not sure, but I am thinking somewhere around 75-90k U$D. I can live with heat only ruby, but some highly reputable lab has to regard the ruby as "pigeon's blood". I couldn't careless of the stone's origin. size? as large as possible! I am not sure how big the stone that is within my budget. Perhaps, 4-5ct?

 

[ElleK]

An FYI, "pigeon's blood" is a marketing term. You need to decide what color reads as "pigeon's blood" to you and then go after a ruby in that specific color range.

 

[eastjavaman]

An FYI, "pigeon's blood" is a marketing term. You need to decide what color reads as "pigeon's blood" to you and then go after a ruby in that specific color range.

Interesting quote "You need to decide what color reads as "pigeon's blood"". not sure I agree though.

Rubies tend to be included, however, as long as the inclusion and silk (actually help to spread the color) do not cause the ruby to be muddy and too sleepy it is good.
These 2 rubies are given PB color with the 5ct appears to be eye clean and bigger so you see the price jump despite the origin and same level of treatment: heated. From there you can gauge the approximate pricing and contact AJS if necessary.

http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/mozambique-ruby-5.05-carats.html
http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/burma-ruby-3.01-carats.html

 

[LoversKites]

It's worth contacting preciousgemstones.com with your requirements.
Palagems have a large inventory and may have something to offer, but you'd have to contact them through a jeweller.

Since origin doesn't matter to you I'd personally look for the fine African material as it doesn't carry the premium of Burmese origin has produced some beautiful, clean material

 

[chrono]

How much flux healing (this is considered heat only) are you willing to accept? No residue? Insignificant? Minor? Significant?
http://www.palagems.com/flux_healing.htm

Reputable labs such as AGL, GIA, Gubelin and SSEF no longer describe any top rubies as pigeon's blood anymore. Ideally, it is medium dark tone, pure red or very slightly purplish red hue with vivid saturation.

ETA
Almost forgot all about Nomad's. Do visit their booth at the Trade show.
http://www.gemsbynomads.com/

 

[moonlight]

Thanks for the fast reply guys.

ElleW Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

eastjavaman That 5ct ruby blow my mind. 5ct pigeon blood, eye clean, and descent cut. Do you think they usually offer discount? I will contact them for sure.

LoversKites I contact a dealer whom contact pala for me. A week later, he showed me several nice unheated and heat only rubies, but the price is pretty high.

Chrono When did they drop the 'pigeon blood' term from their cert? I sent a ruby to Gubelin in 2013, and the cert said This colour variety of ruby may also be called "pigeon blood red" in the trade. I have also seen several gia cert rubies with pigeon blood term in it. I am not sure about AGL and SSEF tho. I will definitely visit gems by nomad's booth at trade show. Does flux healing means filling cavities with synthetic ruby?

 

[eastjavaman]

Hi Moonlight,
Never hurt to ask, I am sure that if you have a genuine reasonable offer they are willing to consider.
Just for your reference
http://www.gemresearch.ch/treatment.htm

H Enhanced by heat (no residues present)
E or H(a) Enhanced by heat, residues insignificant (indication of very small residues within fissures only) (more information)
E or H(b) Enhanced by heat, minor residues are present (within fissures only) (more information)
H(c) Transitional grade between H(b) and H(d) (more information)
H(d) Enhanced by heat, significant residues present (within fissures and cavities) (more information)
H(d) (GRS type "Hybrid Ruby") Enhanced by heat, significant and deep reaching residues present within fissures and cavities filled with lead glas (also known as Composite Ruby) (more information)
H(Be) Enhanced by heat and light elements (such as Beryllium) (more information)

 

[chrono]

Does flux healing means filling cavities with synthetic ruby?

Please read the link I shared earlier for more information on flux healing.
http://www.palagems.com/flux_healing.htm
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/[/URL]

Flux healing involves heating corundums with borax or other fluxes. These fluxes actually dissolve the surfaces, including the internal surfaces of cracks. The corundum within this molten material then re-deposits on the fracture surfaces, filling and healing the fractures shut. Undigested material cools into pockets of flux glass. Essentially this amounts to a microscopic deposition of synthetic ruby to heal the cracks closed.

In the broadest sense, this is akin to the oiling of emerald – both treatments involve reduction of reflections from included cracks/fissures. Similar to placing an ice cube in water, a filled fracture is much less visible because the filler replaces air (RI = 1.00) with a substance that has an RI that more closely matches the gem itself (1.76–1.77). However, the flux healing of Mong Hsu rubies differs in three important respects:
•The Mong Hsu ruby treatment is NOT a fracture filling, but a permanent healing of the fractures and fissures, with any filling merely a remnant of the process. In many respects, it is a welding of fractures, similar to the joining of two pieces of metal with heat and a flux to lower their melting point.
•The Mong Hsu ruby treatment is permanent and irreversible. Unlike the oil in an oiled emerald, flux remnants will not drain out in the future, nor can they be removed. There is no way to have a stone revert back to the untreated state.
•The Mong Hsu ruby treatment actually improves a stone’s durability, since the fractures are permanently healed shut.

A 2010 research paper submitted by GIA which applies to all rubies, not just from Mozambique
http://www.gia.edu/research-resources/news-from-research/Flux_heated_and_glass_filled_rubies_from_Mozambique_edu.pdf

There are three types of flux treatment listed and it is important to understand their differences:
FAPFH – Flux Assisted Partial Fissure Healing
GFF – Glass Fissure Filled
LGFF – Lead Glass Fissure Filled

While FAPFH, LGFF and GFF stones all result in stones that have been “clarity enhanced”, the essential difference between the three types of treatment is that the fissures in FAPFH treated material are “healed” closed by synthesis while fissures in either LGFF or GFF are not, i.e., FAPFH fissures are stable (once any surface glass has been removed by HF) whereas LGFF and GFF treated fractures unstable (they will break down and become obviously visible). In severe cases of LGFF treated rubies the LMHC laboratories developed severely worded
descriptions; these are “ruby with glass” and “ruby‐glass composite”.

How is this done, you say?
The ruby is heated to temperatures that may reach as high as 1850°C in the presence of a molten flux. At these temperatures the surfaces of the ruby (alumina) in contact with the flux will slowly dissolve into the flux. During the gradual cool down period the alumina comes out of the flux and crystallizes on the nearest available surfaces. These surfaces may be those of the crucible in which the process is taking place or on the rubies being treated. If crystallization takes place on the rubies, this may be on the outer surfaces (facets) of the stones or on the inner surfaces of any fissures that may be present. If the crystallization is on the inside of fissures, the build‐up of synthetic material will cause the fissures to gradually close or “partially heal” (Figure 2). These partially healed fissures have the appearance of intricate networks of fine tubules contained in undulating planes within the stone. The material that can be observed within these planes is mostly composed of a glass; the transparent spaces within the planes are where the fissures have been partially healed with synthetic corundum.

Then there is glass filled rubies which is not to be confused with flux healed rubies.
http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/gemsandgemology/articles/Sp06-G&G-article-on-lead-glass%E2%80%93filled-rubies.pdf

The first step involves preforming the material to remove any matrix or obvious impurities. The second step is referred to as “warming,” that is, heating the stone to moderate temperatures (reportedly 900–1,400°C). Often used as a first step in standard heat treatment, ”warming” removes potential impurities from the fractures and may improve the color. The third step involves mixing the stone with powders that are composed primarily of lead and silica but may also contain sodium, calcium, potassium, and metal oxides such as copper or bismuth. This mixture is then heated again, reportedly to approximately 900°C, fusing the powders into a glass that penetrates the fractures in the stone.

Lead glass filling can be done on both flux healed rubies and those that have not been healed (exposed to the extremely high temperatures required to heal the fissures closed).

Lead glass / composite ruby
http://www.aglgemlab.com/news/Composite%20Ruby.pdf

These types of treatments allows different levels of ruby material to enter the market to fit their respective niche. High-temperature heat treatment and healing of fractures brought Mong Hsu ruby to the market years ago for what was at the time a very low price. Clarity enhancement with high-lead-content glass has brought ruby and pink sapphire to the market for even lower prices. Depending on the original material, some are very fine in quality (face up).

 

[chrono]

Urgh....you are correct that Gubelin still uses the pigeon's blood romanticised name. At least they have very clear definitions of what it means though.

http://www.gubelingemlab.ch/News/Current-Newsletter.php

*** Gubelin's criteria for pigeon-blood red colour call on ruby:
Traders and privates aiming for the very best rubies are aware of the impact that the term 'pigeon-blood red' on their gem report can make. We are asked constantly about the criteria that Gubelin Gem Lab applies to rubies in order for the highly sought-after trade colour to be mentioned in a report. Here are the guidelines: first and most importantly, the hue of the stone must fit in the strictly defined range given by our master stones, ranging from pure red to red with a minute purplish modifier; further, pigeon-blood red candidates must possess a saturated colour and medium tone. Just a small number of untreated, natural rubies of good quality can qualify: only a few, small eye-visible fractures are allowed, they must be free of eye-visible opaque or dark inclusions, with high transparency, homogeneous colour and colour distribution, and with only minor windowing or extinction. Originally coined for the best rubies from Mogok, Burma, pigeon-blood red implies what the late Dr. Eduard Gubelin described as “…the gorgeous glowing colour of smoldering red fire beneath its shining, lacquer-like surface (…) the crown of all the beauty, the noblest and most precious nuance is pigeon blood red, a saturated shade of carmine red. The more glowing, the more vivid is the red sparkle, the choicer and more costly is the ruby.” Based on his reference to that inner glow, we test each ruby carefully for its medium to high fluorescence excited under a wavelength of 365nm. Gubelin Gem Lab does not apply any restrictions to the country of origin; however, so far we have not come across any rubies from outside Burma that fulfil all criteria.

In summary, the term pigeon-blood red as defined by Gubelin is much more than just a specific hue; it is a mark of distinction for which only a small number of rubies qualify.

 

[chrono]

I find it surprising that GIA uses the term pigeon's blood on their lab reports, given their own explanation below.
http://www.gia.edu/ruby-quality-factor

The GIA Laboratory uses a controlled set of comparison stones called masterstones to determine if corundum is ruby or if it’s pink, purple, or orange sapphire. The laboratory grades its masterstones on the principle that red must be the dominant hue before a stone can be called a ruby. In the gem trade, though, identification of the dominant hue is subject to personal perception.

Blood is another symbol of ruby’s color. Descriptions have compared ruby to the “blood from the right ventricle” or the first two drops of blood from a freshly killed pigeon. Historically, the term “pigeon’s blood” described the red to slightly purplish or pinkish red color of rubies with a soft, glowing, red fluorescence.

Traditional descriptions like these are useful for evoking images and describing color among professionals. But they can be subject to misinterpretation when used to describe a ruby’s actual color.

Trade terms can represent certain colors and qualities that are associated with a stone’s source. The qualities might be typical of that source or they might represent the finest stones from that source.

 

[moonlight]

I see. Thanks all for the information. I think I will only accept heat only without any residues present. what do you think of these one?

http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/mozambique-ruby-5.05-carats.html

 

[LoversKites]

I see. Thanks all for the information. I think I will only accept heat only without any residues present. what do you think of these one?

http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/mozambique-ruby-5.05-carats.html

It's hard to judge the colour since the video doesn't show the stone from the front, and I don't know how to read AJS photography, but I don't doubt that it's beautiful. If you're seriously considering this stone, ask AJS for the stone's performance under different light sources -- handshots could help.

 

[T L]

I find it surprising that GIA uses the term pigeon's blood on their lab reports, given their own explanation below.
http://www.gia.edu/ruby-quality-factor

The GIA Laboratory uses a controlled set of comparison stones called masterstones to determine if corundum is ruby or if it’s pink, purple, or orange sapphire. The laboratory grades its masterstones on the principle that red must be the dominant hue before a stone can be called a ruby. In the gem trade, though, identification of the dominant hue is subject to personal perception.

Blood is another symbol of ruby’s color. Descriptions have compared ruby to the “blood from the right ventricle” or the first two drops of blood from a freshly killed pigeon. Historically, the term “pigeon’s blood” described the red to slightly purplish or pinkish red color of rubies with a soft, glowing, red fluorescence.

Traditional descriptions like these are useful for evoking images and describing color among professionals. But they can be subject to misinterpretation when used to describe a ruby’s actual color.

Trade terms can represent certain colors and qualities that are associated with a stone’s source. The qualities might be typical of that source or they might represent the finest stones from that source.

These metaphors are ridiculous, and I don't full respect any lab that uses them. It must be to cater to vendors, which is really disappointing. I guess they rather make money than be truthful and subjective.

 

[LoversKites]

Any update, moonlight?

 

[moonlight]

I am sorry guys, it took me centuries to get back to you all. Apparently, a dealer said he has a 5.22ct, slightly included, heat only, and GRS pigeon blood for $75k. He will be attending baselworld, so I am going to meet him in his booth

 

[LoversKites]

Pleeeaaase return with photos! Good luck.

 

[Acinom]

Wow, how exciting for you! I second the request for a lot of pics!