Help me with this ruby

[KittyQWJ]

Hi everyone,

I need advise on this ring. The center stone is a 3ct Burmese pigeon blood ruby but GRS H(a) treatment. I was told it’s heated but by looking GRS website, it states use of filler material to heal fracture. My question is first will H(a) be acceptable or it equals to treated ruby. Second is what’s the price scope for this ruby cost per carat.
Thank you.

 

[Bron357]

Hard to say.
While the ruby is Burmese and top colour, the “real money” is in unheated.
Heated rubies are less desirable, that’s just how people with lots of $$$$ see it.
Heat with evidence of residue or H(a) is tricky.
Some people won’t touch the material whereas others say / imply that the residue is minute and an inevitable part of the heat treatment process.
Heat, just H is as “treated” as many people will accept.
Heat only would be between $10,000 and $25,000 a carat for a 3 carat Burmese ruby, so $30,000 to $75,000. I can’t really see what the clarity and cut is like, but lower clarity and a “window” equals less $$$$.
H (a) should be less but how much less is harder to calculate. Possibly another 10 to 20% discount.
The other factor is face up size for carat weight. The Ruby might be 3 carats but it’s on the smaller face up size for its carat weight.
Rubies, like most gemstones, are valued on a combination of their quality, rarity and desirability.

 

[KittyQWJ]

Hard to say.
While the ruby is Burmese and top colour, the “real money” is in unheated.
Heated rubies are less desirable, that’s just how people with lots of $$$$ see it.
Heat with evidence of residue or H(a) is tricky.
Some people won’t touch the material whereas others say / imply that the residue is minute and an inevitable part of the heat treatment process.
Heat, just H is as “treated” as many people will accept.
Heat only would be between $10,000 and $25,000 a carat for a 3 carat Burmese ruby, so $30,000 to $75,000. I can’t really see what the clarity and cut is like, but lower clarity and a “window” equals less $$$$.
H (a) should be less but how much less is harder to calculate. Possibly another 10 to 20% discount.
The other factor is face up size for carat weight. The Ruby might be 3 carats but it’s on the smaller face up size for its carat weight.
Rubies, like most gemstones, are valued on a combination of their quality, rarity and desirability.

Much appreciated for this information.Thank you.

 

[lilmosun]

Just to add to what Bron357 said.

It is common for flux to be added during the heating process to stop rubies from sticking together. The flux can melt and penetrate any cracks/fissures.

H(a) means that insignificant traces of residue found.

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure -

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports

www.gemresearch.ch

Many consider such traces a by product of the process (whereas some find the fact that flux was introduced at all is undesirable).

This is very different than lead glass filling or Beryllium diffused rubies which most of us would agree is not acceptable.

 

[VividRed]

My two cents: the problem here is not the treatment but the color and muddiness of the stone.

Pigeon blood is a poetic terms for the finest ruby color. Ask 10 people what it means and will get 10 different answers. There should not, however, be any dispute over the fact a fine ruby needs to have a vivid red primary color (possibly with a very slight pink/purple modifier) with medium tone, and be at least eye clean and well cut. These stones are exceedingly rare, really. I am still on the hunt for the perfect 1ct. ruby, and consider this a life long quest

GRS (and an army of other labs) is notoriously generous in giving this nomenclature to stones that don’t deserve it - there is pressure from the trade, nobody wants to buy a ruby that isn’t classified as Pigeon Blood nowadays - labs had to adapt. Can’t remember who said it but few people in the trade have actually seen such a ruby in their life.

The truth is that the ruby you posted has is not fully saturated, has a strong brown mask, and extremely low brilliance. These factors make it look muddy. Definitely not what you want from a ruby. Don’t pay ruby prices for garnet quality.

Good luck!

 

[Bron357]

My two cents: the problem here is not the treatment but the color and muddiness of the stone.

Pigeon blood is a poetic terms for the finest ruby color. Ask 10 people what it means and will get 10 different answers. There should not, however, be any dispute over the fact a fine ruby needs to have a vivid red primary color (possibly with a very slight pink/purple modifier) with medium tone, and be at least eye clean and well cut. These stones are exceedingly rare, really. I am still on the hunt for the perfect 1ct. ruby, and consider this a life long quest

GRS (and an army of other labs) is notoriously generous in giving this nomenclature to stones that don’t deserve it - there is pressure from the trade, nobody wants to buy a ruby that isn’t classified as Pigeon Blood nowadays - labs had to adapt. Can’t remember who said it but few people in the trade have actually seen such a ruby in their life.

The truth is that the ruby you posted has is not fully saturated, has a strong brown mask, and extremely low brilliance. These factors make it look muddy. Definitely not what you want from a ruby. Don’t pay ruby prices for garnet quality.

Good luck!

I’ll let you know when I’m ready to rehome.

 

[ringo865]

Gah, @Bron357 - your stone is delicious!

 

[KittyQWJ]

Just to add to what Bron357 said.

It is common for flux to be added during the heating process to stop rubies from sticking together. The flux can melt and penetrate any cracks/fissures.

H(a) means that insignificant traces of residue found.

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure -

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports

www.gemresearch.ch

Many consider such traces a by product of the process (whereas some find the fact that flux was introduced at all is undesirable).

This is very different than lead glass filling or Beryllium diffused rubies which most of us would agree is not acceptable.

Thank you.

My two cents: the problem here is not the treatment but the color and muddiness of the stone.

Pigeon blood is a poetic terms for the finest ruby color. Ask 10 people what it means and will get 10 different answers. There should not, however, be any dispute over the fact a fine ruby needs to have a vivid red primary color (possibly with a very slight pink/purple modifier) with medium tone, and be at least eye clean and well cut. These stones are exceedingly rare, really. I am still on the hunt for the perfect 1ct. ruby, and consider this a life long quest

GRS (and an army of other labs) is notoriously generous in giving this nomenclature to stones that don’t deserve it - there is pressure from the trade, nobody wants to buy a ruby that isn’t classified as Pigeon Blood nowadays - labs had to adapt. Can’t remember who said it but few people in the trade have actually seen such a ruby in their life.

The truth is that the ruby you posted has is not fully saturated, has a strong brown mask, and extremely low brilliance. These factors make it look muddy. Definitely not what you want from a ruby. Don’t pay ruby prices for garnet quality.

Good luck!

Thank you for your advice. I noted GRS is generous give pigeon blood especially Burmese ruby. The stone is actually has very strong pinkish tone under light.

 

[KittyQWJ]

Just to add to what Bron357 said.

It is common for flux to be added during the heating process to stop rubies from sticking together. The flux can melt and penetrate any cracks/fissures.

H(a) means that insignificant traces of residue found.

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure -

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports

www.gemresearch.ch

Many consider such traces a by product of the process (whereas some find the fact that flux was introduced at all is undesirable).

This is very different than lead glass filling or Beryllium diffused rubies which most of us would agree is not acceptable.

Thank you for this information. It actually explained my concern as I saw a lot Burmese rubies with H(a) in the market as they are easier to crack.

 

[Bron357]

Personally I don’t think the “label” of the colour means much, especially as different labs have different interpretations.
unfortunately though it seems to affect the price because “pigeon blood” is the “top preferred” colour.
Whats most important should be the actual colour.
Do YOU love that colour?
That’s what should drive your decision.

 

[Bron357]

Thank you for this information. It actually explained my concern as I saw a lot Burmese rubies with H(a) in the market as they are easier to crack.

Most stock from Burma now comes from Mong Hse which has a purple tone and sometimes actually purple blue colour zoning. They need to heat this material to remove the undesirable blue zoning.
old stock from Mogok is the Burmese ruby that has the $$$$ price tag and is keenly sought by lovers of Ruby. Like Russian Alexandrite, the source has run dry.

 

[VividRed]

I’ll let you know when I’m ready to rehome.

And I will welcome you with wide open arms (and wallet )

 

[VividRed]

Thank you.


Thank you for your advice. I noted GRS is generous give pigeon blood especially Burmese ruby. The stone is actually has very strong pinkish tone under light.

You can also see the healed surface reaching fractures, typical of Mong Hsu rubies. It’s hard to get the color on camera, but there is simply something about fine stones that makes it easier. With everything else you need to find the angle, the light, the mood, to make it look decent. I know because I have a couple of meh and a couple of good rubies and it’s two different worlds.

 

[LilAlex]

Thank you for this information. It actually explained my concern as I saw a lot Burmese rubies with H(a) in the market as they are easier to crack.

Most here would not buy/accept a flux-filled anything. I would not by a fracture-filled anything apart from minimal oil in an emerald.

I do not believe that it happens by accident. It has a disastrous impact upon selling price so no one just sprinkles it around...

It is common because amazing untreated rubies are not.