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Help with 2.15 ct from BN

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Nicfit

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
28
Hello!

I’m hoping to get your expert help in selecting “the one”. PS has been an invaluable resource, albeit a tad overwhelming! I’m a relative novice when it comes to diamonds, and have searched high and low for an engagement ring stone primarily on BN, JA, GOG, Brilliant Earth, Brian Gavin etc. I think I zeroed in on one that might fit the bill in terms of quality and price point. I ran the numbers on HCA, and it scored 1.9. I would love some additional insight into this stone as I want to be as well informed as possible before this big purchase. The link to the stone is below:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

Thanks so much! :)
 
Looks like it’s sold now??

I’d say it’s cut too deep, I’m afraid and the angles aren’t great, stick to the following numbers on a GIA XXX stone:

table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0)
 
That's an ok stone, but not great. It's way too deep, you're losing spread, the pattern isn't well defined, the crown angle is too high. It would never get graded Ideal by AGS, for example.

But if you have an extra 1k to spend, here's a GREAT stone. It's bigger, cleaner (this one is a VS1), it has better stats so will reflect light better. It's HCA is 1.3 (which is a great place to be), and its arrows are much more cleanly defined. It has strong blue fluorescence, so it will probably look a little whiter. It's a better stone right across the board.

You'll make your own decisions, of course, but I'd get on this:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab
 
I agree that it is cut too deep. Stick to the numbers above. If you share what specs you're looking for and your budget we can help find a stone.
 
You guys are so helpful, thank you thank you!

What are the implications of a stone that is cut too deep?

My desired specs are:
1.8- 2.2 ct
SI1-VS1, I color
Price range: 15k-17k


I, like everyone else, want the most bang for my buck! I was also told multiple times to avoid fluorescence when purchasing a larger diamond.

It’s been a challenge finding a diamond that’s a high performer within my price range without fluorescence.
 
It is too deep and the girdle too thick - both of which make the stone diameter smaller than it should be. I would definitely keep looking.
 
Nicfit said:
You guys are so helpful, thank you thank you!
It’s been a challenge finding a diamond that’s a high performer within my price range without fluorescence.
Click to expand...
Is there a reason you don't want fluorescence?
 
mrs-b said:
This. Seriously - the diamond I posted was perfect, tho I totally understand if it was above budget.
Click to expand...
I can never understand why the bias against fluoro - it's like your diamond has a secret super power and the bonus price drop is just the icing on the cake. Tho if everyone gets over that, it'll stop being a thing.

Just reread the post - OP has been advised to avoid fluoro. @Nicfit , fluro isn't bad in and of itself. It can very very rarely cause an issue when it's very strong but the incidence of this is very low. There seems to be some potential for problems if the stone has other clarity issues such as lots of clouds or graining. There have been a number of threads about this on PS so have a look if you're interested.
 
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Nicfit said:
You guys are so helpful, thank you thank you!

What are the implications of a stone that is cut too deep?

My desired specs are:
1.8- 2.2 ct
SI1-VS1, I color
Price range: 15k-17k


I, like everyone else, want the most bang for my buck! I was also told multiple times to avoid fluorescence when purchasing a larger diamond.

It’s been a challenge finding a diamond that’s a high performer within my price range without fluorescence.
Click to expand...

You can get a Whiteflash ACA for your budget. It will be on a lower end of your carat range but will have amazing light performance
 
Nicfit said:
You guys are so helpful, thank you thank you!

What are the implications of a stone that is cut too deep?

My desired specs are:
1.8- 2.2 ct
SI1-VS1, I color
Price range: 15k-17k


I, like everyone else, want the most bang for my buck! I was also told multiple times to avoid fluorescence when purchasing a larger diamond.

It’s been a challenge finding a diamond that’s a high performer within my price range without fluorescence.
Click to expand...

I just paid for my ER through IDJ and the process was super great. I feel (and confirmed by others) that I got a great price for the ring that I chose. I would advise giving Yekutiel a call over at ID Jewelry and let him know your budget and that you are sent from PriceScope so he can find you something. Good luck!
 
Too deep @ 62.8. Also crown is too steep @ 36. At least pavilion is complimentary at 40.6. Appears this stone was cut for weight, not the most sparkle.

mrs-b said:
But if you have an extra 1k to spend, here's a GREAT stone. It's bigger, cleaner (this one is a VS1), it has better stats so will reflect light better. It's HCA is 1.3 (which is a great place to be), and its arrows are much more cleanly defined. It has strong blue fluorescence, so it will probably look a little whiter. It's a better stone right across the board.

You'll make your own decisions, of course, but I'd get on this:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab
Click to expand...

This stone is freakin' gorgeous!

Small table and that 34.5 crown and 40.8 pavilion will give you a sparkle ball of awesomeness!

As others pointed out, don't let fluor deter you if all else works. Take the price cut and ensure it isn't cloudy or hazy (which it's not, but you always confirm).
 
sledge said:
It appears you don't have to listen to me or @mrs-b about this stone -- someone else bought it for $16,003 (or $15,763 wire) from Yadav. Gotta love the power of virtual inventory and savvy internet shopping.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ut-recent-purchase.244274/page-3#post-4432454
Click to expand...

Well, that's a GREAT buy for the person who got it. Huge loss for the OP of this thread.

And @Nicfit - a report came out recently saying that, after a lot of research, it had been determined that fluorescence made no impact on the clarity of the stone, and that stones with high fluorescence had cloudiness about the same percentage of times as non-fluoro diamonds. It was posted by one of the pros here on PS and it's in Rocky Talky somewhere within the last 8 weeks or so.

This was an awesome stone and - what a bargain from Yadav!!!
 
Thanks everyone for lending your expertise and guidance. The diamond shopping process has been downright exhausting.

@mrs-b That diamond you linked me sure is a beaut! I'm glad that a PSer got their hands on it at such a great price.

@snowdrop I really appreciate you linking me to the stones! I will definitely be taking a closer look at them.

Regarding fluorescence, I don't have a substantive reason as to why I was avoiding it - it's just an ignorant bias based on what I've been told by jewelers and some cursory research online. Consider me schooled...

Would someone be able to give me some feedback on the stones below?

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...rloom=true&shape=Round#diamond=R201-805895070

HCA: .9

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3187076

HCA: 1.8

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...rloom=true&shape=Round#diamond=R202-721089672
 
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Nicfit said:
Thanks everyone for lending your expertise and guidance. The diamond shopping process has been downright exhausting.

@mrs-b That diamond you linked me sure is a beaut! I'm glad that a PSer got their hands on it at such a great price.

@snowdrop I really appreciate you linking me to the stones! I will definitely be taking a closer look at them.

Regarding fluorescence, I don't have a substantive reason as to why I was avoiding it - it's just an ignorant bias based on what I've been told by jewelers and some cursory research online. Consider me schooled...

Would someone be able to give me some feedback on the stones below?

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...rloom=true&shape=Round#diamond=R201-805895070

HCA: .9

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3187076

HCA: 1.8

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...rloom=true&shape=Round#diamond=R202-721089672
Click to expand...

Its not wrong to have a preference on fluor, just make sure you understand it enough to realize when there might be a time your preference compromises the big picture objective. At the same time, if you narrow down to a select few options that are otherwise equal, this could be a great tie breaker. Also in higher colors, less fluor is normally desired. In lower colors it can be a benefit.

In regards to the stones you listed, I'd pass on the first one. It has clear light leakage around the 5 o'clock position. Also the symmetry is a bit of a mess as those hearts are a mess. Granted, symmetry has less visual effect but the ASET also shows that leakage I already pointed out. Oddly enough the 35/40.6 angle combo with 55 table is usually a good sign. This diamond is a great example why it's important to request images even when proportions look promising.

The second stone has a larger 57 table, which is acceptable. Here you are pairing a steep crown of 35 with a fairly steep pavilion of 40.8. Normally you want them to be more complimentary so a 40.6 pavilion would work better. Many of the super ideal vendors make this combo work because they have precise cutting and symmetry. The symmetry of this stone is much better than the first: however, there are some imperfections. Additionally the ASET shows a light pink ring around the stone you don't want to see. It could be over saturation of backlighting but if you look closely you will also see some green slivers in that ring indicating it's getting less than ideal light return as that area should all be a dark red. I would probably consider this stone but keep looking for something better, personally.
 
mrs-b said:
Well, that's a GREAT buy for the person who got it. Huge loss for the OP of this thread.

And @Nicfit - a report came out recently saying that, after a lot of research, it had been determined that fluorescence made no impact on the clarity of the stone, and that stones with high fluorescence had cloudiness about the same percentage of times as non-fluoro diamonds. It was posted by one of the pros here on PS and it's in Rocky Talky somewhere within the last 8 weeks or so.

This was an awesome stone and - what a bargain from Yadav!!!
Click to expand...

that great buy was done over here =)

hey, nicfit i know how frustrating it can be to find something perfect. also, a tool i liked to use while searching was the "free report" from rare carat. The ratings it gives you aren't quite up to PS standards, but any stone you find i would run it through there to see if other retailers are selling it at a cheaper price. I don't necessarily like using their search tool because i feel it doesn't update as fast as the actual vendor sites do, and the parameter filters force you to round up or down usually, but it never hurts to look on there. the search tool on this site works great, but i found that while the diamond search engines are great, i don't think their API's update as quickly as they should. A few times i found something awesome on the search, it ended up being gone.

I found the 2.17 I vs1 stone reference above on BN as well. i ran it through the free report and found that 3 other retailers were selling it cheaper. I ended up going to Fourmine for the stone because they have settings i liked and they were selling it for $300 more than Yadav. they price matched it for me. the the 18,500 stone on BN i ended up getting for $16k, a huge saving.

Here is one i found this morning to check out, .09 HCA, in budget, no fluor, 2.01, 35/40.6, 55/61.9, I color, VS2, lower half at 80%, i believe people prefer 75%. pic and video look good. trust me i'm not an expert, but just here to help.

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/1814118?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2017
 
c3doyle said:
Here is one i found this morning to check out, .09 HCA, in budget, no fluor, 2.01, 35/40.6, 55/61.9, I color, VS2, lower half at 80%, i believe people prefer 75%. pic and video look good. trust me i'm not an expert, but just here to help.

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/1814118?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2017
Click to expand...
Nicfit said:
Would someone be able to give me some feedback on the stones below?

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...rloom=true&shape=Round#diamond=R201-805895070

HCA: .9
Click to expand...

FYI, these are the same stones -- just listed at different vendors. While the proportions appear to be good the ED site has an ASET, Idealscope and H&A images to look at as well. My comments I made earlier still apply to this stone. I would pass.

sledge said:
In regards to the stones you listed, I'd pass on the first one. It has clear light leakage around the 5 o'clock position. Also the symmetry is a bit of a mess as those hearts are a mess. Granted, symmetry has less visual effect but the ASET also shows that leakage I already pointed out. Oddly enough the 35/40.6 angle combo with 55 table is usually a good sign. This diamond is a great example why it's important to request images even when proportions look promising.
Click to expand...
 
Nicfit said:
Would someone be able to give me some feedback on the stones below?

Stone 1:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...rloom=true&shape=Round#diamond=R201-805895070

HCA: .9

Stone 2:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3187076

HCA: 1.8

Stone 3:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...rloom=true&shape=Round#diamond=R202-721089672
Click to expand...

Earlier this morning when I commented on these stones, I had missed the JA stone (technically stone #2). I have re-labeled the stones by numbers above and also corrected my original review of the stones below.

Additionally I would like to offer some comments on Stone #2. Out of the the 3 stones presented, I like this stone best. It has an AGS000 certification meaning it has an ideal cut as certified by AGS and while it has high crown & high pavilion, it was apparently cut correctly as it received ideal accreditation. Also, the symmetry is much better as we can see in the H&A images.

I might note the original date of the certificate is 2/9/2017 meaning this stone is likely a trade-in of some sort from another customer. While any diamond is always "old" because of the time it takes to form, some people get hung up on a stone being pre-owned.

Also, using the zoom function, it appears the stone should be eye clean but I would verify with JA that it is indeed eye clean and that the inclusions do not alter light return performance. FYI, the arrow in the 12 o'clock position doesn't seem to contrast like the others.

One last comment. You indicated the JA stone pulled a 1.8 HCA. If you enter the data you get this result; however, you need to understand that HCA does not apply to AGS graded stones -- it only applies to GIA graded stones. The reasoning is because AGS stones are scanned with an advanced 3D technology that provides precise measurements. GIA stones utilize older 2D style measurements and the HCA uses the 2D measurements to approximate the light return. The HCA isn't as in-depth or advanced as the 3D scan that AGS uses. The net effect is that HCA is not applicable to AGS stones.

That said, here is my corrected comments from earlier:

sledge said:
Stone 1:
In regards to the stones you listed, I'd pass on the first one. It has clear light leakage around the 5 o'clock position. Also the symmetry is a bit of a mess as those hearts are a mess. Granted, symmetry has less visual effect but the ASET also shows that leakage I already pointed out. Oddly enough the 35/40.6 angle combo with 55 table is usually a good sign. This diamond is a great example why it's important to request images even when proportions look promising.

Stone 3:
The third stone has a larger 57 table, which is acceptable. Here you are pairing a steep crown of 35 with a fairly steep pavilion of 40.8. Normally you want them to be more complimentary so a 40.6 pavilion would work better. Many of the super ideal vendors make this combo work because they have precise cutting and symmetry. The symmetry of this stone is much better than the first: however, there are some imperfections. Additionally the ASET shows a light pink ring around the stone you don't want to see. It could be over saturation of backlighting but if you look closely you will also see some green slivers in that ring indicating it's getting less than ideal light return as that area should all be a dark red. I would probably consider this stone but keep looking for something better, personally.
Click to expand...
 
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@sledge Thanks for your detailed assessments, super informative. Per your advice, I'll be passing on stones 1 & 3. Stone #2 from JA looked so promising but I also noticed the certificate date, and I am one of those people that would not be able to get past the likelihood of it being preowned. Also the haziness located at the center of the table made me a tad uneasy.

What are your thoughts on this one from Adiamor?

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/2.18-ct-I-VS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D42174602?rfr=similar

I feel like this one fits the bill in terms of meeting criteria and budget, but the price seems to be on the lower side for the weight. Would that be due to the blemish right smack dab in the middle of the table? Would this blemish be visible to the naked eye?

H &A image

image-1.png


@c3doyle Congrats on your new rock and thanks for sharing rarecarat; what a great tool!
 
Nicfit said:
@sledge Thanks for your detailed assessments, super informative. Per your advice, I'll be passing on stones 1 & 3. Stone #2 from JA looked so promising but I also noticed the certificate date, and I am one of those people that would not be able to get past the likelihood of it being preowned. Also the haziness located at the center of the table made me a tad uneasy.

What are your thoughts on this one from Adiamor?

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/2.18-ct-I-VS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D42174602?rfr=similar

I feel like this one fits the bill in terms of meeting criteria and budget, but the price seems to be on the lower side for the weight. Would that be due to the blemish right smack dab in the middle of the table? Would this blemish be visible to the naked eye?

H &A image

image-1.png


@c3doyle Congrats on your new rock and thanks for sharing rarecarat; what a great tool!
Click to expand...

Proportions look good, crown is a tad high and table may be too I think, like I said not an expert still a novice. But if it were me, I’d be nervous about a black crystal in the center of the table.

With the generous return policies you could always get it shipped to you and see it for yourself and make the decision. Unless you’re planning on paying cash, that would tie up a lot of money. If you can do it on credit not a bad idea. I was going to do that because I was torn between stones so I was just going to order both and make the decision in person.

I would wait until someone with more knowledge chimes in tho.

Did you run it through HCA?
 
I did! It scored a 1.5. Yeah, the crystal makes me a bit squeamish, especially the location of it. :(

Whichever stone I decide on, I’ll likely do a wire transfer due to the savings. Though if I do end up going with any California based vendor, I’ll have to pay sales tax so it all depends, I suppose. Man, I once used to loooove browsing diamonds, but now...I can say that I’m positively sick and tired of them. Haha

By the way, is there a more economical option for hca calculations beyond the 15 for $7.00? I’ve been burning through them so quickly!
 
Nicfit said:
I did! It scored a 1.5. Yeah, the crystal makes me a bit squeamish, especially the location of it. :(

Whichever stone I decide on, I’ll likely do a wire transfer due to the savings. Though if I do end up going with any California based vendor, I’ll have to pay sales tax so it all depends, I suppose. Man, I once used to loooove browsing diamonds, but now...I can say that I’m positively sick and tired of them. Haha

By the way, is there a more economical option for hca calculations beyond the 15 for $7.00? I’ve been burning through them so quickly!
Click to expand...

Dude I feel you on the search. It took me hours every day for weeks. I feel your pain.

Ya the wire transfer makes it tough to just buy one and return it due to turnaround time.

I do have a more economical solution, but I don’t want to break any rules. Any way for me to contact you? Perhaps via email?
 
c3doyle said:
That one looks nice. Over his budget though. But looks like a beauty.
Click to expand...

True, but not by much and it's really a fabulous diamond, H&A, AGS0. I'm very partial to AGS.
 
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