How do find to get experience in something when working FT?

[zoebartlett]

Some of you may know (if you read BWW) that my FI may lose his job due to restructuring of his company, etc. His industry isn''t the most stable one to be in these days. We were talking about his job the other night and he''s not sure how to handle something, so I thought I''d ask for any input you could give.

One thing that he''s found in the past two jobs he''s had (over a 9+ year span) is that just because you''re promised certain opportunities, it doesn''t mean they will happen. For the record, I want to say that my FI loves his work and he''s learned a lot. The one sticking point is that he really wants to get experience with different software programs, and although he has been told that he''d have the opportunity to do so, this hasn''t happened yet. Having experience with a couple of programs in particular is a very favorable thing to companies seeking new employees. In his current job and also in his previous position with a different company, he was told that he could be trained in these programs. I''m not sure if that meant taking a class for a few days, a week, or taking a full 8-16 week course at a local college. The problem is, and I apologize if I''m long-winded, that is my FI has not had the time to look into classes or trainings because of the daily demands he has had in his
job(s).

In both of these positions he''s had, he''s been the only one in his department who has done what he has. There''s been no one else who could take some of the work load off my FI so he could get the training he feels is becoming necessary.

Has anyone else been in this situation? If so, how did you handle it?

 

[zoebartlett]

Oops! Sorry, I must have typed the title too fast. It should read, "How do you find time to get experience in something when working FT?"

 

[gwendolyn]

Does your FI''s job leak over into the weekends, or does he have those free? I don''t have any experience with his line of work, but my brother worked for a company doing computer stuff during the week, and took classes on the weekends to up his credentials. It sucked for a while since he basically had no free time, but it paid off in the end.

Another possible option might be for him to try to get a weekend part-time job doing other stuff related to what he does but new to add to his resume, which also might be beneficial if he does end up losing his current job, since he''d still have some pay coming in and all. Not sure how feasible that would be for what he does, though.

I think your FI really just needs to sit down to look at what classes are offered and how flexible the schedules are--there are lots of things offered online now where they might be able to fit around his schedule. However, if he''s had a hard time finding the time to just look up the info, I''m wondering if he''ll have the time to take any classes.

 

[violet02]

Zoe, could you clarify a few things for me... what type of work does he do exactly? What types of classes is he looking for, stuff like C# Programming? What area do you live in roughly?

I work for a software company and I do things like take classes one to two evenings a week at a local university extension program. There are also some junior college programming courses available but those are tricky because then can be during the day. Lastly there are courses from outside training companies that offer programming or of course online courses.

 

[zoebartlett]

Thanks Gwendolyn and Violet.

Violet, my FI works in a major city in New England, which is an hour away from where we live (more, if you count the commuting time during the week). He''s been a data base developer/administrator in the health care field and currently, he''s a data and reporting analyst (at the senior level) in the financial industry.

I know virtually nothing about his field and recommended software knowledge, but I do know that my FI has mentioned SQL Server and Dot Net (.Net?). He''s mentioned C++ but I think he believes that C++ might be an older program that is on its way out. SQL Server is the one he''s mentioned most often. Again, all of this is a foreign language to me.

Part of the problem is that because of his long commute, it''s almost impossible to take night classes. He gets out of work usually between 6-7PM or so, so he''d miss out on night classes. He might be able to leave early a couple nights per week if needed, but there''s no guarantee he''d be able to do that on a consistent basis (since he''s the only one in his position). If he was able to do night classes, it would mean an extremely long night whenever he had class. He could take weekend classes I suppose -- maybe he''ll look into it more and see if any are available on Saturdays.

 

[Daydreamer7130]

My FI is a software engineer. Please don''t ask me what exactly what he does because it''s very confusing to me. He does not program anymore. He manages testers and QA people.

About 3 months ago, his company suddenly let go his entire department. I know the unstability. He did not work for 2 months and had "headhunters" find him a job. There are many HH for the computer industry. A HH found him a job and we are very happy. He is VERY happy with his new job. I''m happy for him.

BTW, he has 4 of those C++ books on the shelf! I will be happy to pass along any questions you guys may have.

Good luck!

Cyn

 

[ringster]

Date: 4/17/2008 7:47:03 PM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Thanks Gwendolyn and Violet.


Violet, my FI works in a major city in New England, which is an hour away from where we live (more, if you count the commuting time during the week). He's been a data base developer/administrator in the health care field and currently, he's a data and reporting analyst (at the senior level) in the financial industry.


I know virtually nothing about his field and recommended software knowledge, but I do know that my FI has mentioned SQL Server and Dot Net (.Net?). He's mentioned C++ but I think he believes that C++ might be an older program that is on its way out. SQL Server is the one he's mentioned most often. Again, all of this is a foreign language to me.


Part of the problem is that because of his long commute, it's almost impossible to take night classes. He gets out of work usually between 6-7PM or so, so he'd miss out on night classes. He might be able to leave early a couple nights per week if needed, but there's no guarantee he'd be able to do that on a consistent basis (since he's the only one in his position). If he was able to do night classes, it would mean an extremely long night whenever he had class. He could take weekend classes I suppose -- maybe he'll look into it more and see if any are available on Saturdays.

zoe, it is a chicken and egg thing isn't it

. has he also looked into consulting? or working for one of these firms that is like a temp agency for professionals? it won't necessarily get him the experience he is looking for but will provide income if he gets laid off. plus he can possibly get his foot in the door at some other companies.

also, all of the programs you mention are quite different from each other and are a beast in and of themselves, so i think he needs to decide which one to focus on learning and then strategize from there. if there is anyway he can build on the database experience he currently has that would probably be the best way to go, for example, focusing on sql server since it is a database program.

maybe he can setup a project for himself where he can get to use it and demonstrate his hands on experience. a friend of mine setup his own ms access database and built his own website that accessed the database so that he could learn how to program both. he also volunteered his services to a local art gallery and setup their website. it was great cause he could direct prospective employers to both websites.

but whether it is classes or his own project, he will need to put in some serious time to get familiar with any program.

ETA : i think daydreamer and i were posting at the same time! yep, headhunters are very very helpful but just need to be careful and make sure that they are correctly matching your FI with the right job. i have found that HH are sometimes more interested in making the "sale" and not as interested in making a good fit. ask around and get some references for good ones.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Any chance he could take classes via distance learning (non face to face)?

cheers--Sharon

 

[violet02]

Date: 4/17/2008 7:47:03 PM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Thanks Gwendolyn and Violet.

Violet, my FI works in a major city in New England, which is an hour away from where we live (more, if you count the commuting time during the week). He's been a data base developer/administrator in the health care field and currently, he's a data and reporting analyst (at the senior level) in the financial industry.

I know virtually nothing about his field and recommended software knowledge, but I do know that my FI has mentioned SQL Server and Dot Net (.Net?). He's mentioned C++ but I think he believes that C++ might be an older program that is on its way out. SQL Server is the one he's mentioned most often. Again, all of this is a foreign language to me.

Part of the problem is that because of his long commute, it's almost impossible to take night classes. He gets out of work usually between 6-7PM or so, so he'd miss out on night classes. He might be able to leave early a couple nights per week if needed, but there's no guarantee he'd be able to do that on a consistent basis (since he's the only one in his position). If he was able to do night classes, it would mean an extremely long night whenever he had class. He could take weekend classes I suppose -- maybe he'll look into it more and see if any are available on Saturdays.

Hrmm... well for SQL Server the best thing to do is to pick up some books and if you have a computer at home maybe he can practice setting up a database on there and learning SQL on that (diito what ringster said basically). There are lots of handy SQL books out there right now. In terms of programming languages I would tenatively advise learning Java or C# depending on where he wants to go work next or what type of work he wants to get into.

I'm a Software Tester and my FI is a Software Developer. At our company we have to know how to use Visual Studio and know C#. Visual Studio makes it very easy to program in C# though. Since he's talking about .NET I would say he should be learning C#. Now I have a TON of extra books laying around here for Microsoft Programming. Stuff like Visual C# and Visual C#.NET some are a tad dated but may be useful if you're on a tight budget and need free books. I would just need to know where to send them which is tricky since we can't post personal info on here.

So book learning is one way to go if he can't get class time... There are definitley online courses though that are quite good as well. He could work at his own pace and email in the 'homework'. Depends on what he needs in terms of computer setup at home though.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 4/17/2008 9:19:19 PM
Author: violet02

Date: 4/17/2008 7:47:03 PM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Thanks Gwendolyn and Violet.

Violet, my FI works in a major city in New England, which is an hour away from where we live (more, if you count the commuting time during the week). He''s been a data base developer/administrator in the health care field and currently, he''s a data and reporting analyst (at the senior level) in the financial industry.

I know virtually nothing about his field and recommended software knowledge, but I do know that my FI has mentioned SQL Server and Dot Net (.Net?). He''s mentioned C++ but I think he believes that C++ might be an older program that is on its way out. SQL Server is the one he''s mentioned most often. Again, all of this is a foreign language to me.

Part of the problem is that because of his long commute, it''s almost impossible to take night classes. He gets out of work usually between 6-7PM or so, so he''d miss out on night classes. He might be able to leave early a couple nights per week if needed, but there''s no guarantee he''d be able to do that on a consistent basis (since he''s the only one in his position). If he was able to do night classes, it would mean an extremely long night whenever he had class. He could take weekend classes I suppose -- maybe he''ll look into it more and see if any are available on Saturdays.

Hrmm... well for SQL Server the best thing to do is to pick up some books and if you have a computer at home maybe he can practice setting up a database on there and learning SQL on that (diito what ringster said basically). There are lots of handy SQL books out there right now. In terms of programming languages I would tenatively advise learning Java or C# depending on where he wants to go work next or what type of work he wants to get into.

I''m a Software Tester and my FI is a Software Developer. At our company we have to know how to use Visual Studio and know C#. Visual Studio makes it very easy to program in C# though. Since he''s talking about .NET I would say he should be learning C#. Now I have a TON of extra books laying around here for Microsoft Programming. Stuff like Visual C# and Visual C#.NET some are a tad dated but may be useful if you''re on a tight budget and need free books. I would just need to know where to send them which is tricky since we can''t post personal info on here.

So book learning is one way to go if he can''t get class time... There are definitley online courses though that are quite good as well. He could work at his own pace and email in the ''homework''. Depends on what he needs in terms of computer setup at home though.

Well, unfortunately TIME is the only thing for learning a language. Time to fiddle, play, mess it up, fix it READ. I had a career in the mainframe world, got laid off, and was off for 10 months going back to school (not the whole time) and got a partial cert on an MCAD. The story is long and boring, but the short one is that now I''m doing maintenence on older ASP/Classic VB/javascript apps, with a bit of Java thrown in. Not the C# and VS .Net 2.0 that I learned (our shop is almost all open source - Java, etc). And I''m losing it due to lack of TIME. And quite frankly, ASP is a pile.

Reading is my learning style for most things. But just learning the IDE (the development environment itself -ie Visual Studio - and they''re usually VERY powerful) well can be time-consuming. I''d suggest beg/borrow/steal the software you need, load ''er up, sit down with books. Not that helpful I know. Is there any way that he can get the company to subsidize some of his training - some of the online MS training if it''s available for what he wants - and maybe allow him to stay after an extra hour or two several nights to use their software?

 

[sumbride]

I agree with Violet re: SQL Server. I learned it from a book mostly, but also took a 1 week class in programming and administration. It''s a very important program to know if he wants to stay in the DBA/DB Programming world, and it''s all I know. I tried VB.Net but our office doesn''t run .Net yet so I haven''t had much chance to practice. The book I have on SQL that helped me a lot is the WROX book with the dorky guy on the front (a joke because ALL the WROX books have dorky guys on the front...)

 

[zoebartlett]

Thanks Daydreamer! I''m not sure what questions my FI may have about C++ but I''ll pass them along if he asks something along the way.

Here''s part of the problem. He''s been a DBA for a number of years, and he felt that he had outgrown his last position (relatively small department in a hospital). Now''s he''s a data and reporting analyst. While he loves certain aspects of his position, he''s not sure which direction he should move in. Part of him wants to have a managerial type of job (which he''s never had) and part of him wants to remain in the more technical realm. He''s considered getting an MBA or a masters in a computer field but he''s not sure a) which one he''d rather have and b) which would make him more marketable. My FI was never 100% invested in school, so beginning a higher degree makes ME nervious -- not because he wouldn''t be good at it, but because it''s a lot of money to put toward something if it''s not REALLY what he wants. I think he''s afraid of enrolling in a few classes, liking them, but then getting into a masters program and not liking it. He did a 10 year plan for college, and he''d take a class or two here, stop for a while, and then take another class or two there. You know? You just can''t do that with a master''s type of program. I did it a little differently -- I quit my full-time job in publishing to go back to school full-time for my masters in education. My FI doesn''t have the "luxury" of doing that. He''s by far the breadwinner in our household, and well, we just couldn''t make it living on my salary alone.

Maybe I sidetracked a little but I wanted to paint more of the picture.

 

[zoebartlett]

Ringster -- he''s thought of consulting but isn''t that sort of risky? You work for one company until a contract runs out and then you have to look for other consulting work? Maybe I''m mixing up consulting and contract work. Hmmm...

I believe he''s considered both, anyway. I''m not sure what he''d want.

Ahhh, deciding which one (program) to focus on is a major issue. I just put a wrench into this whole thing by describing above what he''s considering, and it''s not just computer programs. Since I am not familiar with any of them, I can only pass along the names and hope that others know what I''m talking about.

I do know that my FI has a ton of Access experience. I like the idea of coming up with his own project -- he''s done it before. I also like the idea of him working with an art gallery or another business and donating his skill set so to speak in order to continue gaining more experience. I hope I said that correctly. I''ll talk to him about it.

Regarding headhunters, yes, he knows of at least one very reputable one that he''d like to work with. So that''s an option.

Hi Sharon -- I''ve mentioned distance learning and I couldn''t get a good sense of whether that was something he wants to pursue. I''ll ask again though -- I like the idea, personally.

 

[zoebartlett]

Violet -- thanks!!! Although my FI isn''t a PS kind of guy, I''m going to show him this thread (or least your reponse). He''d definitely know what you''re talking about.

I''ll show him your suggestions. We have a laptop at home, and he has another computer that he could set up again if needed, although neither of us use it anymore. He also has a company laptop which he uses when he''s working from home.

Karen -- thank you for your advice. Since his company isn''t doing so well right now (lots of lay-offs have happened and there could very well be more in the not-so-distant future), I don''t think he can ask for $ to help him with school/a class. Also, he really would like on the job training since he often stays late doing his job. With the long commute, I don''t think it''s possible to stay even longer than he alreay is (sometimes he leaves at 7, 8, or 9:00, but it takes over an hour/90 minutes+ to get home already).

Sum -- thanks for the suggestion! I pass it along.

I really appreciate everyone chiming in. I agree -- he needs to sit down with a computer and a book and play around on his own time. I just hate it that he''s now been told twice, in two different jobs, that he''d be able to be trained in something and then never be given the time to do it.