How do you and your FI stop from talking in circles?

[zoebartlett]

My FI and I are in a bit of a sticky situation right now. We''ve been arguing over seemingly mundane things but if you listen to Oprah, you''d believe that the things people fight over are not the real things bugging them. My FI and I have had these talks lately about the following, and we''re getting nowhere.

1. My FI works in Boston and we live a tad over an hour away. Every time he talks about work, the phrase "my long commute" is mentioned. I used to have that same exact commute years ago when I worked in another field and I know what it''s like. I empathize but after a year of hearing about it, I''m tired of it. He chose to take this job, so deal with it. Mean, I know, but I''m so sick of hearing about it.

2. We argue about the same things over and over and no matter how many times we try to fix it, the same topics always come up.

3. We''ve gone from friendly diagreements to full on fights. This didn''t really happen all that often before we moved in together (almost 2 years ago). We used to speak so respectfully to each other, even when we disagreed about something, and I think now we''ve "forgotten" to do that.

I wasn''t sure which forum to put this in but I thought I''d put it here since this is where I spend most of my time. How do you handle disagreements? Any advice?

 

[ladypirate]

One thing that has worked for me in the past is sitting down and talking about the fact that you''re fighting. I''m sure neither of you like it, so maybe agree that whenever you get on a path that sounds like it''s leading toward an argument, you could stop and each take a few minutes to regroup your thoughts and let the heated feelings fade.

Also, have you tried journaling? Writing down what is bothering you can help you get to the root of it and then you can speak to him calmly about it and address the real issue without making it into a fight. Good luck!

 

[musey]

I don't know... if I feel like we're not getting at what's actually bothering us, I usually just say something like "Look, this is what it is, and we need to fix it: _______". If something's bothering me, I have zero problem just laying it all out!

Your #2 has happened with us. Big time when we were gearing up to move recently. He really wanted to (it reduces his commute time significantly), I was on the fence because I was happy where we were, it was by my work, etc. etc.

Eventually, I just got completely sick of having the same discussion over and over with no resolution... I had to be completely honest about the reasons I was against it and why I was hesitating. He then was completely honest about his reasons for wanting to. Then I realized that his reasons were a heck of a lot more valid than mine, and that this particular battle fell into the "lose some" category for me.


I think it's all about being completely honest and really laying it all out there. At least, that's what it has been for us. But then, once everything's out in the open, you have to really be honest with yourself about whose argument is more valid, and not just be in it to "win."

 

[musey]

P.S. This:

We used to speak so respectfully to each other, even when we disagreed about something, and I think now we've "forgotten" to do that.

Is really worrisome. If you can't discuss things without respect for each other, then you're treading some dangerous water. Have you considered couples counseling?

 

[door knob solitaire]

Zoe you are not alone. We all do that. Honest.

We have made a commitment to one another to stop. If you are both willing to...it is the only way unless something changes the situation.

In our case we are both so frustrated about something...that it is like a fountain and the "trash" bubbles up as the pump cycles. Just as your thread title...talking in circles. We have learned the pump can be turned off...but it has to be consciencious decision on both of our parts. We usually know what the other is thinking and sometimes we both start laughing where the "____" would have been in the conversation.

Have you seen the movie...LOST IN AMERICA... (read here) well, clift note: (spoiler alert), they sell everything they own, check out of their jobs...and head off in an RV to travel the country with their nest egg. First stop Vegas. She looses everything and is no longer allowed to use the word Nest Egg...or any form of the term. If she wants to say birds nest she has to say round stick where birds live. Well, sometimes out of no where...one of us will say ROUND STICK WHERE BIRDS LIVE...and the other knows what we mean.

Won't you try usig the round stick approach? (it may help to rent the movie!!)

DKS

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 10/10/2007 8:40:23 PM
Author: musey
I don''t know... if I feel like we''re not getting at what''s actually bother us, I usually just say something like ''Look, this is what it is, and we need to fix it: _______''. I don''t have a lot of advice to give on this subject because I feel like it does happen very often. If something''s bothering me, I have zero problem just laying it all out!

Oh, but your #2... that has happened with us--primarily when we were gearing up to move recently. He really wanted to (it reduces his commute time significantly), I was on the fence because I was happy where we were, it was by my work, etc. etc.

Eventually, I just got completely sick of having the same discussion over and over with no resolution... I had to be completely honest about the reasons I was against it and why I was hesitating. He then was completely honest about his reasons for wanting to. Then I realized that his reasons were a heck of a lot more valid than mine, and that this particular battle fell into the ''lose some'' category for me.


I think it''s all about being completely honest and really laying it all out there. At least, that''s what it has been for us. But then, once everything''s out in the open, you have to really be honest with yourself about whose argument is more valid, and not just be in it to ''win.''

My argument is always more valid. I am always right.

Seriously though, we''ve been completely honest with each other, but tonight was actually the first time I told my FI that I''m sick of hearing about his commute and how long it is. My FI keeps an eye out occasionally for job postings closer to home. I''m a teacher and this is my year of getting tenure so my job-searching days are out the window for now. I love my school and the small town community. If either of us is in a position to look elsewhere, it would be my FI.

He wants to buy a house someday in the not so distant future. I''d love that too but we can''t afford it now (or soon, for that matter). My Fi doesn''t think I appreciate his efforts in making the money he''s making for our future (working at a great company that happens to be far away). I do appreciate it and I tell him often but when he drones on and on about his commute I get so tired of it.

 

[zoebartlett]

I''ve been in a relationship before, several years ago, where we''d argue and then eventually sweep things under the rug...until the next time. Eventually I couldn''t stand doing that anymore and my biyfriend at the time was upset as well, so things didn ''t end well. I''m so afraid of that happening again. Talking in circles is no help but we never get anywhere.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Zoe,
I don''t have anything to add about your issue, because well, I''m in the same boat as you. I think learning how to fight civily is something each couple needs to learn on their own with experience. Things like advice from friends and counseling can help give you the tools you need to handle the situation together, but only time and application of those tools will determine the success or failure of your efforts. Some couples get it and some never do. Guess who are the ones who end up in divorce?

From everything I''ve heard about you on PS, you and your FI are a stable, hard working couple. I think you have what it takes to grow through this. Have faith and stick with it. I know what a b*tch commuting into Boston is, I drive up from Providence every day. Luckily on most days I get to ride with my honey but this week for example I''m taking the train and I HATE IT!!

Are there things your FI can do to lessen the monotony of the commute? Does he take the commuter rail? Could he drive instead? What about joining a carpooling group? I mean, there''s no getting around it, the good jobs (money-wise) are in the city and it''s a pain for everyone to get there. I have friends who live in Brookline and they complain that it takes them upwards of 45 minutes on the T every morning. I mean, they''re not even 5 miles from Copley Square and it takes them almost as long as it takes me to drive in! Still, it''s not fair for you to have to hear your FI complain every night. Maybe he doesn''t realize how often he mentions it, or maybe it''s not the commute. Maybe he really isn''t enjoying his job, but doesn''t want to admit it, so he''s suffering through the day only to get fed up at the end of the day. I mean, who really knows?

I wish you the best of luck with this. I know it''s hard and I don''t have any real advice to give, but my thoughts are with you guys.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I think all of us get stuck in that cycle sometimes. My mentality is that if you don''t hate it enough to change it, then it must be bearable. This is an issue in our house as well because my husband hates his job, but won''t quit because they keep giving him raises in order to keep him. It''s obviously working, so he''s made his choice. Case closed. I wish he''d quit because I want him to be happy and we don''t need the money, but it''s his decision. Unfortunately.

Same goes for your FI--it''s obviously worth it to him to make the commute into Boston. I understand--my husband and I both work in Boston and keep moving up the coast in order to shorten our commutes. When we first moved here the commute was 2 hours each way, then 1.5 hours each way, then 1.25 hours each way and now were right at an hour and we''re (finally) happy with the commute. When you''re commuting, 15 minutes each way makes a big difference, is moving just a town or two closer an option? It might not be a big difference in commute time for you, but it could make the commute bearable for him...

I find staying focused to be difficult, which is exhibited by my usually-longwinded posts. As you can imagine, during an argument I want to talk about 18 different things and NOTHING gets solved. So when we really do have an issue about a specific topic, we stay focused on that one topic. If either of us deviates from discussing the real issue, then we tend to correct it. We can talk about other issues after the main issue is solved, but if we don''t stay focused and solve it, it just leads to another argument later.

To be honest, I think it took us a LOOONG time to figure out how to discuss things and even argue in a constructive way. Even after living together for seven years, we still sometimes talk in circles, but we''ve definitely found a way to shed the unimportant stuff and focus on our issues.

 

[Miranda]

I don''t have a FI, but, I do have a DH so I hope what I have to say still applies. When I feel like we are going in circles I start singing the kids song ''There''s a hole in my bucket Dear Liza, Dear Liza''. We end up cracking up. If you know it, that song is so true. I am very solutions based and will not argue for the sake of argument. DH on the other hand will split hairs from here until eternity. There is always a solution. Nobody is helpless or choiceless. Marriage is allllll about compromise. Sometimes you give and sometimes you take. You guys need to remember/learn how to argue (or better yet communicate) constructively and respectfully. Check out some relationship books. I know that when we''ve had a hard time throughout our marriage reading a book at least helps you to feel centered and focused. I recently read this It was easy to read and gave a bit of insight into the male mind. We also listened together to this book on CD. Be warned, both are Christian based books, but, are not offensive as some can be. Good luck!

 

[Sabine]

You definitely got some good advice here! I''m just wondering...how do your fights usually end? Do you just give up without reaching a resolution because you are both tired of fighting? Do you come up with a plan to fix things, but then neither of you follow through? I.e. when FI and I fight about how grossly messy our place is, and start pointing fingers at who hasn''t been doing their ''job'' and we both end up saying, okay from now on I''ll clean this this often, you clean this this often, and then neither of us cleans anything....we end up fighting about it again, same time next week.

I really think coming up with a solution (and compromise is key) that you both agree to, and then sticking to that compromise is the most important thing.

Also, when FI and I get so angry that we stop actually listening to one another and just start being mean, we both try to call time-outs to calm down and resume the DISCUSSION once we''ve had some time to reflect. It''s hard being the one to say, okay we need to stop. Sometimes it takes one of us storming out and slamming a door, only to open it again, say sorry, I need to calm down, and then we can part like civil human beings.

 

[firebirdgold]

Well, I don''t know what to say about the lack of respect when you are talking to each other, other than it''s not a good place to be in.

It''s important to remember that you love each other and that little annoying things pale in comparison.

I do agree on how important compromise is in a relationship. It''s also important to see solutions not problems. Telling him you don''t want to hear about it won''t make him any happier about his commute. Try showing that you sympathize by getting him a little something for the car or doing something in the mornings for him.
My guy also complained constantly about his long commute, but we couldn''t do anything about it at the time. So I bought him a satellite radio for his car. It really made the long hours in the car much more bearable for him. I also would pour him a travel cup of coffee and put it next to his keys every morning. Sure he could do it himself, but little gestures go a long way.

I read a couple of relationship books when we were engaged. The thing that stands out is that all couples argue, what''s important is how the couple argues. Given that you''re not very happy with that part you might want to consider some pre-marriage counseling.
Good Luck

 

[zoebartlett]

Wow, thanks for all the advice!! For the most part, we are really happy and we know we''re on the path to a great marriage. There are times though when it doesn''t seem that way, and whenever my FI and I get into these battles, it''s hard. We talked forever last night, even after I went to bed and was almost asleep, and we didn''t get anywhere. We talked again this afternoon and things seem better.

Basically, he thinks that I don''t give him enough credit for the things he does and I tend to focus on what he doesn''t do. He''s right. I hate it when he tells me things and then doesn''t follow through with them (plans he has to do x, y, or z). That''s what I focus on whenever we disagree about things. It''s hard to compliment him on something when all I see is what hasn''t gotten done yet. He began saying that he won''t tell me those types of things anymore, but later we both agreed that that''s not the best way to communicate. He wants flexibility to do things on his timetable instead of mine. I have a [bad] habit of wanting things done a certain way and within a certain time frame. I suppose that''s a tad controlling. If I didn''t have any expectations though, I feel like things would never get done or it would be up to me to do. In my mind, that''s not a partnership.

I''m really not a mean spirited person. Honest.

 

[rainwood]

I understand the dilemma you have. My husband and I have been married 29 years and have contrasting styles as well. You are going to have to find a way to be be okay with the fact that your fiance is NEVER going to approach the scheduling and accomplishing of things in the same way and on the same timetable you would. Small steps and adjustments are possible but he''s never going to be you. Trust me on this. And if you keep asking for lists and timetables then criticizing when he doesn''t get those things done on time, then he IS going to stop telling you. It''s the logical response.

What tends to work for us is the following: the critical things (paying bills, etc.) get handled by the scheduler. That way procrastination may be annoying but not truly damaging. The nonscheduler person has to be okay with this. If you need certain things done by him, tell him why and it has to be a true and reasonable why. Then follow up at an opportune time in a nice way. Don''t ask for a deadline on things that don''t need them. Be flexible about the things on the nonscheduler''s list and let him make the list. Appreciate and say thank you when something on the nonscheduler''s list gets done, even if in the meantime you got 1000% more stuff done. The carrot instead of the stick. Let the nonscheduler do the kinds of things he is good at and has an interest in. And for the stuff that truly doesn''t have to be done, let it go or do it yourself without getting upset.

That''s one way to mesh and manage 2 really different styles. I''m not saying it''s fair to you, but it''s the most realistic solution. You have to be able to live with the person your guy actually is, in all of his glory and shame, not the one you''d like him to be.

And my guess on the "long commute" comments is that what your guy is really saying is ''I spend 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, doing something I hate, but I''m doing it for us. When you''re toting up all the things I don''t do around here, please give me credit for at least that much.'' And when you tell him to either fix it or shut up about it, he thinks you''re telling him it doesn''t count. And if he doesn''t like his job, then it''s more than 2 hours a day he thinks you''re discounting. I love Indy Gal''s ideas of making the commute better. Homemade CD''s, an iPod connector, something to make it better is a sign that you understand and appreciate his contribution.

I could be wrong because I''m playing amateur psychiatrist here on limited info with people I don''t know. But I''m guessing I''m at least in the ballpark.

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 10/10/2007 9:40:35 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Are there things your FI can do to lessen the monotony of the commute? Does he take the commuter rail? Could he drive instead? What about joining a carpooling group? I mean, there''s no getting around it, the good jobs (money-wise) are in the city and it''s a pain for everyone to get there. I have friends who live in Brookline and they complain that it takes them upwards of 45 minutes on the T every morning. I mean, they''re not even 5 miles from Copley Square and it takes them almost as long as it takes me to drive in! Still, it''s not fair for you to have to hear your FI complain every night. Maybe he doesn''t realize how often he mentions it, or maybe it''s not the commute. Maybe he really isn''t enjoying his job, but doesn''t want to admit it, so he''s suffering through the day only to get fed up at the end of the day. I mean, who really knows?

I wish you the best of luck with this. I know it''s hard and I don''t have any real advice to give, but my thoughts are with you guys.

Thanks HH! Yeah, commuting isn''t fun, especially when a city isn''t THAT far away but it takes FOREVER to get there. I mean, Boston is a little over an hour away but it takes my FI at least 2 hours each way. He usually takes the commuter rail and then the T from North Station. He may be able to work from another one of their offices in a nearby (to Boston) city but still...

Actually, my FI likes his job as a data and reporting analyst. He''s been with this company for a year (he was previously a database admin. on the NH seacoast), and he likes it. He''s been moved around from department to department which is somewhat frustrating, but he''s dealing with it. He likes what he does it''s just the commute. He''s also been toying with the idea of going back to school part-time but he''s undecided about which avenue to take (an MBA or a masters in a computer-type area). Occasionally he looks for other positions closer to home (either in northern MA or southern NH) but he does have a great job with a great company.

 

[Sabine]

Date: 10/11/2007 5:53:14 PM
Author: zoebartlett
Wow, thanks for all the advice!! For the most part, we are really happy and we know we''re on the path to a great marriage. There are times though when it doesn''t seem that way, and whenever my FI and I get into these battles, it''s hard. We talked forever last night, even after I went to bed and was almost asleep, and we didn''t get anywhere. We talked again this afternoon and things seem better.

Basically, he thinks that I don''t give him enough credit for the things he does and I tend to focus on what he doesn''t do. He''s right. I hate it when he tells me things and then doesn''t follow through with them (plans he has to do x, y, or z). That''s what I focus on whenever we disagree about things. It''s hard to compliment him on something when all I see is what hasn''t gotten done yet. He began saying that he won''t tell me those types of things anymore, but later we both agreed that that''s not the best way to communicate. He wants flexibility to do things on his timetable instead of mine. I have a [bad] habit of wanting things done a certain way and within a certain time frame. I suppose that''s a tad controlling. If I didn''t have any expectations though, I feel like things would never get done or it would be up to me to do. In my mind, that''s not a partnership.

I''m really not a mean spirited person. Honest.

Wow Zoe, I think we have a lot in common! I''m more than a tad controlling, but I''m working really hard to learn that I can work as hard as I want to control the things that are "my" things, and trying even harder to let go of controlling the stuff that is "ours." I really like Rainwater''s advice!

 

[zoebartlett]

I know I can be totally unfair at times. I know my FI works hard for us, and he does have a busy day...we both do. My commute is only 30 minutes and as a teacher, my hours are very different. While it may seem that my day ends at 3:30, there''s correcting, planning, meetings, etc. to do after school. I''m totally willing to pick up more chores and to help my FI out...I''m not that selfish, but I firmly believe that if two people live in a place, it should be both people working to do the upkeep. I know it won''t be 50/50 and I''m fine with that, but I don''t want to be the one to do everything. I hope I''m not coming across as b*tchy or anything -- it''s hard to convey thoughts and feelings properly in writing sometimes.

You''re right Rainwood - I do need to say ''thank you" more often. I need to show that I appreciate what my FI DOES do, and not comment on the amount of time it took. Man, that''s going to be hard.

I do love him and I need to show it a little more at times.

 

[Pandora II]

The only worrying thing you have said is that you feel that you are not being respectful to each other - and that is something you might well want to get couples counselling for in the very near future.

They can teach you how to have ''discussions'' rather than rows.


Re. The commute - for myself, I won''t live more than 30 minutes maximum from my job. FI had one where it was 1.5hrs so he just arranged to work from home - I still don''t know how he swung it because no-one else in the company did that!

Seems to my that your FI is wanting to move nearer, but doesn''t want to ask you to move your job. So he''s dropping hints in the hope that you will offer.

 

[risingsun]

Making a long, daily commute to work can take its toll on the individual and the relationship. I would really listen to what he is saying. You both may need to consider a compromise regarding where you live and work. If I had to spend four hours a day travelling to my job, I would become quite resentful of the situation.

 

[zoebartlett]

Well I have good news to report. My FI''s new boss (he was recently transferred to a new deptartment at his company) made a comment to him yesterday that she wouldn''t be in tomorrow (today, Friday). Then she told him that she doesn''t typcially work on Fridays -- she works 4 eight to ten hour days instead. My FI took that opportunity to inquire about that, to see if it was possible for him to do something like that. They also started talking about telecommuting. His boss said that as long as the person doesn''t always choose the same day and he/she doesn''t have any appointments or meetings, it''s fine with her if that person wants to work from home. All they have to do is send her an e-mail letting her know from week to week if that person is going to be making that arrangement. Since my FI is so new to this department, he''s going to wait a few weeks to start doing this, but it looks like he''ll try to work something out to either telecommute one day per week or work 4 longer days. I think the former would actually be my FI''s preference.