How is this possible? New rock ID

[T L]

This app claims to have high accuracy identifying colored gems and other materials. The ad even stated it could tell a real emerald from fake. I could not link the ad I found on Instagram, but I think with today’s expert deceptions and synthetics, this app claims to be a bit too good to be true. Also, for gems that look close in color, and properties, how do you tell the difference with a smartphone camera?

‎Rock Identifier: Stone ID

‎Rock Identifier is an all-in-one stone, crystal, mineral, and gemstone identifier. Simply take or upload a photo of a rock or crystal, and the app will tell you all about it in seconds. Want to know the name of a stone you discovered in your rock hounding? Are you curious about the different pro…

apps.apple.com

 

[Avondale]

Okay this is interesting!

I downloaded the app and tested it quickly with 5 stones. Here are the results:

1. I used it on my blue sapphire ring. It did correctly identify sapphire, but it also had suggestions for glass and tanzanite.

2. I took a photo of my glass cat's eye earrings that PS recently helped me identify. Nailed it first guess, had second guess for chrysoberyl and one other thing I forgot.

3. Next was dalmatian jasper. All three of its guesses were wrong. The app allows you to enter the correct name if you so wish.

4. I tried it with my faceted rose quartz ring. It guessed just quartz. Close enough. It also recognised the diamonds.

5. Last was a piece of Lepidolite rough. I guess the app was 100% certain on it because I didn't have second or third guesses, or the option to submit a different name. Or I could've just messed it up.

So, my conclusion:
It doesn't even attempt to distinguish between earth mined and synthetic. Maybe what the ad meant was it can identify between emerald and green glass.
It doesn't guarantee proper identification, more it just guesses what the stone most probably is.
It uses user input to further develop its database which is how it probably got good enough and also how it's probably going to get even better in time.

 

[Autumn in New England]

First, really interesting post, @T L! Second, this is what I love about PS. Our @Avondale wasted zero time in taking this experiment to task!! Fascinating results. I think you nailed the conclusion too.

 

[T L]

Okay this is interesting!

I downloaded the app and tested it quickly with 5 stones. Here are the results:

1. I used it on my blue sapphire ring. It did correctly identify sapphire, but it also had suggestions for glass and tanzanite.

2. I took a photo of my glass cat's eye earrings that PS recently helped me identify. Nailed it first guess, had second guess for chrysoberyl and one other thing I forgot.

3. Next was dalmatian jasper. All three of its guesses were wrong. The app allows you to enter the correct name if you so wish.

4. I tried it with my faceted rose quartz ring. It guessed just quartz. Close enough. It also recognised the diamonds.

5. Last was a piece of Lepidolite rough. I guess the app was 100% certain on it because I didn't have second or third guesses, or the option to submit a different name. Or I could've just messed it up.

So, my conclusion:
It doesn't even attempt to distinguish between earth mined and synthetic. Maybe what the ad meant was it can identify between emerald and green glass.
It doesn't guarantee proper identification, more it just guesses what the stone most probably is.
It uses user input to further develop its database which is how it probably got good enough and also how it's probably going to get even better in time.

Thank you!! Do you have a spinel to test?

 

[Avondale]

Thank you!! Do you have a spinel to test?

Nope, but it can also identify pictures from gallery. I just checked a spinel ring. The app was 100% positive it was a ruby. And indeed, when it's certain, it doesn't offer any other guesses. It still allows you to input the correct stone, though.

 

[T L]

Nope, but it can also identify pictures from gallery. I just checked a spinel ring. The app was 100% positive it was a ruby. And indeed, when it's certain, it doesn't offer any other guesses. It still allows you to input the correct stone, though.

Ok, well this is not replacing a human gemologist any time soon! Lol!

 

[Avondale]

Ok, well this is not replacing a human gemologist any time soon! Lol!

Nuh-huh. One day, in the not too distant future, we might have AIs who can identify gemstones by high quality high magnification images. But anything that uses a single picture taken with a phone camera could never aspire to such goals.

It is fun, though. I'm even gonna keep the app for a while. If there's anything you're curious about how it would identify, just post a picture and I'll check it.

 

[T L]

Nuh-huh. One day, in the not too distant future, we might have AIs who can identify gemstones by high quality high magnification images. But anything that uses a single picture taken with a phone camera could never aspire to such goals.

It is fun, though. I'm even gonna keep the app for a while. If there's anything you're curious about how it would identify, just post a picture and I'll check it.

Just don’t keep it beyond the trial period, or they’ll charge you. Thanks for testing it!!

 

[cloud_less]

Also, for gems that look close in color, and properties, how do you tell the difference with a smartphone camera?

Ohhh this is interesting! When we look at a gem we guess what it is based on several clearly defined aspects such as color and shape. This app looks like some application of machine learning, trained with a labeled database of gem photos. AI picks up features in the photo that might not be human-understandable, potentially granting more power to tell the difference.

Nuh-huh. One day, in the not too distant future, we might have AIs who can identify gemstones by high quality high magnification images.

Somewhat related: I think a lot of what gemological labs do are fully within the scope of current AI technology! Take sapphire as an example, I'd imagine using a programmed pipeline with a trained algorithm to identify internal features and tell the geographical origin and treatment.

 

[Avondale]

Just don’t keep it beyond the trial period, or they’ll charge you. Thanks for testing it!!

Oh, it doesn’t require a subscription for the base identification service! I haven’t started the trial period. If you want to read about the gems you “identify”, then you need to be subscribed to them, but just taking the pictures and having the app guess what they are is accessible without limitation. After all, they rely on users to train their algorithms, it wouldn’t be wise to limit their user base numbers only to people who pay them.

 

[VividRed]

My guess is that the app runs on an algorithm that compares the input color with a given set of stones. The result are based on matches and a certain probability.

That is exactly what we do when looking at stones, but better. Which is imperfect.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i want to try this but downloading the app would kill whatever storage space i have left
so I'll have to live all the fun through you guys

 

[T L]

My guess is that the app runs on an algorithm that compares the input color with a given set of stones. The result are based on matches and a certain probability.

That is exactly what we do when looking at stones, but better. Which is imperfect.

The fact of the matter is that this is not a substitute for a microscope and a refractometer, among other things. I mean a spinel can look like a tanzanite, ruby or sapphire, but unless you have specialized equipment, and the stone in hand, no smartphone camera can be anywhere near as precise in determining a gem. Unfortunately, the advertisement for this app implies it can.

 

[VividRed]

The fact of the matter is that this is not a substitute for a microscope and a refractometer, among other things. I mean a spinel can look like a tanzanite, ruby or sapphire, but unless you have specialized equipment, and the stone in hand, no smartphone camera can be anywhere near as precise in determining a gem. Unfortunately, the advertisement for this app implies it can.

Which is deceptive at best

 

[T L]

Which is deceptive at best

I just worry about people using this to deceive others.

 

[Rfisher]

I just worry about people using this to deceive others.

No more than what currently happens.

Plenty of ‘I just scored this deal on an auction and I’ve done my online research for micro inclusion images and presidium tested and immersion whatnot and I think it’s actually a valuable gem - I’ll sell it to you for what I think it’s worth…..’
on IG and even here over the years.

Bottom line - there’s going to be people who want and need lab reports, those who don’t, those who gamble and make out, those who gamble and lose out. And those who plain don’t care to know anything different.

I don’t see this app changing the qty of scammers (intentional or not) nor duped recipients already out there.

 

[LilAlex]

There are apps for everything -- identifying birds, tress, constellations. Some are great; some are useless gimmicks. But we all know that gem ID is not purely visual so this app could not be better than our looking at a photo here and saying "can't tell."

Now it could use AI and a behind-the-scenes learning set of a million stones and their corresponding IDs -- and thereby tell you that your stone looks just like a natural blue sapphire. But if the learning data set did not have lab-created sapphire, it would never be able to say lab or natural sapphire. This is true of all of these AI/machine learning-based apps -- GIGO, as they say.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i want to try out my fake larimar i got duped into and see if it knows its dyed quartz

 

[VividRed]

I will ID any stone for free, just send them to me per post and I shall tell you.

Preferably red, those are my favorites…ehm, I mean: the ones I know best.

Here is my address: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollface

 

[jordyonbass]

Ok, well this is not replacing a human gemologist any time soon! Lol!

This reminds me a lot of my other job. My other line of work is Land Surveying and occasionally we see apps come out in phones, claiming to be able to do the same job as that of a trained Land Surveyor with a total station kit worth tens of thousands of dollars. In reality, they can do a very basic feature and contour mapping but they fail to work properly when there's obstructions as minor as long grass and when you're working in a new development area like most land surveyors do there is PLENTY of problems like that you need to navigate.

I have no doubt in my mind that this app is probably no different to the Surveying apps that I see pop up, they give you a very rough guide at best but if you want the highest accuracy possible - you need the right tools and/or some experience on how to use then.

 

[Rfisher]

Like WebMd ‘s symptom tracker!