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How the diamond trade views using more than one major lab report for an individual diamond

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,733
There has been discussion in another thread about the use of "triple certification" of diamonds being listed by a vendor. When you look at the resulting grades, you might draw conclusions based on a rather small sample which might be right or may send you down a rabbit hole. The trade is definitely aware of the somewhat subjective nature of diamond color and clarity grading. What to do about it has been boiled down to rather a simple model for the sake of a normal trade convention and for making the pricing process understandable, explainable and consistent. No one is saying it is correct mathematical methodology, but members of the diamond trade are not rocket scientists and pricing isn't a life or death calculation.

When there is a GIA report on a diamond, that report is the price setter regardless of any other report from another lab. When there is only one or more lab report from other labs, not GIA, dealers will haggle and bicker over perceived grading softness and arrive at a price if their view of a GIA supplied grade would differ. They will try any angle to attack an asking price, especially on a diamond lacking the GIA paperwork. Right or wrong, that's the angle of attack. You can see, that there are reasons to make counter offers and request some discounts when there is no GIA report. You may also understand that the GIA is not always correct, but you must understand the "convention" of doing the diamond business in the US is to simply accept the GIA grading as fate. When the GIA has made an error substantial enough to create a problem between dealers, the diamond is often returned to GIA for a re-grading. We just need to live with it for now. This has been going on a long time, so there is no rush to alter the dealer side of things. So far, machine grading has not moved the color and clarity process to an absolute process.

At the consumer level, people want to believe that fairness dictates we respect the results of several very good labs with some equality. What that does is counter to the convention of the trade which sets asking prices at retail based on GIA reports when they exist. You might not like it mathematically, but the consumer is not the convention setting body for the diamond wholesale business. It is very good to see the differences from lab to lab. This provides insight into the level of assurance that can be obtained by multiple reports. If a diamond is offered without a GIA report, then the consumer has every right to do exactly what diamond dealers do to one another all the time. "Make an offer". However, the consuming public does not know how to make their own grading estimate better than any of these highly skilled labs. Making an offer based on innuendo and just partial knowledge is somewhat an insult and hardly going to be of much concern to a seller. The basis of making an offer is on reasonably sure knowledge earned by years of experience, not based on a few diamonds which show labs don't all grade identically.

Consumers should do just as the trade does. Look at the GIA grading as the price setting paperwork and expect some variances from all other grading establishments. No lab is perfect, but none of the major labs appear to be crooks, either.

For sure, the cost of multiple reports will be born by the consumer. If it makes them confident to buy, then their added costs will be covered. If it creates doubt and anxiety, then multiple reports will not make sales increase, and they'll be dropped before becoming a commonplace retail tactic.

Lab reports, by respected labs, should be seen as aiding the consumer to make a decision on a purchase. A consumer who wants double or triple lab reports may be happier or made more confused. I fear the latter, but we all are individuals. Very few vendors double or triple cert their diamonds. Let's see how it goes and enjoy this moment when transparency rules. The diamond business was totally opaque in the 1950's and has slowly evolved to what is a nearly transparent business today. It has been a fairly rapid change. Such change stresses the dealers, their banks and their customers. Seeing how this all works out over the coming months and years is bound to be of interest to Pricescope participants. Enjoy the ride!
 
Very interesting, oldminer…thanks! To me, two lab reports on the same stone (GIA and AGS) sounds fine but as soon as I see three lab reports, I’m overwhelmed and it’s too much. I know that many people might like the additional information but to me, it’s too much.
 
Excellent analysis Dave!
Anytime I am offered any sort of major diamond sans GIA or AGSL report I am skeptical.
In fact in many cases AGSL is used by dealers after first submitting to GIA and they’re unhappy with the grade.
There was a case of a large stone with an AGSL color grade of J.
I respect AGS grades...... but this was as clear cut case of grade shopping.......the stone was a weak J.....which is basically the same thing as a strong K color in terms of how it looked.
But the price difference between J and K on a large stone is massive.
As David points out, grading is subjective to a degree.
Dealers WILL try t take advantage of this when they can
 
A complex topic.
Dave you will remember well this survey we did 15 years ago.
We sent a bunch of diamonds to GIA, AGS and EGL.
Leonid did some fancy stats and math / data base stuff and calculated the best buying would have been for the stones as EGL.

So as Dave says - it is complex when dealers are negotiating - I often bought smaller stones with IGI and other labs when I years ago visited India frequently on buying and research trips. It was lots of fun haggling over grades!

Here is the survey:
 
In the 1st tier auction scenes (Christies, Sotheby's et-al), super rare colored gems require 2 or even 3 respected lab reports for assurances..., but colored gems are a much more complexed subject than diamonds, and I fully understand why...

For diamonds.., the rarer the material only one lab trumps on all accounts.., GIA!
The only extra assurance that I notice today regularly is the condition for current and updated GIA report to finalize a sale!

Regarding cut quality..., I can understand the peace of mind consumers get when they purchase AGS 0 (cut) type diamonds..., but also believe available tools and technologies can help assure great cuts especially for PS educated consumers etc...
 
Given a tolerance of ONE +/- grade on color & clarity, I think triple reports confirm that grading overall is pretty consistent when employing reputable labs. My own thoughts are the variance we see is more related to stones that sit on the border of a particular color or clarity. One lab may view them slightly different than another. So the multiple lab reports are pinpointing "borderline" stones.

I personally like having two reports. AGS for precision & cut metrics, and GIA for color and the fact it's more generally accepted as the price setter. Between those two I feel you have a really good representation of what you are truly buying and I think that boosts consumer confidence -- assuming the consumer is educated enough to appreciate that aspect. And that's a major assumption as I truly don't believe the average consumer cares that much. Which gets back to @diagem's point that if you are savvy enough to appreciate AGS and GIA reports both, you are likely savvy enough to be okay without both too.

Of course, the unspoken element is the WHY behind the different reports. Since Wolf/HPD are the only ones I know offering triple reports, I will share my own opinions about why I think they chose the 3 different labs. All opinion, no facts, so please take as such:

AGS
Gotta have it. You are a H&A vendor touting the best cut stones. The consumers seeking this level of precision will be seeking that report. Not having it hurts you IMO.

GCAL
I believe they are primarily being used for photo & video services. The lab report is gravy.

GIA
If you are going to have two other reports, and tout having the best diamonds then why not add the "price setter" in the group. Also, it allows them to better market to domestic and international customers that insist on GIA reports.

Having 3 reports allows you to also market your brand differently. Price is a driver for most consumers, but this allows you to provide something unique & extra others aren't yet providing and may help secure market share on a metric other than low price. The difficult part is finding that sweet spot where consumers will pay a little more for perceived value without turning them off because prices are too high.
 
Given a tolerance of ONE +/- grade on color & clarity, I think triple reports confirm that grading overall is pretty consistent when employing reputable labs. My own thoughts are the variance we see is more related to stones that sit on the border of a particular color or clarity. One lab may view them slightly different than another. So the multiple lab reports are pinpointing "borderline" stones.

I personally like having two reports. AGS for precision & cut metrics, and GIA for color and the fact it's more generally accepted as the price setter. Between those two I feel you have a really good representation of what you are truly buying and I think that boosts consumer confidence -- assuming the consumer is educated enough to appreciate that aspect. And that's a major assumption as I truly don't believe the average consumer cares that much. Which gets back to @diagem's point that if you are savvy enough to appreciate AGS and GIA reports both, you are likely savvy enough to be okay without both too.

Of course, the unspoken element is the WHY behind the different reports. Since Wolf/HPD are the only ones I know offering triple reports, I will share my own opinions about why I think they chose the 3 different labs. All opinion, no facts, so please take as such:

AGS
Gotta have it. You are a H&A vendor touting the best cut stones. The consumers seeking this level of precision will be seeking that report. Not having it hurts you IMO.

GCAL
I believe they are primarily being used for photo & video services. The lab report is gravy.

GIA
If you are going to have two other reports, and tout having the best diamonds then why not add the "price setter" in the group. Also, it allows them to better market to domestic and international customers that insist on GIA reports.

Having 3 reports allows you to also market your brand differently. Price is a driver for most consumers, but this allows you to provide something unique & extra others aren't yet providing and may help secure market share on a metric other than low price. The difficult part is finding that sweet spot where consumers will pay a little more for perceived value without turning them off because prices are too high.

@sledge,

You are very close to our reasoning for using three reports. When Wolf|CBI receives the diamonds from CBI, they are sent to GCal for a Gemprint, a laser photographic fingerprint, and the very fine photography that GCal provides. We like the ability to use third party photography rather than taking our own. The grading at GCal is very tight which I also appreciate.

When the diamonds are finished at GCal, they are sent to AGS for the second report as AGS is currently the gold standard for cut grading.

After AGS, the diamonds are sent to GIA, the gold standard for color and clarity grading. If the three labs are not in agreement for color and clarity grading, we use the GIA report for pricing.

After the GIA report the diamond is returned to GCal to have the identity confirmed by the Gemprint, thus avoiding any possibility of accidental mistaken identity while at the labs.

We believe that this provides a much higher level of transparency to our clients.

Wink
 
I view it as being very very brave!
Back during the GIA bribery scandal l talked to a bunch of vendors about doing double reports and the near universal answer was a form of: why would I want to open myself to that headache?????
One vendor did try gia/ags duel reports for a short time on a small amount of stones.
 
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