I think I blew my interview.

[Gypsy]

So I imposed a PS bann on myself so that I spent time studying up and prepping for my interview today.

And well... the first three went fine. Then number four. After about 1 minute I understood why number 3 had asked me how I deal with people with difficult personalities. Numbers 3 and 4 would have been my peers in this position. Other team members. Number 4 was seriously lacking in basic courtesy and personal skills.

So she grills me with questions that, frankly make no sense, unless the interview is a written exam... and then ends the interview without allowing me a no chance to ask her any questions. SO... I ask her if she has the time to answer some of my questions. She looks perplexed that I would have questions, says she's running late, but sits back down.

So I ask her about the team and the personalities. And she's giving me vague answers that don't tell me anything. Then I ask about the Team Manager's style and personality. More vagueness.

SO... I remember that number 3 had said that number 4 had just had her annual review and had been nervous about it before hand.

SO I ask number four if she felt her review was fair and that her manager had prepared her for it... AND she cut me off... said "That's none of your business this interview is over."

And stood up to show me the door.

Now I was baffled, because I wasn't asking her what was in her review. But rather about her manager's fairness. And so I tried to re-phrase it. And she just glared at me, repeated that the interview was over and kicked me out.

YIKES.

Cross that job off the list. Next.

Plus demon boss pulled a whole new set of employment violations with me on Friday and had me RABIDLY pissed off. And now I've got to go back to work tomorrow and deal with that. I think I'm just going to report her to HR and get it done with. I now have written proof of her absuse.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Hmm... that's patently odd. Methinks someone didn't get the most favorable of reviews and doesn't want to discuss it with the potential competition

.

If this is your peer, and she is known to have a difficult personality, are you sure you even want this job? If she acts like this at an *interview* heck knows how she's act on a daily basis.

I say keep looking until you find a company with a healthier work environment.

Best of luck!

 

[Independent Gal]

Wellll, I don''t think I would have brought that up myself. I mean, if you knew it was a ''button'', why push it?

That said, if it''s not a healthy environment, you don''t want to work there. But you could maybe ask those kinds of q''s after an offer, but before you accept it?

 

[TravelingGal]

Oh Gypsy...hope you get the job, but IMHO, yes you overstepped a bit by asking her about the review, even though your intent was focused on the manager''s fairness. You could have asked that in a way that didn''t reference the reviews. Job performance reviews are confidential and probably even the mention of that would get her panties in a bunch. I know that if I were interviewing someone and they asked me that, I would raise an eyebrow. But maybe it''s just me and others will have more insight.

If she was running late, I think you should have backed off a bit and have been more aware of her time. And number 3 probably overstepped her boundaries by telling you what she did.

 

[rockzilla]

I agree with Indy on this one - I would never think to ask ANYONE about their review (even if it is just about the reviewer) unless I was reasonably close with them. Its a very personal thing - one of those things thats okay to talk about if the other person brings it up, but almost never OK to mention on your own.

Even if you were just asking about the "process" - "do you think your review was fair" can push all kinds of buttons. Kind of like asking, "what was your bonus this year?" even if you are just wondering what kind of bonuses they give out, I can see how (especially an already sensitive person) would be taken back by the line of questioning.

I think the most you could have gotten away with here would be a "How does the review process work at this company?" But even with this woman, who you knew was sensitive about the review and wasn''t very receptive to answering questions, I probably would have left it off the table.

 

[neatfreak]

#3 overstepped, then you followed by asking #4 about her review which she was obviously sore about. If she really did get a bad review and everyone else liked you, you could still be ok! But if there is that much insider gossip and animosity there it might not be the healthiest environment to work in...

 

[Gypsy]

Yeah. I agree with you all that I crossed the line, and should have stated it altogether differently. Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it. Next time I'll know better.

Live and learn. No mentions of reviews or bonuses (not that I talked about those) from here on out. Number 3 probably did cross a line as well, and may have opened the way for me to stick my foot in my mouth big time. But two wrongs don't make it right. We'll see what happens.

I had to call the hiring manager right now anyway about some other concerns I had that came up (things that I needed clarification on about the job and the department) and did mention the 'disconnect' with number 4 to him... I told him very honestly what I asked, apologized for overstepping the boundary. So we'll see what happens. I will have to consider the job pretty carefully if I do get an offer as Number 4 really was an unpleasant surprise (and I'm saying this about the rest of the interview not the 'review' part of it). Apparently she's very good at what she does. But then again so is demon boss. Doesn't mean I want to work with her.

To clarify something though... I didn't know she was sensitive about it, and didn't know I was pushing a button. What number 3 said is that number 4 was nervous, and asked her if the manager was fair... and number 3 said yes, he was and that she had nothing to worry about in terms of unpleasant surprises. So I thought (mistakenly, clearly) to follow up on what number 3 said to see if number 4 felt number 3's advice about the manager was right. If I had known it was a hot button, I wouldn't have gone there. Not suicidal.

 

[Rhea]

Ouch! I hope it went better than how you perceived it. It does sound like a somewhat hostel environment, which isn''t good, but if you do get offered the job and take it at least you already know how everyone works together! When do you find out?

 

[omieluv]

Okay, you know by now that asking about the review was probably not the best thing to do. However, red flags went up in my head the instant you mentioned she grilled you and then did not allow you to ask any questions. I know, she could have been running late, but that was not your problem. Given your experience with her, could you see working with her anyway?

 

[decodelighted]

Ooof. Yes, button -- why push it? That was def. your choice to a) bring that up and b) phrase it in the way you did. Can you detect any malice in your subconscious -- peeved that she was a bad interviewer & an unpleasant person ... so you decided to stick her where it hurts? Really examine that. It''s a very real human instinct albeit not a higher one.

BUT -- I kinda think you got played. Would not be surprised to find out that #3 is the *real* beeatch around the office. Way more clever than #4 -- after all, she set you up ... (passive aggressive gossip, no?) ... and then you took the bait & rattled the less savvy, more awkward #4 ultimately shooting yourself in the foot. I mean maybe you could learn to work with difficult PEERS. That''s different than a tyrant of a BOSS.

 

[Gypsy]

I find out in 2 days. We''ll see.

Don''t know if I want the job now, or not.

On the one hand number 4 would be a peer-- not my boss. And I like the manager. And it''s a better company with a lot of advantages. And I''d get away from Demon boss.

On the other hand... I would like to not have to deal with number 4 and her attitude. She was grilling me on my bar admission too. Just could NOT get why I wouldn''t give up my bar standing if I took the job. She kept asking about it. "But this position doesn''t need it"... "Are you aware this isn''t a Legal position, if so then why keep your bar admission current"... "You say you don''t want to be practicing, that''s why you''re looking at this position, but you''re not going to give up your bar admission, so are you sure you don''t really want to be practicing?" she was seriously harping. I finally just told her it was a personal decision-- that my bar standing was an achievement I took pride in and was not going to give up.

 

[omieluv]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:12:27 PM
Author: Gypsy
I find out in 2 days. We''ll see.

Don''t know if I want the job now, or not.

On the one hand number 4 would be a peer-- not my boss. And I like the manager. And it''s a better company with a lot of advantages. And I''d get away from Demon boss.

On the other hand... I would like to not have to deal with number 4 and her attitude. She was grilling me on my bar admission too. Just could NOT get why I wouldn''t give up my bar standing if I took the job. She kept asking about it. ''But this position doesn''t need it''... ''Are you aware this isn''t a Legal position, if so then why keep your bar admission current''... ''You say you don''t want to be practicing, that''s why you''re looking at this position, but you''re not going to give up your bar admission, so are you sure you don''t really want to be practicing?'' she was seriously harping. I finally just told her it was a personal decision-- that my bar standing was an achievement I took pride in and was not going to give up.

I think you addressed #4''s question very well and I think she was probing you like that because she questions your committment to a non legal role.

 

[Gypsy]

Don''t know Omi. Will have to think about it somemore. I got nervous when I found out the manager is the only guy, and that the other two are women. Then when I asked them about their team they both said that the environment was one where differences were respectfully discussed and that people respected one another''s differences of opinion. Which I thought was strange... I mean, if someone asks you about your team dynamtics instead of talking about team work and how people help one another out, you get defensive about your arguements and make it a point to emphasize that disagreements are handled in a professional way. I mean, how many disagreements are we talking about here? Red flag.

And number 4 said that what she liked best about the manager is that he gave her autonomy. Hmm. Doesn''t sound like a lot fo teamwork.



Deco.. yeah, I''m not real sophisticated with that stuff. But you could be right, hard to tell who the b*tch really is. Number 3 was pretty open and freindly, but she had definite barriers and teeth. Number 3 was rude. She came into the room where I was interviewing, told me we are going to a different room, then without taking the time to wait for me to gather my things starts walking down the hall. I scrambled to keep up with her. Tried small talk which she outright avoided, then conscended to me throughout the interview. So while I genuinely didn''t think the review was a hot button... (though number 3 would have known that), there was definite irritation when she ended the interview without giving me the chance to ask a single question. That''s why I forced the issue.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:12:27 PM
Author: Gypsy
She was grilling me on my bar admission too. Just could NOT get why I wouldn''t give up my bar standing if I took the job. She kept asking about it. ''But this position doesn''t need it''... ''Are you aware this isn''t a Legal position, if so then why keep your bar admission current''... ''You say you don''t want to be practicing, that''s why you''re looking at this position, but you''re not going to give up your bar admission, so are you sure you don''t really want to be practicing?'' she was seriously harping. I finally just told her it was a personal decision-- that my bar standing was an achievement I took pride in and was not going to give up.

OUCH. She sounds jealous or something...was this before or after the review comments?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:12:18 PM
Author: decodelighted
Ooof. Yes, button -- why push it? That was def. your choice to a) bring that up and b) phrase it in the way you did. Can you detect any malice in your subconscious -- peeved that she was a bad interviewer & an unpleasant person ... so you decided to stick her where it hurts? Really examine that. It''s a very real human instinct albeit not a higher one.

BUT -- I kinda think you got played. Would not be surprised to find out that #3 is the *real* beeatch around the office. Way more clever than #4 -- after all, she set you up ... (passive aggressive gossip, no?) ... and then you took the bait & rattled the less savvy, more awkward #4 ultimately shooting yourself in the foot. I mean maybe you could learn to work with difficult PEERS. That''s different than a tyrant of a BOSS.

I agree...unless she''s a total numbnut. What kind of person tells an interviewee that kind of information?

Gypsy, there are always going to be difficult people in the workplace. The challenge and growth comes from learning how to work with people from ALL walks of life and types of personalities. My cousin goes from job to job because she always finds someone at work she can''t stand. I''m not sure she understands yet that going to a new workplace does not fix the problem.

Now that I work from home, I have to be the person I can''t stand to fill the quota.

 

[omieluv]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:22:12 PM
Author: Gypsy
Don't know Omi. Will have to think about it somemore. I got nervous when I found out the manager is the only guy, and that the other two are women. Then when I asked them about their team they both said that the environment was one where differences were respectfully discussed and that people respected one another's differences of opinion. Which I thought was strange... I mean, if someone asks you about your team dynamtics instead of talking about team work and how people help one another out, you get defensive about your arguements and make it a point to emphasize that disagreements are handled in a professional way. I mean, how many disagreements are we talking about here? Red flag.

And number 4 said that what she liked best about the manager is that he gave her autonomy. Hmm. Doesn't sound like a lot fo teamwork.



Deco.. yeah, I'm not real sophisticated with that stuff. But you could be right, hard to tell who the b*tch really is. Number 3 was pretty open and freindly, but she had definite barriers and teeth. Number 3 was rude. She came into the room where I was interviewing, told me we are going to a different room, then without taking the time to wait for me to gather my things starts walking down the hall. I scrambled to keep up with her. Tried small talk which she outright avoided, then conscended to me throughout the interview. So while I genuinely didn't think the review was a hot button... (though number 3 would have known that), there was definite irritation when she ended the interview without giving me the chance to ask a single question. That's why I forced the issue.

The more I hear of your experience, the more I do not like it. It might be a good job, but you have to think...is the job going to be good for you? What TG says is also true about being challenging people in the workplace. You just need to figure out if the overall culture of the organization + the department you would be working in is a fit for your workstyle.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:19:16 PM
Author: omieluv

Date: 5/19/2008 6:12:27 PM
Author: Gypsy
I find out in 2 days. We''ll see.

Don''t know if I want the job now, or not.

On the one hand number 4 would be a peer-- not my boss. And I like the manager. And it''s a better company with a lot of advantages. And I''d get away from Demon boss.

On the other hand... I would like to not have to deal with number 4 and her attitude. She was grilling me on my bar admission too. Just could NOT get why I wouldn''t give up my bar standing if I took the job. She kept asking about it. ''But this position doesn''t need it''... ''Are you aware this isn''t a Legal position, if so then why keep your bar admission current''... ''You say you don''t want to be practicing, that''s why you''re looking at this position, but you''re not going to give up your bar admission, so are you sure you don''t really want to be practicing?'' she was seriously harping. I finally just told her it was a personal decision-- that my bar standing was an achievement I took pride in and was not going to give up.

I think you addressed #4''s question very well and I think she was probing you like that because she questions your committment to a non legal role.

Yeah. I agree. But what irked me about it is that I was screened for that by the hiring manager and the recruiter. She''s the most junior person I interviewed with, and she was seriously acting like she was the gatekeeper.

It crossed my mind that she was threatened though. Because all the other interviewers said that her biggest strength was her ability to draft legal language quickly and easily. And that number 3''s strength was not in drafting language... she can do it, but not effortlessly like Number 4. And so Number 4 kept asking how I would draft this and that. And I was like... um, do you want me to just start verbally drafting a contract for you? And not any specific type of contract a "blanket" contract. Um, what do you want the blanket to cover lady???!!!???

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:22:12 PM
Author: Gypsy
Don''t know Omi. Will have to think about it somemore. I got nervous when I found out the manager is the only guy, and that the other two are women. Then when I asked them about their team they both said that the environment was one where differences were respectfully discussed and that people respected one another''s differences of opinion. Which I thought was strange... I mean, if someone asks you about your team dynamtics instead of talking about team work and how people help one another out, you get defensive about your arguements and make it a point to emphasize that disagreements are handled in a professional way. I mean, how many disagreements are we talking about here? Red flag.

And number 4 said that what she liked best about the manager is that he gave her autonomy. Hmm. Doesn''t sound like a lot fo teamwork.



Deco.. yeah, I''m not real sophisticated with that stuff. But you could be right, hard to tell who the b*tch really is. Number 3 was pretty open and freindly, but she had definite barriers and teeth. Number 3 was rude. She came into the room where I was interviewing, told me we are going to a different room, then without taking the time to wait for me to gather my things starts walking down the hall. I scrambled to keep up with her. Tried small talk which she outright avoided, then conscended to me throughout the interview. So while I genuinely didn''t think the review was a hot button... (though number 3 would have known that), there was definite irritation when she ended the interview without giving me the chance to ask a single question. That''s why I forced the issue.

Gypsy, why would you *force* any issue in an interview? Isn''t the point of an interview to be likable and desirable to hire? I don''t mean to sound rude here, but I''m not sure why you would do that. I guess I''m always kind of interested in people''s interview etiquette.

Kind of off topic, but TGuy interviewed for a job and did get it. He later found out one of the candidates was lame enough to leave his bluetooth ear thingie in his ear the entire interview...I couldn''t believe it!

 

[omieluv]

Oh wow #4 sounds like she would be a challenege. Do see yourself being able to handle her?

 

[strmrdr]

By the sounds of it you didnt blow the interview, they blew the interview with you.
Who would want to work there with all that going on?

 

[Gypsy]

WAY before Neatfreak. WAY... like her opening salvo. And then for the next 20 minutes.

TG... I agree. There are always going to be difficult people who are a PITA. I''m pretty good at getting along wtih most people, that''s something I get a lot of praise at (not from Demon Boss... she doesn''t do praise) work for. I think I can manage them. And at least I have CLUE that it could be a problem from the get go. And I know at a minimum who to watch out for. (Both of them). And they AREN''T my boss. That''s a big deal.


Yeah... I have a couple of days before I hear anything, and have some thinking to do in the interim. Demon boss is only getting worse though. So I may take a risk if nothing else is available on the horizon and I''m offered the job. The whole place sounds a bit chaotic and disorganized though. Would prefer a more settled and defined contracts department-- this one is just finding its feet.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:24:38 PM
Author: TravelingGal
The challenge and growth comes from learning how to work with people from ALL walks of life and types of personalities. My cousin goes from job to job because she always finds someone at work she can''t stand. I''m not sure she understands yet that going to a new workplace does not fix the problem.

WEEEERD! I was just talking to a pal about this the other day. He was deciding whether or not to take an AWESOME job because he thought the people interviewing him, who would be his peers, were smug, Type A, a bit aggressive in their questioning & generally not "chill". Now he''d only spend a couple of hours with them -- and there was only one ringleader dude who was super um gruff. But!! He took the job. I was telling him that its so hard to find AWESOME jobs -- and EVERY JOB has difficult people. Wherever you go you have to learn to deal with a new type of AWFUL HUMAN. Its a learning curve NO ONE gets to avoid (or very, very few). These days the chances of finding an AWESOME JOB with all AWESOME PEOPLE -- ha!

And Gyp -- anyone (even me

) can be "sophisticated" in RETROSPECT. Now that we''ve seen the whole thing play out. Its much more difficult in the moment so don''t take it too hard. When people overshare it might be out of nervousness or something more sinister. Hard to tell.

 

[Gypsy]

T-Gal... maybe force the issue isn''t the right term. When she got up, having checked all her boxes and made a move to leave I just said, "Number 4 if you have the time, I have a few questions for you as well." That''s what I do at any interview where I have questions and the person doesn''t ask me if I have any questions. I''m there to interview them as well. It''s not one way. I think that''s perfectly fine to say. While its good to be likeable and desirable, I think it''s also important to let them know that I am looking for certain things, and that my opinion of them and their company matters as much as their opinion of me.

The bluetooth things is funny.

Number 4 does sound like a challenge. But she honestly could be one of those people who just is abrasive and has no social skills. She could be a good person under that veneer of rudeness. I know a few people like that. Just like number 3 could be a complete b*tch under all the friendliness. It''s hard to tell.

Storm... well, it might be a case of teh devil you don''t know, versus the devil you do.

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:12:18 PM
Author: decodelighted

BUT -- I kinda think you got played. Would not be surprised to find out that #3 is the *real* beeatch around the office. Way more clever than #4 -- after all, she set you up ... (passive aggressive gossip, no?) ...

That''s really smart Deco. I bet you''re right. I would be seriously p''ed off if one of my colleagues mentioned my review to a job candidate. TOTALLY inappropriate.

 

[iheartscience]

Not to sound like a total hippie, but I always think that everything happens for a reason. If the job is meant to be, it will be.

Wow, do I have to go listen to Widespread Panic now for saying that?

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:36:14 PM
Author: decodelighted


And Gyp -- anyone (even me

) can be ''sophisticated'' in RETROSPECT. Now that we''ve seen the whole thing play out. Its much more difficult in the moment so don''t take it too hard. When people overshare it might be out of nervousness or something more sinister. Hard to tell.

This is true. Thanks Deco.

As for difficult people the workplace. I think that as long as my boss is good, I''m okay. I wouldn''t be leaving my current position if it wasn''t for Demon Boss. But the woman takes hostile work environment as a compliment and is a complete tyrant. Everyone at work tells me they could never work for her... and 3/4 of them don''t want to work WITH her either. They come to me instead.

 

[ahappygirl]

Gypsy,

I''ve been following your job situation via lurk and just wanted to throw my 2 cents in... I think you did just fine in this interview. I''m not sure you actually asked anything blatantly inappropriate given the opening you had and the question was about fairness, though the timing of her recent review wasn''t great - you were set up here, though. And you clarified your meaning and called to apologize promptly, both things which speak volumes to your character!! I agree with neatfreak the thing about giving up your license (harping on the issue after you answered the question) makes me think it was more about her insecurities or need to feel superior to you, than the purported reason. I don''t think all the interviewers were respectful to you, and they need to remember you are interviewing them as much as the other way around. If they offer this and you decide you want it, be very upfront and clear about any reservations/ why beforehand and see how they respond. The last thing you want is to go from the frying pain (current psycho boss from hell) into the fire (unknown parallel hell). I''m so sorry this just seems to be an endless process with your current boss as well.

Kudos, I think you are doing great. Hang in there!!

 

[Kaleigh]

I see both sides, just hope that if you do get it, you''ll be happy there. I don''t like the sound of #4, but then again, I think what #3 shared was wrong too. So I dunno. Helpful aren''t I,

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 5/19/2008 6:40:29 PM
Author: Gypsy
While its good to be likeable and desirable, I think it''s also important to let them know that I am looking for certain things, and that my opinion of them and their company matters as much as their opinion of me.

I agree with you to a point ... but c''mon -- you said that girl was a) the most junior person you met b) nervous about her OWN review c) obviously insecure (with pompous manner & trying to compete with you on drafting skills) ... is THAT the person you need to play hard to get/chest-thump/take back your power in front of? She''s not the decision maker. It wasn''t going well. That''s why it *seems* more anger/ego-driven than strategic cool confidence. ACK == I do not mean to nitpick. Analyzing situations helps me a lot -- seriously mean to help - not 2nd guess you!

 

[FrekeChild]