shape
carat
color
clarity

I'll boycott Germany with my tourist dollars

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
34,003
SNIP: 34% of men from that age bracket admitted to being violent towards their female partner in the past, to “instil respect in them.”

"to instill respect"???
Really? ... WTF!?!
... and this is about masculinity? :doh:
No; being masculine does not come from violence in an attempt to make women inferior.


A third of young men in Germany think violence against women is ‘acceptable,’ study finds​

By Sophie Tanno, CNN
Updated 1:20 PM EDT, Sun June 11, 2023

CNN — A third of young men in Germany find it acceptable to use violence against women, according to a new survey which has caused outrage among gender equality campaigners.

The survey was commissioned by children’s charity Plan International Germany. Its findings were published in regional newspaper Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung.

A group of 1,000 men and 1,000 women aged 18-35 from across Germany were asked to give their views on masculinity for the study, which was carried out online.

34% of men from that age bracket admitted to being violent towards their female partner in the past, to “instil respect in them.” 33% said they thought it was acceptable if their “hand slipped” occasionally during an argument with their partner.

Exploring attitudes to victim-blaming and double standards, the survey found that 50% of men said they would not want a relationship with a woman who had had many sexual partners, while 20% of the women interviewed agreed with this statement.



The survey also found that expectations within a relationship differed greatly between men and women.

Just over half of men – 52% – wanted a relationship in the form of a “breadwinner-housewife model,” where they earned most of the money for the household and childcare and household tasks were primarily the woman’s role.

Over two-thirds of the women interviewed disagreed, wanting equal partnerships and shared decision-making.

Just under half of respondents – 48% – expressed a dislike for public displays of homosexuality, saying they felt “disturbed” by it.

A German group called the Federal Organization for Equality wrote on Twitter that the findings were “shocking.”

“According to a survey by Plan International Germany, every third young man finds violence against women ‘acceptable’. This urgently needs to change!”

Karsten Kassner from Federal Forum Men, a group which advocates for gender equality, also called for change as he said “It’s problematic that a third of the surveyed men trivialize physical violence against women.”

According to data from Germany’s Federal Criminal Police (BKA), 115,000 women in Germany were victims of partner violence in 2021.

Germany also has one of the highest rates of femicide in Europe - a problem which was exacerbated during the coronavirus pandemic, according to data from the BKA.

 
Last edited:
I wonder if it's any different in the US, tbh; they get a lot of my travel dollars.

And the men were 18 - 35 -- so not all the "men" were actually men. I wonder if it skewed toward the younger or older end of that spectrum?

It also depends on who was sampled. How did this "children's charity" generate the list of young people? And why did they ask this set of questions? And how did they reach the respondents? Was it Xeroxed tear-sheets posted in public housing? Clipboard-wielders at truck stops? Or at EV charging stations? Very different subpopulations will be (over)sampled.

And, as you know, there are powerful psychological factors at play in the way the questions are asked, and even the order of the questions (see "Thinking Fast and Slow"). And even asking, "Are you willing to take a quiz about your masculinity?" vs. "Are you interested in knowing if you exhibit signs of so-called toxic masculinity?"
 
I wonder if it's any different in the US, tbh; they get a lot of my travel dollars.

And the men were 18 - 35 -- so not all the "men" were actually men. I wonder if it skewed toward the younger or older end of that spectrum?

It also depends on who was sampled. How did this "children's charity" generate the list of young people? And why did they ask this set of questions? And how did they reach the respondents? Was it Xeroxed tear-sheets posted in public housing? Clipboard-wielders at truck stops? Or at EV charging stations? Very different subpopulations will be (over)sampled.

And, as you know, there are powerful psychological factors at play in the way the questions are asked, and even the order of the questions (see "Thinking Fast and Slow"). And even asking, "Are you willing to take a quiz about your masculinity?" vs. "Are you interested in knowing if you exhibit signs of so-called toxic masculinity?"

Agreed. Not saying that the study is wrong, just that there isn't enough information about how the study was done to really say how accurately it describes the overall population.
 
"Do not trust any statistics you did not fake yourself." Winston Churchill

I guess there would be tons of reasons to also boycott the US... or that said a lot of other countries...
 
My paternal grandfather was 1st generation from Germany. He beat my grandmother until the sons got old enough to tell him they would kill him if he did it again. My father never laid a hand on my mother.
 
People get respect by earning it. Violence only begets fear, resentment, hatred and possible violence in return.
 
I wonder if it's any different in the US, tbh; they get a lot of my travel dollars.

And the men were 18 - 35 -- so not all the "men" were actually men. I wonder if it skewed toward the younger or older end of that spectrum?

It also depends on who was sampled. How did this "children's charity" generate the list of young people? And why did they ask this set of questions? And how did they reach the respondents? Was it Xeroxed tear-sheets posted in public housing? Clipboard-wielders at truck stops? Or at EV charging stations? Very different subpopulations will be (over)sampled.

And, as you know, there are powerful psychological factors at play in the way the questions are asked, and even the order of the questions (see "Thinking Fast and Slow"). And even asking, "Are you willing to take a quiz about your masculinity?" vs. "Are you interested in knowing if you exhibit signs of so-called toxic masculinity?"

I've taken women's studies classes years ago in college, been in the workforce for ages, been married to men twice, etc. I have never ever NOT known men to be "safe." Period. I think most women around the world would agree. We do not need studies nor men to tell us that our fears are valid.
 
I have never ever NOT known men to be "safe." Period

Wait you're saying men are always safe? Or men are always unsafe? Struggling with the double-negative... Safe, themselves, or safe to be around?
 
Monarch, men vary.
 
Monarch, men vary.

Of course they do. I still haven’t known a single man who was without some degree of misogyny at the least, and almost every job I’ve ever had (quite a few) I’ve been harassed. I also do not know a single woman who doesn’t have a story or several of being sexually harassed or assaulted, usually both. How can it be, then, that there are some men who never harass nor assault but every woman has a story? Seems illogical.
 
How can it be, then, that there are some men who never harass nor assault but every woman has a story? Seems illogical

Here's one possibility: some men harass more than one woman! Crazy, I know. I bet some men have a pattern of this.

Also: women encounter thousands of men in a year, let alone their entire lives. I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority of men they encounter walk straight past them without saying a word.

There are cultural differences, of course; I don't know what country you live in.

Lot of cars get stolen -- we all know several people with a story. So do all of us pretty much steal a car now and then? Or is there a hard-core pack of thieves that steal cars all day long?

I'm sorry that you've had such awful experiences. I have never heard this perspective from any of the women in my life -- most of whom have been super-candid about all my other failings so I know they are not pulling their punches.
 
^ I don't understand what you are saying. You made the point that because all women have been harassed that all men must be harassers. That symmetry sounds appealing but, logically, it does not make sense -- in part because some men harass many, many women. Not every woman has their one true harasser that they are uniquely paired with.

Maybe all men are harassers, but that's not the way to demonstrate it.

I am not attacking you -- just your argument. I'm sorry you've been hurt in the past. Over and out.
 
Well I’m a female almost 53yo and never been mistreated / assaulted / harassed. Maybe I’m an outlier but I’ve also been lucky to have a Father, Father in law and husband whom have always been very caring and forthright in their treatment of any women. We are also raising two teenage boys to be the same type of men as these three role models. I’m not saying that they are perfect but I can tell you that no female I know have been either.

That’s not minimising your experiences Monarch but I agree with posters above stating that you cannot tar every male as having ill intent just as you cannot say every female has had that same experience as you.
 
Well I’m a female almost 53yo and never been mistreated / assaulted / harassed. Maybe I’m an outlier but I’ve also been lucky to have a Father, Father in law and husband whom have always been very caring and forthright in their treatment of any women. We are also raising two teenage boys to be the same type of men as these three role models. I’m not saying that they are perfect but I can tell you that no female I know have been either.

That’s not minimising your experiences Monarch but I agree with posters above stating that you cannot tar every male as having ill intent just as you cannot say every female has had that same experience as you.

I have amazing relationships with men in my life, particularly my father, best friends, and many others.

It absolutely IS minimizing.

OP has often posted shit-stirring crap like this in the past and then played victim. Nothing new here.

Why bother posting this content and then getting upset when there’s commentary they don’t like? Smells like bullshit to me.

Heard a good joke tonight: Do you know how most mansplainers die? They fall in a well actually. (Told to me by a man friend I’ve had for 29 years who respects women and works every day at being a better advocate and supporter of women.)
 
I will agree with @monarch64 in that I too, do not know any woman who has not experienced sexual harassment at least once (but more often for many) but I do know good men who are not misogynistic in any way. My dad and dh come to mind. Which actually is remarkable due to the era my dad grew up in but he is the best man I know and not a misogynist bone in his body. Same for my dh.


But I get what Monnie is saying. The overwhelming majority of women (maybe all) have been subjected to some form of abuse at the hands of a man. It is, in my experience, accurate. BUT, that is certainly not to say all men behave this way. That is not true. Just seems like that sometimes And you know what they say. Unless you are part of the discriminated group you may not be aware the way we are.
 
Folks, I've had to delete some posts in this thread due to personal attacks.

Please remember that when people say "all", it is generally meant as a comment about a society or group as a whole, a system, etc. It is not meant to be literal, and arguing that someone means it literally is often obscuring the point and makes threads devolve into personal arguments. We know you're all better than that.
 
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Top