In search of a Fancy Yellow Diamond! Any Advice?

[KateV.V.]

I am about to get engaged, but after weeks of searching we still haven't found the right ring. I like the colorless diamonds, but have found that I am in LOVE with Fancy Yellow colored diamonds. I've been educating myself and talking with several jewelers but still haven't found what I'm looking for.

I have yet to meet a jeweler who really knows what I'm looking for, so its been a frustrating process. I am willing to invest a lot of money into this ring and I want it to last a lifetime. The large jewelers who seem to specialize in colored stone just charge too much (i.e. Graff).

Any advice on who to talk to (I live in Chicago) or references to refer to? I want to find a stone soon!

We're willing to put about $28,000 into the center stone. I am looking for Fancy Yellow or Fancy Intense Yellow radiant-cut stone. We'd like something around 3 cts.
PLEASE HELP!

(And in case you're curious, I'm planning to surround the yellow stone by two colorless, radiant cut Trapezoids.)

 

[MINE!!]

Welcome...

I would say that you have got yourself a yummy little budget there...

Well, I too and in love with those yummy yellow diamonds. Oneplace you may want to investigate is www.diamondsbylauren.com They have very nice colored stones and it would be worth it to talk to them. They seem well liked and highly recommended around here.

There are other places that sell yellow diamond however, I am sure that someone will probably pop in and let you know.

Also, you may want to post this in Rocky Talky thread.

Good luck and keep us in the loop!! Sounds exciting!

BTW.. looking for something like this? It is a DBL

 

[MINE!!]

I believe these are within your Price range too...

 

[MINE!!]

I am blinded by the ssun!!!!!!

 

[MINE!!]

This is from the website

http://www.scheinerdiamonds.com/fncy1.html

 

[movie zombie]

and if you care to increase your budget:

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/product.php?DesignerID=5&ItemTypeID=1

i believe there are other yellows at that website for substantially less $$$$.......

peace, movie zombie

 

[MINE!!]

Be sure to check out the Ice Store as well...

 

[widget]

Ditto MINE!''s recommendation of DBL. They specialize in colored diamonds, their prices are fair, and they''re located in the Diamond District in NYC and could probably find whatever you''re looking for.

It might be worth giving David a call just to pick his brain and learn what''s out there. He''s a great guy..

I''ve also heard of www.icestore.com for colored diamonds, but don''t know anything about them. You could do a search and maybe learn something..

Good Luck..and we''d LOVE to hear all about your search!

widget

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 10/10/2005 2:53:01 PM
Author:KateV.V.

Any advice on who to talk to (I live in Chicago) or references to refer to? I want to find a stone soon!

I''ve located three Chicago suppliers who claim to specialize in fine quality natural colored diamonds. PM me if you want contact info.

Richard M.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 10/10/2005 2:53:01 PM
Author:KateV.V.



I have yet to meet a jeweler who really knows what I'm looking for, so its been a frustrating process.

We don't know either

Radiants are the most common shape for fancy yellows. Perhaps cushion (which is often a radiant with rounded corners) comes next. You should really have little trouble finding what you are after. If you liked rounds of emerald cuts, than it would be trouble...

These yellows are a mistery to me: I could never figure out what I like - from S-T to fancy deep they are all nice to me. The colors deeper than Y-Z look unmistakably yellow to most folk I know. Between a lighter than 'fancy yellow' over 3 cts and a strykingly yellow piece somewhat under 2cts it would take me a pair of dice to decide or enough cash for both!

And it must be easier to sort out extreme choices, one would think... Thinking of 28k, that could probably be 'fancy yellow' proper (i.e. called so in GIA terms) around 3 cts or stronger color around 2.5. Fancy Intense SI1 would be great, if you can find one. Sometimes these come with color reports nly, so you have to take the seller's opinion on clarity - which may not be all that bad as long as you get to see the stone unmounted.

Just a 0.2 worth thought.

On this forum, 'MaryAlaina' got a 3 carat light yellow recently. You may want to look the story up.

 

[KateV.V.]

Thank you all for your posts!

MINE!, how much do you all think I can trust buying a stone online, sight unseen? I am concerned that among just Fancy Intense Yellow stones, I have seen a wide variety of color varience. A stone I almost bought had no flurecense but was beautiful in certain light and dingy, off-white in other light.

I will wear this ring every day, I want it to be great in every light! Also, Vivid Yellows are not only out of my price range, but are also almost too amber colored.

Any advice for how I can buy something online but make sure its exactly what I want?! Its quite an investment, so I''d even be willing to travel to see the stone if I really think it might be great.

 

[belle]

kate,
no need to travel, most vendors will ship the stone to you or an appraiser for your inspection. if you decide not to purchase, you are only responsible for the shipping.

 

[movie zombie]

since you''re not locked into vivid and/or intense yellows, also try checking out the C1-C4 champagne diamonds. they can be lovely.

i''d love to see an S-Z diamond!!! most places act like one has to be out of their mind to request such a gem.

peace, movie zombie

 

[valeria101]

Date: 10/10/2005 5:08:05 PM
Author: KateV.V.

A stone I almost bought had no flurecense but was beautiful in certain light and dingy, off-white in other light.

Yeah... it happens to have fancy yellow recut and re-graded fancy intense... becase unlike white diamonds, the yellows are graded face up for color and cut has allot to say in the color grade. So when it was the cut hat makes all the difference for otherwise borderline intense material, lighting makes some stryking difference. Light always counts allot and makes these stones change appearance, but some diamonds would hold color better in a range of lighting conditions.

That is bound to be a small part of the story, because I surely don't know it all myself. Another part might be that cut is important anyway.

Looks familiar?


Speaking of fluorescence, try this link for fun. Yellow fluorescence makes some surprising stones! You may not find one in nature to see, but you never know. I've seen a smaller one once and it left a strong impression - instead of getting washed out in strong daylight, the collor only got stronger with a bright glow about it. I have not seen this one listed, but it gives good reason to tell the story

 

[bettyann]

Have you looked at the New Graff store? You can see some beautiful yellows, even if you would not want to pay their prices.

 

[KateV.V.]

The rings I tried on at Graff were simply perfect. However they were asking $125K for a 3.5 ct Fancy Intense yellow diamond with colorless side stones... but after some talking said they''d go down to $80K. That''s still nearly three times my budget, so that''s a no-go. I have been hoping to work with a jeweler to basically mimic what I saw at Graff.
Thanks for the tip though. Their jewelry is absolutely gorgeous!

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 10/10/2005 5:08:05 PM
Author: KateV.V.
Thank you all for your posts!


MINE!, how much do you all think I can trust buying a stone online, sight unseen? I am concerned that among just Fancy Intense Yellow stones, I have seen a wide variety of color varience. A stone I almost bought had no flurecense but was beautiful in certain light and dingy, off-white in other light.


I will wear this ring every day, I want it to be great in every light! Also, Vivid Yellows are not only out of my price range, but are also almost too amber colored.


Any advice for how I can buy something online but make sure its exactly what I want?! Its quite an investment, so I''d even be willing to travel to see the stone if I really think it might be great.

Most people on this site have purchased their stones online (as well as their settings). I would seriously take into account the recommendations of others on the site as to who has good customer service and work. When i first started looking for a stone for my ring, I wanted something of color. I emailed David @ Diamonds By Lauren and he was awesome. Most companies that people deal with on Pscope are #1 in their customer service. After all, if you are not happy, then they know you will tell others. But if you are happy, they know you will tell others.

I did not buy a stone from Daimonds By lauren, but I SERIOUSLY considered doing so. But as Widget mentioned, there are people who have made purchases with them and are satisfied. My best suggestion to you would be to contact them and talk to the about what you are looking for. Many of these places are going to find what you are looking for, or at least come pretty close. They are experts and know how to find things that fit into your descriptions.

As for buying online. Before I started snooping around Pscope... I was a little nervous about purchasing online. HOWEVER, I would have no hesitation NOW about purchasing anything from the known companies. I bought my stone online and I am estatic about the wonderful customer serivce and craftmenship!!! I would call these companies, talk to them about what you want and see what they can do for you. So my answer would be.. ''No'' I would not have a problem buying online. Keep in mind, many of these companies have return policies.. THEY WANT you to be happy!!! So they are going to work with you. I think after talking to some of them.. you are going to feel more comfortable. I did... Good Luck!!

BTW... You are going to get a better deal online 9 X out of ten. They do not have to pay the extra overhead and advertising like your Bricks and Mortar stores.. that is why they can charge what they do... for a lesser amount and a higher quality or stone that you find in your local strip mall.

 

[maxspinel]

I too fell in love with the fancy yellows and I got mine a few years back. During my quest, I noted the following:

1) Within each of the GIA fancy grades, there appears to be different levels. I found there are fancy lights that are almost like the fancy yellows and some fancy yellows are close to being intense. It is best to compare more stones and also check the stones loose, not mounted. With some clever mounting, the color of the stone can look more intense than they actually are.

2) Most of the fancy yellows are radiant cut and they are cut deep to intensify the color. They can look smaller than the white counterpart. It is important to check out the depth % in the certificate and find one that has the right proportion.

3) Clarity might not be as important compared to size and color. I''ve seen some SI2s that are absolutely gorgeous. With $28k, I think you can get a 3.0 ct intense with SI quality. I saw one in Icestore that falls within that range a while ago.

4) It is important to buy diamonds with a valid GIA certificate. You need to check and make sure the certificate matches the stone. Ask the dealer to weigh them, measure the dimensions and you can use the loope to check out the identifying flaws or better yet, send it to an appraiser. I''ve encountered a couple of occasions that the dealers try to switch the stones

. Some fancies don''t have full GIA report; they are certified for color only, but not the clarity. In that case, one needs to be extra careful because w/o the idenfying flaws, the stones can be more easily switched.

5) I don''t have problems buying diamonds via the internet especially with reputable stores. The price is wholesale and they have a large selection. Diamond Grading is standard and a good return policy also helps to minimize any risk. I actually have worse experience dealing with some retailers in the diamond district; they are expensive, give me bad info/advice, misrepresent or switch the stone, selling fakes/moissanites.

 

[movie zombie]

wow, maxspinel, that was very concise and easy to understand information for a consumer. thank you!

peace, movie zombie

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 10/11/2005 4:13:18 PM
Author: movie zombie
wow, maxspinel, that was very concise and easy to understand information for a consumer. thank you!

peace, movie zombie

Hi movie zombie,
These are lessons that I learned the hard way as a consumer. I have a "diamond" necklace that is half moissanite, half diamond. My fancy yellow diamond was cut on the deep side. I also bought a supposedly "J" color diamond mounted on a 14 kt gold setting and it turned out to be a "M".

I am just trying to recover and learn from previous mistakes. The last straw was when a dealer friend that I''ve known and trusted for 7 years trying to sell me a 5 ct SI1 diamond with a GIA certificate. I finally learned how to use the loupe and discovered that the idenitfying flaws in the certificate did not match the stone. I requested him then to check the dimension and they were off. I was very upset and at the same time, greatly diasppointed. I realize now as a consumer, you are pretty much on your own and can''t trust anyone blindly. Education and knowledge are our best defenses

 

[Gemklctr]

Great advice Max, especially about the wide variation in color intensity in "fancy" yellows. It is by far the largest category. See this site: http://www.diamondse.info/fancy-yellow-diamond-grading.asp I don''t think the typically greater depth in a fancy is necessarily a problem if you know what you''re getting because most are cut for the color, not spread, but you do need to have informed expectations. And, the ability to use a loupe is critical if buying a color-only certed stone.

Sorry to hear about your fiasco with a trusted vendor. Most of my major purchases get checked by a friend/dealer I have known for 20 years, but you are right it pays to become an educated consumer yourself. For example, I have found that some vendors may not accurately represent the color of at least their accent diamonds at gem shows, at least IMO, and it may not pay to get a formal appraisal of such purchases.

 

[Sagebrush]

Kate,

There are four grades of fancy yellow diamonds, fancy light, fancy, fancy intense and fancy vivid. Keeping in mind that there are 24 color grades in colorless diamonds (D-Z) you should not be surprised to find a tonal range within each grade. Thus, there are high intense diamonds and low intense diamonds with the same GIA grade. If you have access to my book, Secrets Of The Gem Trade, you will see illustrations of the 4 grades on page 63.

We are currently resetting a 7.73 carat oval fancy yellow. With proper attention to the making of the setting this stone will face up like a fancy intense. This is not fraud, this is part of the jeweler's art. The client wants her stone to look as good as it can.

You mentioned your budget but I don't believe you mentioned what size stone you are seeking.

 

[elmo]

Good points from everyone. My experience was that because of the variation within a color grade that folks mention, it is difficult to shop online for fancy color stones. Also as folks mention the online vendors tend to work on lower margins. The problem this leads to is that by the nature of their business model, online folks tend to want to make a sale and move on, since that''s the only way the can make a living on the lower margins. This works just fine with round ideals, but to get that occasional stone that has the strong color that also has a pleasing shape and isn''t deep/small for the weight, you often have to reject a few. At that point the online vendor either can step up and find you something really nice, or can decide that you''re a "connoisseur" (like RW''s says

) and too much trouble.

Our best experience shopping for a FIY was with a local jeweler - we paid a little more but got a great stone after some searching. I also developed a deep respect for someone who works extra hard to make his customers happy more than just working a low margin business model.

 

[movie zombie]

ah, the school of hard knocks reinforces ''let the buyer be ware''!

i want to know at least enough to know that i''m not getting cheated by misrepresentation and that the ''eye'' of the professioal i''m working with is a good eye!

again, great info in this thread.

peace, movie zombie

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Everybody!!!
Thanks to those that mentioned us, and of course to Mine!! for posting some ohotos of our rings.

A few points:
1) EVERY yellow diamond- be it U-V in color, or Fancy Vivid Yellow- will appear a different color mounted than it does loose.
In cases of jewelers who know what they are doing, yellows look even more yellow- in other cases, I''ve seen settings that totally "dulled" the natural shade of the diamond. But the fact remains- loose diamonds appear differently once they are set.

2) yes, there are many Radiant fancy colors- but it''s not true that they are all cut deeper than colorless. I''ve had gorgeous Vivid Yellow Radaint cut diamonds of 60% depth......
As far as proper proporions- there are so many variations that work when the cutter is going for yellow- I''d say even more variations possible than colorless.
Just as it does not work trying to buy a colorless diamond "by the numbers" nor wil it be productive trying to include, or exclude possibilities based solely on numbers.

3) Ain''t nobody buying nicely cut, eye clean 3 carat Fancy Intense Yellows for $28k today- maybe you''ve seen prices like that in the past, but there''s been tremendous ( upward) movement in the price if Fancy Colored Diamonds over the past 18 months.

4) it''s true- buy a diamond that has a GIA report- and make sure the diamond you get is the dimaond on the report. BUT- expecting folks who are not in the business to be able to draw these distinctions is shortsighted.
Yes, a novice could be easily taught to measure a diamond to verify that it''s the same stone on the GIA report- but if a shopper is trusting a seller, who happens to be dishonest, they could easily figure out a way to trick a novice.....
Bottom line here is that picking a seller is something far more intuitive for most buyers- as opposed to trying to learn the diamond business before they buy. That does NOT mean to excercise "blind trust"- but most of us can tell if someone''s peeing on our leg and telling us it''s raining.
Maxspinel- that really sucks- what happened to you......

There are two types of reports GIA issues for colored diamonds.
One is the standard "full report"- the other is referred to as "Color Origin"
A color only report lists:
*- Report Numner
* Date
*Description of cutting style and measurements
* color ( also confirms that it''s a natural diamond natural color)
* weight
* comments - if any

What''s NOT on the "color origin"
* Clarity
* Flourescence
Two things which can greatly affect the value.
SO- color origin reports do not neccesarly indicate a specific problem, but when I see one, I check clarity and fluorescence right ff the bat.


Someone referred folks to a site which had some "unusal" info- for example, it listed a color grade of "Fancy dark Yellow" Anybody ever hear of that one????


Richard,
Actually, there are 17 color grades if you start at D and include Y-Z.
Below N color, GIA uses "split grade" Therefore colors O-P, Q-R, S-T, U-V, W-X, Y-Z color grades are actually "Ranges".

We''ve found that most people will see yellowish stones of U-V and darker, as "fancy Color" diamonds.
There is a much wider range of color in the fancy color grades, as compared to say, the difference between D and E. Yet, in general, the difference between a lighter stone of Fancy Yellow, and a darker one, is not apparent to most people without a comparison stone. Of course there are always the "hyper sensative" people who can spot the tiniest difference in shade

Elmo''s difficulty finding a good fancy intense stone is common- most jewelers don''t have much stock, or knowledge in these color grades.

 

[The Joker]

Date: 10/12/2005 10:47:00 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Kate,

There are four grades of fancy yellow diamonds, fancy light, fancy, fancy intense and fancy vivid. Keeping in mind that there are 24 color grades in colorless diamonds (D-Z) you should not be surprised to find a tonal range within each grade. Thus, there are high intense diamonds and low intense diamonds with the same GIA grade. If you have access to my book, Secrets Of The Gem Trade, you will see illustrations of the 4 grades on page 63.

We are currently resetting a 7.73 carat oval fancy yellow. With proper attention to the making of the setting this stone will face up like a fancy intense. This is not fraud, this is part of the jeweler''s art. The client wants her stone to look as good as it can.

You mentioned your budget but I don''t believe you mentioned what size stone you are seeking.

Actually Kate and Richard, Gia used a nine-tiered system for grading colored diamonds,

From the Gia web-site.
GIA’s nine-tiered rating system for color ranges from Faint to Fancy Vivid. Among the most famous colored diamonds are the Hope, a 45.52-carat blue diamond at the Smithsonian Institution – graded as Fancy Deep gray blue on the GIA scale.

The nine-tiered system is:
1. Faint
2. Very Light
3. Light
4. Fancy Light
5. Fancy
6. Fancy Intense
7. Fancy Vivid
8. Fancy Dark
9. Fancy Deep
If any one wants to check this infomation out, here''s the link.
http://www.gia.edu/microsite/15773/grading_fancycolored_diamonds.cfm

Joker....

 

[Sagebrush]

Thank you David and Joker,

I was unaware of the split range system. Just never purchased anything that far down the scale and don''t recall any mention of this in the G.G. material. In my own feable defense let me say that I was talking about fancy color diamonds, so Joker, the first three grades don''t count as they are not considered by GIA as "fancy". I did forget fancy deep and fancy dark, mea culpa.

My first experience with setting a fancy light was interesting. I reasoned that since we had always used yellow gold to mask the yellow in M+ color diamonds, platinum was the way to go. Big surprise, the platinum seemed to bleach out the stone. Ended up resetting in 18k yellow.

David, a question for you. As we know the secondary hues in fancy yellows are green and orange. Is one or the other preferred in the marketplace? In short, all things being equal will a fancy (greenish) yellow fetch a higher or lower price? Is there a preference for pure yellow?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Great info Joker!
Of course, me being me, I will boldly disagree with GIA''s opinion that Fancy Colored Diamonds start below Z- many W-X, and Y-Z colored diamonds are fancy colors in fact- that is to say, if you looked at a strong W-X colored diamond, you''d say- "that''a a yellow diamond"- or "can I have a cup of coffee," if you were thirsty.
But you would not say "is that on off color diamond"

Plus, the lines are also blurred due to the way different colors exhibit themselves in diamonds- and therefore, the manner in which GIA grades them.
Take a "Faint Blue" diamond....well, don''t take it if it does not belong to you because today a one carat diamond graded "faint Blue" by GIA could easily be worth $25K....
If a diamond exhibits yellw, as opposed to blue, it will not be classified "faint Yellow" rather it will be a U-V, for example.

I know cutters that use GIA "color Origin" reports over a full report, simply due to a small difference in wording.
If you have a diamond who''s color is deemed to be U-V thru Y-Z, the color is described by GIA as either:
"Y-Z Range Light Yellow, Natural Color" on the "Color Origin" Report
or
"Y-Z Color Range"- this in cases of a full report.
GIA uses a slightly different format on the "Colored Diamond Grading Report"
Diamonds up to Y-Z are given a "Diamond Grading Report"

SO- Yellow is taken on it''s own attributes.
Pink is more like blue- even a faint pink gets the distinction of being a "Fancy Color"

How about brown? Another story entirely.
A stone can be an F color and have a tinge of brown.
GIA may indicate the prescence of light brown on stones as light as K ...maybe even lighter .


makes life in the "Fancy Color Lane" pretty pretty interesting.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 10/12/2005 4:16:14 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Thank you David and Joker,

I was unaware of the split range system. Just never purchased anything that far down the scale and don't recall any mention of this in the G.G. material. In my own feable defense let me say that I was talking about fancy color diamonds, so Joker, the first three grades don't count as they are not considered by GIA as 'fancy'. I did forget fancy deep and fancy dark, mea culpa.

My first experience with setting a fancy light was interesting. I reasoned that since we had always used yellow gold to mask the yellow in M+ color diamonds, platinum was the way to go. Big surprise, the platinum seemed to bleach out the stone. Ended up resetting in 18k yellow.

David, a question for you. As we know the secondary hues in fancy yellows are green and orange. Is one or the other preferred in the marketplace? In short, all things being equal will a fancy (greenish) yellow fetch a higher or lower price? Is there a preference for pure yellow?

Thank you Richard!
Regarding orange or green as un-named secondary hues..... IN terms of price, if it's visibly orangy, this can sometimes look brownish- Even if GIA gave such a stone a pure "Fancy Yellow" grade ( I've seen it happen) if it looks brownish, it would certainly bring down the price.

If GIA does actually Call a diamond Fancy Greenish Yellow, or Fancy Orangey Yellow, then fasten your seat belt.
In some cases the prescence of Orange or green can make the stone worth 5 times what another dimaond with unattractive yellow or green might be worth.
In green dimaonds, fluorescence plays a big role.

I would say the more exotic Greenish and Orangey diamonds are more for collector types, while the most yellow diamond buyers prefer the yellowest yellow.

 

[KateV.V.]

Date: 10/12/2005 10:47:00 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise

You mentioned your budget but I don't believe you mentioned what size stone you are seeking.

We are looking for a stone 3.0 + stone.

Today I just looked at a 3.30 cts fancy light yellow stone priced at around 22K. I didn't write down all the specs to share. It was a beautiful stone and with the right gold setting the color would be even more bright (I saw it set in platinum). I am still searching though.

After all the discussion on this forum, it seems that the bottom line here is that yellow stones are just a bit more variable than colorless stones. In the end, I just feel that colorless washes out my light complexion so I would prefer to have some color. It need not cost and arm and a leg, but I want to be sure the stone is unique and beautiful for a lifetime!

Richard, out of curiosity, roughly how much are you charging your client for the large stone you're setting?
Also, any advice on how I can enhance the yellow (with the yellow gold) while only using minimal yellow gold? I have seen a light yellow diamond in a yellow gold basket and it looked VERY yellow. I don't want that much yellow gold, but any ideas of how to modify the basket to really enhance the diamond?

THANK YOU! -- Kate