International Shipping Vs. Diamondland Antwerp

[swissdiamond]

Hello everyone, I am new to this but have been avidly reading through past posts and educating myself on the 4 C''s. I think I am getting the hang of it and getting to talk the talk... Thank you so much for those who contribute to the forum, it is such a great source of info.

I am in Switzerland where prices are ridiculous! A 0.19carat solitaire ring was 1680CHF! So I turned towards the internet and much to my delight found many online stores.
My first question on which I would appreciate your advice is:

1. How safe really is shipping overseas with companies such as uniondiamond or mondera from the US? They seem to have good solid experience shipping abroad but it IS a diamond and my fiance and I are worriers! Thus far it seems they have the best deals.

2. As I am in Europe, what do people think of the Antwerp route? Is it any cheaper? The pros would be that at least we would be able to see them in person and touch them before buying and cut out the anticipation and worrying part of receiving the diamond in the mail! But I am worried about the settings. Would they have a wide selection of settings at diamondland? What kind of prices are we talking for the settings?

3. Related to Q 2: I do not understand how diamondland works in Antwerp. Do you reserve a diamond after going through their database and emailing the reps. and then go and pick out a setting? Do they have many different settings? I would like to avoid buying a loose diamond in Antwerp and having to find a different jeweller to set it. Would prefer it all to be done by one place/company in case something happens while setting it.
(I read on a post here that a person did just that and the guy setting it cracked the diamond!!!! and would not take responsibility for it).

I saw different posts of people going to Antwerp so would appreciate your help and would appreciate the advice of experts.

Thank you so much!
Momo.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

too much too much

shipping can be insured to you easily
But you will pay some local taxes

 

[pinkrose]

Date: 10/31/2006 2:21:00 PM
Author:swissdiamond

I am in Switzerland where prices are ridiculous! A 0.19carat solitaire ring was 1680CHF! So I turned towards the internet and much to my delight found many online stores.

How much would that be in US dollars would you know? Just curious. I didn''t know diamonds were more expensive in Europe.

 

[Phoenix]

I am one of those that went to antwerp to look at diamonds, but ended up not buying one there and kind of regretted it because their prices (the dealers) are quite competitive and it was a very beautiful diamond (scored under 2 on the HCA) and it was beautiful to look at. The reasons for not buying are for another thread altogether. Anyway, I bought one locally in the region where I live.

A few things to consider: i) Most of the shops there sell not so well cut stones, some are just very poorly cut. ii) Some shops have prices that are not so competitive (but still cheaper in the shops in say the UK and Switzerland). iii) You have to know which dealers (dealers, not shops) to go to and you'll have had to have done tons of research and looked at hundreds of diamonds before you know the "vital stats" and before your eyes can tell which stones are more well cut than others (this last bit is important as even dealers would still try to sell you a dud if you're inexperienced. There are some very good dealers that I know in Antwerp but cannot mention their names due to PS's rules). iv) Most, if not all of the of these people (shops or dealers) have never heard of HCA or use an idealscope (I guess they don;t need to , since they're in the trade and have decades of experience but they wouldn't be able to help you with an idealscope image) and v) Most of these dealers would not entertain the public unless there's a recommendation from another dealer or some other source.

(Garry, I've asked this question before in another thread (not one that I personally posted) but there was no response from you. What are your reasons for not liking Antwerp's dealers or dealers in general? I'd love to buy from the internet but for my stone size, 3+ carat and colour (E or F) and clarity (VS) , I am too nervous to have that shipped all the way from America and maybe having to ship it back. Sure, there is insurance but imagine the hassle if the stone got lost or somehow got switched along the way or the seller claims - for whatever reasons - that the stone they receive back is not the same they send to you? And moreover, a lot of online dealers would not deal with Asia where I live or would not ship the stone to you unless you pay up-front, so you'd have to go through the hassle, not to mention the bank charges involved, of having to claim your money back should you not like what's been shipped to you.

Swissdiamond, I would still suggest that you buy from the internet, from the reputable dealers mentioned here on PS. It seems from other postings, you'd be better off, they'll have done all the research for you and save you all the hassles. And they can get one that would most fit your requirements.

 

[swissdiamond]

1680 CHF is about US $1345... for a 0.19 carat white gold ring! And I can assure you that it was not Tiffany''s or Cartier type brand name ring.

Which is why I was a little bit suspicious of Antwerp prices. I have looked at UK, France, Italy, Switzerland and they all seem to be in the same price range. Perhaps the engagement ring culture is not as strong as in the US? thus, less average Joe''s buying diamonds? I think the introduction of the euro has made everything in Europe generally more expensive!

We discussed last night and if we include flights to Antwerp, hotel etc going all the way over would not be worth the hassle or price (then we might as well buy here in Switzerland) so I think I will go ahead and order online. Better get to researching on the best companies that ship overseas!

Thank you for your replies.

momo

 

[jhn]

Not to get the thread offtopic but I can give you an example of pricing here in Sweden. The ring i bought at UnionDiamond was a 0.60 brilliant in a platinum setting. I paid $2000 for it, with custom, VAT and shipping it ended up at $2650. At a retailer here I found almost a diamond like the one i bought, "only" the angles where a little diffrent, the stone and a similar no-name platinumsetting would cost approx $6000...

 

[jhn]

I belive you have to add Belgium VAT to the prices shown on the Antwerp Site. I belive the VAT is around 21%. It’s only if you make an order to be shipped outside EU that you don’t have to pay the tax…

EDIT: You're right, I fyou pick the diamond up, in place (Antwerpen) you don't have to pay the local tax. Wierd, isn't it?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/31/2006 11:17:09 PM
Author: lienTN


(Garry, I''ve asked this question before in another thread (not one that I personally posted) but there was no response from you. What are your reasons for not liking Antwerp''s dealers or dealers in general? I''d love to buy from the internet but for my stone size, 3+ carat and colour (E or F) and clarity (VS) , I am too nervous to have that shipped all the way from America and maybe having to ship it back. Sure, there is insurance but imagine the hassle if the stone got lost or somehow got switched along the way or the seller claims - for whatever reasons - that the stone they receive back is not the same they send to you? And moreover, a lot of online dealers would not deal with Asia where I live or would not ship the stone to you unless you pay up-front, so you''d have to go through the hassle, not to mention the bank charges involved, of having to claim your money back should you not like what''s been shipped to you.

lienTN i feel better that you have done loads of research and might not get ripped off.

99% of real dealers will not waste thheir time selling you a single rock.
Only some fringe dwellers will do that - and they will usuually tell their "dealer" friends over a beer that night how they fleeced a bunny.

Paul from Antwerp who posts here is the 1% because he knows that people who really know their stuff who read this board will help him promote his exceptional quality.

Does it make sense?

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks for your reply, Garry.

It does make sense, yes. And as I mentioned above, most of the dealers will not deal with the public directly anyway (obviously as you said because they buy and sell stones in "bulk" - for want of a better word) and I recommended not buying from the stores or even from so-called dealers in Antwerp unless they (the dealers) come highly recommended and you yourself come armed with plenty of knowledge and experience.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 11/1/2006 3:51:47 AM
Author: jhn
I belive you have to add Belgium VAT to the prices shown on the Antwerp Site. I belive the VAT is around 21%. It’s only if you make an order to be shipped outside EU that you don’t have to pay the tax…

EDIT: You''re right, I fyou pick the diamond up, in place (Antwerpen) you don''t have to pay the local tax. Wierd, isn''t it?

Correction. If we sell to a consumer from inside the European Union, we have to apply the Belgian VAT of 21%.

If the stone is bought by anyone outside of the European Union, whether shipped or picked up in person, the VAT is not applicable, because of the transaction being export. However, we need to have proof of the stone being exported. Thus, if the stone is picked up in Antwerp, the customer needs to have a document stamped by customs when leaving the European Union, and return it to the seller.

That last case is tricky. In a previous job, I once had the case of American customers not taking care of customs, and smuggling the stones into the U.S. It was a 100K-deal, and our company had to pay the 21% VAT to the tax-people, because they considered it as a local sale. Because of that, many offices would charge the VAT in the case of a personal shipment, and repay it after they received the proof of export.

There are other legal repercussions. Registered diamond-dealers in Antwerp can sell to eachother without charging VAT. This is an important advantage, because paying VAT would tie up a lot of money for months. However, we cannot combine this with selling finished jewellery. If we sell finished jewellery, we loose the advantage of trading without VAT. Bigger houses just create a separate legal entity for jewellery, while smaller houses do not enter into jewellery-sales.

Just some background-info.

 

[Phoenix]

Garry, Paul,

I also assume that the reason dealers don''t deal directly with the public is because they normally sell to other dealears and / or ultimately/ directly to jewelery stores. By selling to the public, it would "spoil" the relationship, ie. the stores wouldn''t be able to mark up their prices and after all, they have to make a living, right?