Invitation wording - no titles?

[basil]

Can I word my invitations without titles without it looking too casual? We''d leave off any Mr., Mrs., etc. There are a bunch of reasons I''d like to do this, but our invitations and wedding are not particularly casual, so I don''t want to set the wrong tone?

It would be something like this:

John W. Smith and Sarah M. Jones
request the pleasure of your company
at the marriage of their daughter
Jane E. Smith
to
William N. Green
September 20....etc.

 

[karasue91]

i think that sounds totally fine!!! when i get an invitation i just scan it to see who the bride and groom are anyway, i would never even notice if there were no titles....

 

[zoebartlett]

I don''t see anything wrong with using names only, although it is less formal. I think if you like it that way, go for it.

 

[Independent Gal]

I think it is 100% fine and can still look perfectly formal if the invitations look otherwise formal in terms of paper type, layout, wording, etc. My parents have multiple titles, and his dad, and the two of us are 'Dr." and in addition to looking cluttered, we thought it looked kind of pompous. So we went with no titles on the invitations for WP2, and did some with and some without for the VERY formal WP1, depending on the age, national custom, and stuffiness of the guest (hurray for DIY customization!) and so far even our most etiquette oriented friends have had only praise for the invites. Actually, we misjudged the stuffiness of one guest and sent a 'with titles' invite and he made a point of (jokingly) saying 'what's with all the damn titles?'

 

[basil]

Indy - That''s exactly the reason I don''t want titles! Plus, my mom''s last name is 6 syllables, so it really makes that line much too long.

I''m glad you all think it''s okay!

 

[KimberlyH]

Totally fine to skip it, basil, as a guest I wouldn''t think much of it and if I questioned the formality I would phone the host and ask. Your wording is quite nice!

 

[Haven]

I think it looks fine, and I agree that as long as the paper and wording of the invite convey the formality, omitting the titles shouldn''t give people the wrong idea.

And just an FYI in case you were concerned about omitting professional titles--it is ONLY proper to use "doctor" socially for men, and only if they are MDs.

 

[basil]

Date: 1/27/2008 8:37:16 PM
Author: Haven
I think it looks fine, and I agree that as long as the paper and wording of the invite convey the formality, omitting the titles shouldn''t give people the wrong idea.


And just an FYI in case you were concerned about omitting professional titles--it is ONLY proper to use ''doctor'' socially for men, and only if they are MDs.

Yeah, I read that somewhere. I was warned, though, that certain female relatives would be offended if we used fiance''s title and not mine, or fiance''s title and not my dad''s, or called my mother Mrs. even though her last name is different than my dad''s, etc., etc.

It isn''t worth following etiquette rules if people don''t understand and think you are trying to make some sort of statement that wouldn''t be my intent.

No titles it is then! Another decision made

 

[Independent Gal]

Some might say it isn''t worth preserving an etiquette rule that is demeaning and, so, inherently offensive.

The point of etiquette is to have a way of doing things that is least likely to offend or hurt feelings but this rule does the opposite.

I would never do something the ''proper'' way if it diminished or demeaned someone. And frankly, acknowledging the status and accomplishment of male doctors but not female doctors implicitly diminishes the woman doctor.

OK, I''m being an angry feminist again. (ducks incoming projectiles)...which seems to happen more and more the closer I get to being a married lady. But seriously, can anyone give me one good reason why such a blatantly sexist rule like that should be preserved?!? I am listening, in case someone can.

Alright, rant over.

 

[Haven]

Indy--I''m not defending the practice, I was just providing information about proper etiquette. My guess is that the practice has roots in a time when very few women were given the opportunity to pursue professional degrees at all. I don''t think there is any good reason to preserve this rule, although I *personally* feel that professional titles shouldn''t be used AT ALL in social situations, which is also a deviation from standard etiquette, I know.

Personally, I think the practice of only calling medical doctors "Doctor" socially is offensive, as well, since the PhD is the highest degree one can earn, at least in the USA, yet it is "improper" for a PhD to use the social title of "Dr."

To be honest, though, I have to agree with Judith Martin when she says that less is more, as I often find that the most gracious (and down to earth) people are those that don''t feel the need to advertise their professional titles at all. I work with quite a few PhDs, and the ones who insist being called "Dr. Imsofabulous" always seem to be a bit gauche to me. Of course, there''s nothing wrong with being proud of your professional accomplishments, I just personally don''t like the practice of using a professional title in social situations.

 

[Independent Gal]

I agree with you Haven! And I didn't mean to suggest that you were defending the practice. When you think about it, separating people by whether or not they have a Ph.D. or an MD or a DD (or whatever dentists are) is demeaning and diminishing too.

I never EVER use my title socially. Nor does FI. Nor do my parents use their titles outside of when they 'have to'. I'm also inclined to believe that people who do this outside appropriate professional / necessary situations are compensating for something.

I even hate calling my doctor "Dr." when I'm in her office. I always feel like saying "You want me to call you Dr while you call me by my first name without being invited to do so? Because, like, why? You're in authority over me? I think not. I pay you for your expertise, just like I hire an accountant. You sell me your knowledge and advice. So please, respect ME your CLIENT just as much as you wish to be respected. " But I never have the courage to do so.

All of that said, there are still countries and cultures where titles are very, very normal. In Italy for instance, you get a title if you have any university degree at all, and most people use their title. In Austria, people have titles for everything, even, say, being a letter carrier. And they defend them mightily.

But America is not one of these. And titles have no place here. Hence the origins of "Mr. President". Instead of, say, "Your Excellency" or Highness or anything.

 

[Haven]

Oh I didn''t think you misunderstood me, Indy, no worries!

I definitely agree with you about MDs calling everyone by their first name but expecting to be called "Dr." DEFINITELY. I also wish that there was a higher expectation for MDs to stick to their patient schedules and not waste our time by keeping us in waiting rooms for hours, but that''s another story. (I can''t imagine anyone else abusing their clients'' time more than doctors, can you?)

That''s very interesting about Italy and Austria, I had no idea. What is the official title for a letter carrier?

 

[Independent Gal]

Re the letter carrier, I was exagerating a bit.

But not much! There was a title that a certain kind of civil servant had that was abolished and they went on STRIKE because of it.

But yeah, in some countries like that, not using someone''s title is taken as a big slight, so you have to be careful.

Re the waiting times in Dr.''s offices, don''t even get me started. I have had to wait an HOUR after my appt time, and she just waltzes in 45 minutes late and doesn''t even apologize. And yeah, that was my exact thought "Don''t you think my time is valuable too?" I would change doctors, but I''m in HMO hellllll. Oh, to live in Canada.

 

[basil]

I call every patient by Mr./Ms. Lastname, unless they are a child. Even the drunks in the ER. It''s real fun to be screaming, "Mr. P, HOLD STILL!!" at 4:30 am while the guy with a potentially serious injury thrashes all over the bed, calls you names ("effing nurse" comes to mind), and threatens to beat you and/or sue you if you touch him again.

Oh yes, respect is a great thing, isn''t it?

 

[Independent Gal]

Oh Basil. That sounds pretty horrible! FI was just reading about how nurses, by profession, are the number 1 victims of violence. Something like that. But you''re a doctor aren''t you? Actually, speaking of respect, I wonder if a patient is more likely to assault someone they perceive to be a nurse than a doctor, if you see what I mean.

Well, I admire you in any case, that sure doesn''t sound like fun. And thank you for calling even the drunk ''Mr.'' P. After all he may be drunk and miserable and aggresive and wretched, but he''s still a person, equal in dignity. Even when he''s not acting like it.

 

[Haven]

Date: 1/27/2008 10:33:18 PM
Author: basil
I call every patient by Mr./Ms. Lastname, unless they are a child. Even the drunks in the ER. It''s real fun to be screaming, ''Mr. P, HOLD STILL!!'' at 4:30 am while the guy with a potentially serious injury thrashes all over the bed, calls you names (''effing nurse'' comes to mind), and threatens to beat you and/or sue you if you touch him again.


Oh yes, respect is a great thing, isn''t it?

Oh boy, Basil, you are one patient woman. I can''t even imagine the level of restraint it takes to remain calm and dignified in such a situation.

 

[San Diego Bride]

oh, basil, i laughed reading your post. i can so relate!

it''s particulary entertaining as well when families mistake me for housekeeping. why? because i''m hispanic and therefore couldn''t possibly be the doctor. good times. but it is entertaining to say (after i''ve taken out there trash and put a new bag in the can for them)... "if there''s nothing else i can do for you mr/ms lastname, i''d like to introduce myself as the DOCTOR taking care of your child".

 

[cara]

no titles is cool - set the formality with the other design elements of the inivitation.

but i would either use the full middle name or drop the initials - if you''re not going to write the full name out on your wedding invitation, what occasion would possibly merit its use?