Is ACA compatible to BGD Black vs H&A?

[VieEffects]

I understand there are variations between different diamonds due to unique characteristics, but in general...

Does anyone know if Whiteflash ACA more compatible to Brian Gavin Heart and Arrow? Or is more compatible to Brian Gavin Black?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[lovedogs]

I thought this was an interesting question so I just went to the BGD website. I can't figure out what the difference is between "black" and "h&a". I assume that their h&a are cut to tighter/stricter proportions vs black (even though both are ideal AGS 000 cut), but I can't find anything written on rhe website to corroborate that.

 

[maryjane04]

I think BG Black is reserved for higher colour/clarity?

 

[musicloveranthony]

Black has the narrowest allowances of their products. In the imaging I've seen, they're in the rarest of territory (along with JannPaul)

 

[VieEffects]

It sounds like it is reasonable to assume generally BG Black would perform better than ACA? And ACA is more similar to BG Signature?

I'm very curious about those who own ACA and BGD (Black or Signature) notice any difference. Or if anyone has expertise in the area have to say about the different classes.

I own only ACA myself and it's beautiful, but I might consider something from BGD in future.

 

[musicloveranthony]

It sounds like it is reasonable to assume generally BG Black would perform better than ACA? And ACA is more similar to BG Signature?

Signatures would all qualify as ACA. Not all ACA would qualify as Black

 

[VieEffects]

Signatures would all qualify as ACA. Not all ACA would qualify as Black

Nicely put. I can draw a Venn diagram in my head.

 

[geckodani]

Signatures would all qualify as ACA. Not all ACA would qualify as Black

Like bourbon. All bourbon is whiskey, but not all whiskey is bourbon. That's where my brain went, LOL.

 

[DejaWiz]

It sounds like it is reasonable to assume generally BG Black would perform better than ACA? And ACA is more similar to BG Signature?

I'm very curious about those who own ACA and BGD (Black or Signature) notice any difference. Or if anyone has expertise in the area have to say about the different classes.

I own only ACA myself and it's beautiful, but I might consider something from BGD in future.

Performance-wise, they'd be indiscernible.
Both ACA and BGB are cut to extremely strict criteria for maximized optics and the tightest symmetry precision.

 

[lovedogs]

Black has the narrowest allowances of their products. In the imaging I've seen, they're in the rarest of territory (along with JannPaul)

Ok whoops, I definitely assumed wrong from reading the website.

 

[VieEffects]

I understand there are variations between different diamonds due to unique characteristics, but in general...

Does anyone know if Whiteflash ACA more compatible to Brian Gavin Heart and Arrow? Or is more compatible to Brian Gavin Black?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

Also just re-read my post. Comparable was autocorrected to compatible a few times. Whoops.

 

[kenny]

IMO on this topic it is not possible to separate the science from the marketing.
Of course every company will say theirs is best, but once you get this high on the food chain of diamond cut ...




We mere mortals don't have the technical expertise to recognize let alone see through the branding and marketing-speak to make an authoritative call on a subject so advanced and nuanced.
Plus we can have confirmation bias for the brand we bought.
I certainly suffer from that for ACA, Solasfera, Crafted by Infinity, and Octavia.

I think folks like John Pollard, Brian Gavin himself, and Karl would be the most qualified to rank (to the degree that's even possible) brands of top cuts for quality, but I doubt they would for various reasons.

Plus, even top experts may factor in personal preference, and give varying weight to performance characteristics, such as scintillation vs. fire, vs. contrast, vs, percentage of light return, etc.

 

[MissGotRocks]

At this cutting level, I too doubt you would be able to discern a real difference. I have been extremely happy with all of my ACA diamonds.

 

[headlight]

I have WF ACA studs and 2 BGD solitaires (pendant & ring). The BGD stones are a lot larger than each stud so not sure if possible to make super accurate comparison. Also, studs are 55 tables and the solitaires have larger. The BGD do seem to have their own unique quality about them that seems even crisper and more defined that the ACA studs but, as I said, there is big size difference. Regardless, even if the BGD are “nicer” (not really appropriate word), the ACAs are so ridiculously amazing that it’s like trying to decide if a Bentley or Rolls Royce is nicer (well, as far as I can imagine given I have no personal knowledge of either lol!). Of note, Brian Gavin was Whiteflash and then broke off to do BGD so I don’t know if there would be a difference. In working with both it seemed to me that BGD was more “boutique” and that he personally oversaw the cutting and buying of the rough, but that could just be my perception. Either way you cannot make a mistake!!!!!!!

 

[VieEffects]

I have WF ACA studs and 2 BGD solitaires (pendant & ring). The BGD stones are a lot larger than each stud so not sure if possible to make super accurate comparison. Also, studs are 55 tables and the solitaires have larger. The BGD do seem to have their own unique quality about them that seems even crisper and more defined that the ACA studs but, as I said, there is big size difference. Regardless, even if the BGD are “nicer” (not really appropriate word), the ACAs are so ridiculously amazing that it’s like trying to decide if a Bentley or Rolls Royce is nicer (well, as far as I can imagine given I have no personal knowledge of either lol!). Of note, Brian Gavin was Whiteflash and then broke off to do BGD so I don’t know if there would be a difference. In working with both it seemed to me that BGD was more “boutique” and that he personally oversaw the cutting and buying of the rough, but that could just be my perception. Either way you cannot make a mistake!!!!!!!

Thank you for sharing your first hand experience. I too have limited knowledge, and definitely have no expertise in the technical aspects of cut quality. I care mostly, like you said, about how "nice" it looks, so the performance aspect in terms of fire/flash/sparkle. May I ask what made you venture out to BGD after purchasing ACA (or the other way around)?

From the sounds of @DejaWiz and @MissGotRocks it seems that the average consumer would be not able to tell the difference. Thanks for chiming in!

I now wonder if it's "worth it" to pay extra, whether for ACA vs BG Signature, or Black vs ACA from a cost reward perspective, if the average untrained eye cannot tell the difference. There is no "right" answer, of course.

 

[DejaWiz]

From the sounds of @DejaWiz and @MissGotRocks it seems that the average consumer would be not able to tell the difference. Thanks for chiming in!

I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that a majority of consumers as well as even trade professionals wouldn't be able to tell the difference if a mix of ACAs and BGBs with similar color grades were sitting next to each other and they weren't allowed to look at the laser inscriptions.

 

[headlight]

Thank you for sharing your first hand experience. I too have limited knowledge, and definitely have no expertise in the technical aspects of cut quality. I care mostly, like you said, about how "nice" it looks, so the performance aspect in terms of fire/flash/sparkle. May I ask what made you venture out to BGD after purchasing ACA (or the other way around)?

From the sounds of @DejaWiz and @MissGotRocks it seems that the average consumer would be not able to tell the difference. Thanks for chiming in!

I now wonder if it's "worth it" to pay extra, whether for ACA vs BG Signature, or Black vs ACA from a cost reward perspective, if the average untrained eye cannot tell the difference. There is no "right" answer, of course.

I said I didn’t have knowledge about Rolls Royce v Bentley but I do know a few things, I’m a GIA Graduate Gemologist (not employed so not a PS Trade participant). With that said, GIA does not cover anything regarding ”super ideals”. Anything I’ve learned about it has literally been via PS!
Are you asking if it’s worth paying for any of these vendor’s stones vs other diamonds? YES (emphasized infinitely) worth paying for super ideal. There is no price you can put on having the confidence that you have the best performance and optical symmetry on your hand.
If you are asking about paying for any (perceived) differences between the super ideal makers, the element that comes into play is who has the stone with your desired carat weight PLUS color PLUS clarity. When we are talking about these exclusive stones that’s what you are up against: availability of what you want for the Cs beyond cut.
Then there’s things like promos and the highly touted WF trade-up program. But, with that said, sometimes the easy trade up is not doable if the desired specs are not available.
I came across BG for recuts (which was amazing to go through with BG so closely with him each step of the way - very personalized).

WF is very highly touted here, as you know, which is how it I found out about them.

I do have a GIA 3X that is definitely “close” to the performance of my ideals, and also definitely an oddity as far as specs go and optics: all “excellents” for HCA yet some proportions total no-nos here on PS yet when I compare to my super ideals it is comparable or just slightly off in certain environments yet bottom line is there is always the mental doubt it doesn’t measure up. That is very important and shouldn’t be overlooked. Confidence about your purchase is worth every penny. Can’t emphasize this enough. Even if you have to go smaller, that super ideal stone will win every time.

 

[headlight]

I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that a majority of consumers as well as even trade professionals wouldn't be able to tell the difference if a mix of ACAs and BGBs with similar color grades were sitting next to each other and they weren't allowed to look at the laser inscriptions.

Agree

 

[VieEffects]

I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that a majority of consumers as well as even trade professionals wouldn't be able to tell the difference if a mix of ACAs and BGBs with similar color grades were sitting next to each other and they weren't allowed to look at the laser inscriptions.

I'd pay to watch a show where a tray of super ideal diamonds are put in front of trade professionals where they are left to their own defences to differentiate.

 

[VieEffects]

Then there’s things like promos and the highly touted WF trade-up program. But, with that said, sometimes the easy trade up is not doable if the desired specs are not available.

Service and availability are definitely very important factors. Trade-ups are highly valuable to many people too.

I do have a GIA 3X that is definitely “close” to the performance of my ideals, and also definitely an oddity as far as specs go and optics: all “excellents” for HCA yet some proportions total no-nos here on PS yet when I compare to my super ideals it is comparable or just slightly off in certain environments yet bottom line is there is always the mental doubt it doesn’t measure up. That is very important and shouldn’t be overlooked. Confidence about your purchase is worth every penny. Can’t emphasize this enough. Even if you have to go smaller, that super ideal stone will win every time.

I can't agree more, mind clean is very important. I used to buy less expensive items that are not the best quality, thinking I'll save money. However, now I see it as "wasting" that amount that I've spent, because I could have just put it toward something that I really want, which I will inevitably get later on regardless. So yes, it will have to be super ideal diamonds for me... probably for the rest of my life lol. With that said, from what I gathered here, I doubt I can tell the difference between ACA vs BGD. So like you said, it's likely best to pick based on availability and price, at least for me personally (since I believe service is amazing with all these vendors, and trade-up is not an important factor to me).

 

[MamaBear]

In my experience, with my ACA’s and BG stones, my friends (the average consumers) are wowed by the performance of my stones. BUT, then they say, they need to clean their diamond! As if it’s just a cleaning issue. They”know” a beautiful diamond when they see it, but there is the disconnect on “every diamond sparkles the same”. So, I would say, while the average consumer doesn’t know about branded ideals, they DO notice the performance difference.

 

[headlight]

In my experience, with my ACA’s and BG stones, my friends (the average consumers) are wowed by the performance of my stones. BUT, then they say, they need to clean their diamond! As if it’s just a cleaning issue. They”know” a beautiful diamond when they see it, but there is the disconnect on “every diamond sparkles the same”. So, I would say, while the average consumer doesn’t know about branded ideals, they DO notice the performance difference.

Yes and yes… cleaning issue very true and the biggest diff I experience btwn my super ideals and my 3X.

 

[VieEffects]

In my experience, with my ACA’s and BG stones, my friends (the average consumers) are wowed by the performance of my stones. BUT, then they say, they need to clean their diamond! As if it’s just a cleaning issue. They”know” a beautiful diamond when they see it, but there is the disconnect on “every diamond sparkles the same”. So, I would say, while the average consumer doesn’t know about branded ideals, they DO notice the performance difference.

Imagine all you have to do to get any diamond to sparkle is to clean it! That would be so nice

 

[Texas Leaguer]

There are only a handful of cutters capable of producing super ideals. It is a very specialized and very intentional endeavor. There are also only a handful of merchants who dedicate themselves to bringing them to market. It is something of an excruciating business!

Even at this level of precision, there is a small range within which specific performance provides for a very small range of tastes. This range exists both between brands and within brands.

When you buy a superideal you are buying the finest crafted diamond available. And provided that other factors like transparency are accounted for in the brand, you are getting the finest performing diamonds available.

There really is no secret sauce. Legitimate super ideal sellers provide comprehensive information that enables the world to see all of the cut quality attributes. We have great respect for all merchants who have dedicated themselves to this level of excellence. There should be more of us, but the bar is high and not all retailers are willing take on the many challenges involved.

In separating true quality attributes from marketing spin, if claims are made without substantiation, or if claims are made that are confusing or difficult to understand, you just might be seeing marketing spin!