Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope image

[Anonymous6]

First of all, I apologize if I'm posting too many new threads... hope I'm not offending anyone.


I was wondering if I go look at diamonds and have let's say 2 or 3 that I've narrowed it down to. Is it polite to ask for a copy of the certificates (GIA or whatever it may be) that way I can have all the specific specs... and ask for the ideal scope image (are there always ideal scope images? and if there isn't, should I be concerned?)

I guess what I'm asking is, what is polite to ask for and what is not? And be as specific as possible.

What I'd like to do is diamond search like crazy, get as many specs as I can on certain diamonds, and come back to price scope to use the HCA calculator, use this forum, and search for similar diamonds to see how the price is, etc etc...

but I'm not sure of the ethics in a B&M location or just working with a vendor in general.

 

[Circe]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

A good dealer will offer all of that right off the bat (though, be warned, the idealscope is kinda a PS thing, and a lot of the old-timey vendors will look at you like you're cracked). But the certificate is something you shouldn't feel the least bit shy about asking for.

If you're in NY, as I think I remember from one of your previous posts, I'd recommend making appointments with some PS vendors on 47th, and maybe even going out to Good Old Gold in Long Island. I haven't dealt with any of the other NY dealers myself, but I'm in the process of buying stones from ID Jewelry, and I'd recommend them without a qualm: the vendor's name is Yekutiel, and he's a charming, friendly, honest guy. I wandered in off the street without a call, and he found me exactly what I was looking for in under 20 minutes, called it in, and had a copy of the report printed out for me after running it through the HCA *for* me. *And* he called to follow up and be certain that I was getting exactly what I wanted. Talk about customer service!

 

[Anonymous6]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

I'm in Dallas! Boo

The one place I went to, the guy was primarily interested in getting a bunch of diamonds in front of me with their basic specs and seeing what I could see with my naked eye. He knew I wasn't very well educated on diamonds, so the point he was basically pushing to me was "if your eyes can honestly barely tell a difference, yet the price tag is +/- thousands of dollars, you need to figure out if it's worth it.


But now that I'm educated, I'm concerned with getting every spec as possible ha. I'm gonna go back in and he's gonna be like "well well well"

 

[Circe]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Freudian slip, then - sorry!

There are two vendors who specialize in ideal-cut diamonds in Houston (dunno if you'd want to take a weekend trip?), Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds, both of which are very highly regarded. And shopping online, once you've seen enough stones in person to know how color sensitive you are, if you prefer FICs vs. TICs., if you have the eagle eyes to spot inclusions in "eye-clean" stones and all of that, is definitely something you should consider. But in the meantime, hopefully some Dallas PS'rs will pipe up about good local vendors, and you'll have some options ... but whoever you wind up going to, ask for all the info. you need to feel comfortable, and don't feel a twinge.

 

[slg47]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Nothing wrong with asking to see the copy of the certificate-you are the customer and you should have all of the information. Many vendors do not have IS. You should also ask to see the diamonds in different lighting and under a loupe. Is it possible for the vendor to call in some virtual listings, so you can 'pre-shop' online and then see them in person?

 

[Anonymous6]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Doh, I was in Houston for Thanksgiving... just didn't have any time at all to checkout Whiteflash.

A weekend trip might be in my near future.

I do know I think I have my mindset on a triple ex cut.... I just need to see what my eyes can see in color. Some people say it really matters, you'll see a huge difference under the right lighting and set on white gold or platinum between an H or I and a G or better.

 

[Amys Bling]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

you should ask for certificates or the certificate # before purchasing so you know that you are buying what they say you are buying. Some B&M stores dont have idealscoe, but ask.

 

[swingirl]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Doh, I was in Houston for Thanksgiving... just didn't have any time at all to checkout Whiteflash.

Keep in mind BGD and WF are not store fronts and you can't walk in to check them out. You can check out their websites and talk to them on the phone and when you have narrowed it down go to their office by appointment to view the stones. But they don't keep their stones and settings at their office location.

 

[kenny]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Don't worry too much about being polite.
Protect yourself by insisting on all the information you need to feel comfortable making the purchase.
If they will not provide it shop somewhere else and tell them why.

It's your money; that makes you the boss.

 

[Amys Bling]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Don't worry too much about being polite.
Protect yourself by insisting on all the information you need to feel comfortable making the purchase.
If they will not provide it shop somewhere else.

It's your money; that makes you the boss.

+1 Kenny.

It's your money- your decision- polite or not you want to make the best decision you can.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

+1 Kenny as well.
IN fact, if a seller is offering diamonds of import ( say stones over $1200 in a 1/2ct size, or over $2500 in a one carat size), don't even consider them without a GIA report- and be specific- not any lab will do.
One exception is AGSL lab- who is also highly regarded and perfectly acceptable.

If a seller is offering diamonds with any other reports, they need to explain why.

In terms of IdealScope- it's not all that widely accepted- and many very trustworthy sellers won't have one- so I put the two items in separate categories. By all means, ask- but don't be surprised if they've never heard of it.
Lack of IS, in itself, is not a good reason to rule out a seller IMO.
Pushing stones as "certified " with reports they know to be sub-standard, is a good reason to move to a different seller.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

I guess I see it a little differently.

If you know upfront that you're not going to be buying at a particular store for whatever reason (like price), I think it's unreasonable for you to be asking them to do a whole lot of 'free' work in order to support your education. Your plan makes it clear that you are hoping to collect as much information as possible and then buy from whoever turns out to be the cheapest. That's unlikely to be your local B&M and both you and they know it. The big advantage your local jeweler has is that they've got a convenient showroom, cheerful salespeople and are willing to do quite a bit for you in advance of the sale in the hopes of earning your business. That's their decison but, In my opinion, if you know this isn't going to happen, I think it's unethical to milk them for as much of their time as they're willing to give you before you head for the door. These are your neighbors and it's no more fair to knowingly waste their time and money than it is for YOUR customers to do the same for you. Buy somewhere else if you want, and by all means give them a shot if they want to try and compete and they know what they're getting into, but I don't think you should lead them on in order to get a free education.

 

[Anonymous6]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Oh no, that was definitely not the plan.

In fact, I plan on buying from this location. I do see what you're saying though. I'd only ask if I was truly interested in the stone.

But you say it's a waste of their time and effort/energy... when really, how hard is it to give me a copy of the GIA certificate for the 2 or 3 diamonds I'm interested in? If anything, I'd be weired out if they said, "No, we don't actually show our customers the certificates" or something along those lines.

I mean look at car salesmen... They could spit information at you 24/7, go driving around with you on test drives, be in touch with you, and you could just end up finding the same vehicle for cheaper elsewhere.

Part of being a good salesman (whether it be diamonds, cars, or televisions whatever) is helping and assisting the customer. You call it being a waste of energy/effort when others may call it good customer service.

I know that's not exactly what you're saying and I know the point you're trying to make... but it's not like I'm walking into retail stores in the mall asking for GIA certificates of a bunch of their diamonds.

If I narrow it down to 2 or 3 at local jeweler I've enjoyed doing business with, then it should be reasonable for me to ask for AS MANY specs as I can on paper...

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

I did not get your point Neil- asking for a copy of a GIA report is not a lot of work for a merchant.... most store have copy machines- and if a potential customer walks ion looking for a stone, making a copy should not be all that big a deal..
Working up detailed reports, sarin scans, or other things that some might want, yes, that's more work- but not simply asking for the GIA....

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

I did not get your point Neil- asking for a copy of a GIA report is not a lot of work for a merchant.... most store have copy machines- and if a potential customer walks ion looking for a stone, making a copy should not be all that big a deal.
Working up detailed reports, sarin scans, or other things that some might want, yes, that's more work- but not simply asking for the GIA....

I agree, they should have a lab report on every stone and should have no problem providing a copy on request. An IS image, or any image actually, is a different matter. Most storefront operations are not set up to do this effectively and, as you know, it's more difficult to do well than it seems at first blush. The same is true with Sarin scans. A few will have it, and they'll proudly be promoting it, but most will need to go out of their way and pay some subcontractor (like me ) to do it for them. If it's a legit part of the pitch, I see no problem with people asking but it's increasingly common for people to spend hours and hours in the showroom asking questions of the staff, ordering in stones so they can see them in person, using the tools etc.m in order to callibrate their eyes about what the various images look like as opposed to what the real stones look like, so that they can then buy from somewhere else (like online) that offers the images but where it's difficult to look at the stones in person in order to get cheaper prices. Even that's ok if they are legitimately in the running but I've met with several people lately who have done this to stores where they had no intention of buying anything there. I guess it just has me sensitive to it now. This callibration is a huge problem for people trying to shop online based purely on lab data, IS, ASET and photographic images and it's building resentment from the locals that I think is not entirely unjustified. Go for price if you like (and that's what I do when I shop. I'm a low budget kind of guy), but taking the 'free' Cadillac service from the local store and then walking strikes me as abusive.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it polite to ask for the certificate and idealscope i

Now I get it Neil!!!
Don't get me started- it's not just people shopping in stores who subsequently end up buying online....
People can request all kinds of very time consuming stuff, take hours of valuable time, only to let you know- "OK- when I buy my diamond in 2020, I'll keep you in mind."

BUT- if someone wants to be successful in this- or any business- a good piece of advice is to take everyone seriously, and provide whatever you can, and cheerfully.
Having been on these boards with you for many years, I know you agree that it's far better to make every effort at assisting folks- not because they'll spend money, but because it's the right thing to do.