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is this a good idea or am i losing my mind??

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burntskye

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
33
I started my gem search for my engagement ring a couple of months ago. the deep down the rabbit hole i went :) the more sucked in got. Now its as though my requirements are just unable to be satisfied.... until now? I have an idea but as a newbie to the gemstone world, i have no idea if its even realistic. Can you, the subject matter experts, tell me if this is even feasible?

A little background/info - i am custom building an incredibly simple engagement ring. It will be a 7-9mm sapphire set in a standard 4-6 prong platinum tiffany setting. easy. finding the magical stone, however, has proven to be quite challenging.

I have been chatting back and forth with Laura with Gemfix and she has been incredibly helpful and patient as i ask my unending questions. I have been interested in the silvery sharpness of their Montana sapphires. Even though i am shooting for low/icy saturation (which she totally gets based on her additional suggestions to me) she suggested the below stone. it could be perfect. Its 4.03 carats, certified unheated, color change, vvs, 8.9x7.4mm, 6.5mm deep, cushion mixed cut. My only concern is that in each of the photos, i feel like i can see a light vertical zone/uneven saturation just left of the middle with the top left and bottom right corners of the stone the most saturated. is this a zone? or a play on the lights. i have asked Laura these color questions as well because i know lighting can just really mess up photos.

On to my magic idea - im not in love with the cut, its not cut by Andrew, i am partial to Portuguese round or his round Roulette cut. This is also a little big - with 6.5 mm depth - does that seem like a large belly? Would it be realistic to get this recut into either a Portuguese Round or Portuguese cushion? I'm not worried about carat weight but how much table size would i be sacrificing if i did this? I was thinking that if there is an outer zone, the darker areas might be cut off with a recut and would eliminate that problem. Also, how much does this normally cost and how long does it normally take? I realize these are all ballpark ideas, but i've never done this before.

if i could get this amazing certified untreated color change stone in the optimal cut of my dreams, well, i would be in heaven.

thanks for the input!

sapphire_blue_1151_2.jpgsapphire_blue_1151_a_1.jpgsapphire_blue_1151_in_a.jpg
 
Honestly, it's probably an expensive stone, and I wouldn't risk the loss of saturation with a recut, as well as the loss of carat weight. It may have a high crown, did you ask for a photo on it's table? That would be helpful.

I don't notice the loss of saturation in that area you mention, although it could be due to zoning, not really sure without a side view.
 
Thanks TL! Since Gemfix doesnt have alot of additional photos, I'll have to rely on Laura's response on the stone and the even saturation. I'll ask about the crown too.
 
Hello,

just my opinion...

This is a fantastic gem - 4,03 ct and a color change with beautiful colors - to recut this is no good idea!

It is like transforming a Porsche 911 into a VW Käfer ( Beetle)

Think you can get a sapphire with the size and color you want but please don' t destroy this top gem - in my opinion a world class piece!

On gemfix homepage you find round portugiese - around 6,5 mm- 7 mmm you will get max. 1,8 - 2,2 ct - a lighter stone and then you have to take it! If you don't like it and sell it you will get maybe 1000- 1200 $.

The price for this gem is very good compared to others on this homepage.
 
I know a poster who has seen this stone in person and agonized over keeping it or not.

The problem I have with the stone is that it is quite deep, and as a result it faces up small for it's size. You're paying for a lot of carat weight that you're not seeing. If you do a recut, you're playing a game of "am I adding value or detracting value?" and that's not a safe game to play with an expensive gemstone. I am also bothered by the zoning and the cut issues.

But I have not seen it in person, so maybe the person who returned it will speak up with her experience and her pictures of it.
 
You only re-cut the stone to enhance its beauty, this stone is gorgeous(there might be some slight zoning, I cant tell). Of course, you can always think,"gee" let me change the cut to a round brilliant, but as everyone said, you will be paying 4 carat stone, to get something smaller and possibly less good looking. Lose-lose situation IMHO.

Marlow, I get you, it becomes rounder. :clap:
 
I would not recut it -- if i really disliked the shape I would keep looking.
 
Th stone has (a) fabulous colour(s)!!
If you not really love the shape I would continue your search. Definitely not recut it!
 
LOL! I've just put a long post on your Montana thread.

I agree with all the PSers above this is NOT a gem to recut. However to put your mind at rest...
My only concern is that in each of the photos, i feel like i can see a light vertical zone/uneven saturation just left of the middle with the top left and bottom right corners of the stone the most saturated. is this a zone? or a play on the lights. i have asked Laura these color questions as well because i know lighting can just really mess up photos.
Click to expand...
There is no lighter area but you have picked up on the fact that this looks as though it has a darker zoning stripe from top LHS to bottom RHS. It's still a beautiful stone and someone will decide they love it but it obviously isn't you.

Don't despair, we can widen the search!
 
Take a look at the lavender spinels at Africa Gemsand see if there's anything that appeals to you. They have quite a few at the moment however... most of theirs are native cut. This is not a problem. Jerry Newman is a magician at tweaking pavillions to maximise beauty and relatively inexpensive I believe.

Spinels also have better dispersion (fire - multicoloured sparkles) than sapphires ;))
 
I did a quick calculation and it isn't considered deep in the CS world, although it comes close to being considered deep. I also don't think what you are seeing is zoning, but contrast scintillation and there is a strong possibility that this light play will shift as you move the stone around. I would not even recommend tweaking the stone because the benefits FAR outweighs the cons.

Let's presume a price tag of $1200/ct to keep my calculations simple.
Recutting into a round = 7 mm will be the absolute largest size he can keep (you have to look at the shortest width).
Carat weight loss will drop from 4 ct to probably 2 carats at best based on the 7 mm size.
Cutting fee = $200
Carat weight loss = $ 600/ct
Total loss = over $2000.
Colour loss = the greatest! To lose this much weight mean losing an incredible amount of saturation, which drops the value of this sapphire significantly.

So all in all, you are paying $4800 for the sapphire but ending up with a stone that is worth $2000 or less in the end.
 
To all, thank you!!! :) I appreciate the honesty and love for this stone and reasoning behind not cutting it down. It is simply beautiful, but probably not what i am going for because of the depth (as Freke mentioned - not a larger table) and the darker tone in the corners that Starzin confirmed. I wont mess with it - no reason to hurt a beautiful thing!
 
Do not despair! I spent months looking and seeing loads of beautiful but not-quite-right things, and one day I stumbled onto 'the one' - it takes some patience and optimism but your stone is out there :)

I agree with everyone about this one - I wouldn't recut it. I think it's stunning as is, even with it's little imperfections :) (character! hehe!)

Keep an open mind, and check as many sources as you can as often as you can :) I know in my case what got me really excited was slightly unexpected, I had been looking for a lighter-toned stone and ended up with a fairly dark one (I have this problem all the time. What I think I want is often not what I end up LOVING, whether it's clothes or shoes or stones, so I've learned to "try everything on" so to speak.)'
 
Good-oh! At least we know what colour lavender you're interested in as well. Don't forget to look at Africa Gems - they have spinels and sapphires.
 
thanks for the vote of confidence Deskjockey! It can be discouraging! I have to keep telling myself not to settle because i think everything is SO PRETTY. I am trying to be patient and am really open to pretty much anything amazing. I'm not in a rush but the CS world is vast and deep. Either way, i think i am hooked and will probably be around after i get "my" stone. :love:
 
Can someone post a link to the stone? I don't see it on the Montana sapphires page. Or did I not look properly?
 
A spinel is a wonderful idea!!!
 
pregcurious|1408718399|3737497 said:
Can someone post a link to the stone? I don't see it on the Montana sapphires page. Or did I not look properly?
Click to expand...

of course, sorry! Here's the link. Its not montana - its on the blue page - #1151 - first on the 13th row. http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
 
Thanks for the link! I love how it shifts. I like the elongated cushion and think it would be flattering on the finger because it would give an elongated look.

Sapphire is more durable than spinel. On the Mohs scale, sapphire is 9 while spinel is 8, but the scale is not linear; my understanding is that sapphire is 2x harder than spinel. I am a big spinel fan, but if you do plan to wear your ering everyday, you could consider sapphire over spinel for the added durability. Over time, even sapphire will show wear on the facet junctions.

It can be difficult to find a colored stone that has the exact color, clarity, size, cut quality, and shape we want. I usually compromise on shape first because I cannot compromise on having the right color, eye cleanliness, size or cut quality (no window, symmetrical etc). Just a personal preference.
 
pregcurious|1408727076|3737570 said:
Thanks for the link! I love how it shifts.

Sapphire is more durable for spinel. On the Mohs scale, sapphire is 9 while spinel is 8, but the scale is not linear; my understanding is that sapphire is 2x harder than spinel. I am a big spinel fan, but if you do plan to wear your ering everyday, you could consider sapphire over spinel for the added durability.

It can be difficult to find a colored stone that has the exact color, clarity, size, cut quality, and shape we want. I usually compromise on shape first because I cannot compromise on having the right color, eye cleanliness, size or cut quality (no window, symmetrical etc). Just a personal preference.
Click to expand...

Thanks Pregcurious - thats actually the direction i am going i think. I started my search preferring a round cut but am willing to be flexible as the other features you listed are more important to me.

I do love some lavender spinels i've seen and i fell in love with this cobalt spinel from Wildfishgems (and i normally am not a huge fan of colorless stones!) but its out of my price range: http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11030/18358

Interesting about the hardness/toughness - i read some articles that explained the difference and i think i want to stick with sapphires if i can.

Thanks again!
 
burntskye|1408727567|3737578 said:
pregcurious|1408727076|3737570 said:
Thanks for the link! I love how it shifts.

Sapphire is more durable for spinel. On the Mohs scale, sapphire is 9 while spinel is 8, but the scale is not linear; my understanding is that sapphire is 2x harder than spinel. I am a big spinel fan, but if you do plan to wear your ering everyday, you could consider sapphire over spinel for the added durability.

It can be difficult to find a colored stone that has the exact color, clarity, size, cut quality, and shape we want. I usually compromise on shape first because I cannot compromise on having the right color, eye cleanliness, size or cut quality (no window, symmetrical etc). Just a personal preference.
Click to expand...

Thanks Pregcurious - thats actually the direction i am going i think. I started my search preferring a round cut but am willing to be flexible as the other features you listed are more important to me.

I do love some lavender spinels i've seen and i fell in love with this cobalt spinel from Wildfishgems (and i normally am not a huge fan of colorless stones!) but its out of my price range: http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11030/18358

Interesting about the hardness/toughness - i read some articles that explained the difference and i think i want to stick with sapphires if i can.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I'm unsure how that spinel can be cobalt when it's colorless????

If it's super pale in color, then I don't see how cobalt can be a chromophore, and even if it is, it isn't making a dent in the color department. Nothing wrong with colorless spinels, but I wouldn't pay for the fact it has cobalt in it. I have a super pale lavender spinel, almost verging on colorless, 2 carats, and it was $20. Prices are all over the place I suppose. If you do spend a great deal, make sure it has a little color, unless it's a white diamond.
 
Gubelin deemed it to be coloured by cobalt and a very light blue colour.

rbs310-1certgu.jpg
 
I think its the lightest of light blues - you can see from one angle in the photos the sky blue color. its got the Gubelin cert....

I spoke with Ed at Wild Fish Gems about this stone and he went on and on about how unbelievable and rare it was.
 
burntskye|1408731091|3737615 said:
I think its the lightest of light blues - you can see from one angle in the photos the sky blue color. its got the Gubelin cert....

I spoke with Ed at Wild Fish Gems about this stone and he went on and on about how unbelievable and rare it was.
Click to expand...

Maybe to a collector, but most people won't know the difference. It's colorless with a hint of blue.
 
So inexpensive and well cut!
 
Thanks TL! I think i am going to stick with sapphires since they are harder and this will an every day (forever) ring. i do love spinels and their sparkle! There's a lavender spinel ring floating around on PS that stopped my heart :love: but i am overwhelmed with all my sapphire choices as it is. thanks again!
 
burntskye|1408732508|3737644 said:
Thanks TL! I think i am going to stick with sapphires since they are harder and this will an every day (forever) ring. i do love spinels and their sparkle! There's a lavender spinel ring floating around on PS that stopped my heart :love: but i am overwhelmed with all my sapphire choices as it is. thanks again!
Click to expand...

You're welcome. If you do get a colorless sapphire though, get a lab report, well that should be said of any sapphire really.

Good luck on your search.
 
cobalt spinel - colorless ( faint blue )

I want to post a part of my first posting here:

-------
Dr. Schmetzer was so kind to give me a copy of:

"Colour of natural spinels, gahnospinel and gahnites" (Schmetzer,Hasel and Amthauer - 1989 Neues Jahrbuch Miner. Abh.

This is a part of the conclusion of this article which will help you to understand Co-spinel:

""The most surprising result of this study was the distinct of cobalt on the colour of a great percentage of natural spinels from Sri Lanka.
.....,the influence of cobalt was overlooked for a long time. This is understandable by the fact that extremely small amounts of cobalt in the range of 0,00X wt % Co are sufficient to produce an intense blue coloration in spinels. These concentration.. are below the detection limit of the electron microprobe.""

For red spinel: 0,0X to 0,5 wt.% Cr (Chrome) - blue/purple blue 0,X to 5,0 wt.% Fe (Iron)

So - a "cobalt spinel" is never dominantly coloured by Co - it is (Sri Lanka) a combination of Fe2 and Co2 and the beautiful blues
from Luc Yen have a lower Fe2 content.

In my opinion it is very difficult to find cobalt bearing spinel - you need a specialist for these rare gems. Forget the Chelsea Filter.

------

So detecting cobalt in a near colorless gem - I want to know HOW they detect it ??? I will ask Dr. Schmetzer.

IMO you cannot call a spinel like this a cobalt spinel. And the price - OMG - but I like it - around 200 - 300 $ pct maximum

I will post a link - they offer cobalt spinel for a good worth to recut them.
 
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