Is this a hazy diamond?

[ssak22]

Hello! I am a new user looking to buy a diamond and trying to learn as much as I can along the way. I posted the stone below to another discussion forum outside of Pricescope and a diamond expert replied and said that it is hazy. I am hoping to get some additional opinions.

https://www.rarecarat.com/diamond/103347245/1.7ct-i-vs2-rare-carat-ideal-cut-round-diamond?ref=back&ts=Search&cp=1&cs=0

The diamond is 1.7 carat, I color, VS2 clarity, and excellent cut. I chose this because it seemed to be a good option for the size, color, and budget I am targeting, but am still learning and would appreciate any other opinions

 

[musicloveranthony]

A VS2 with clouds not shown could definitely be hazy or milky looking. The way stones are video and photographed for sites often hides that effect. If the rep that you spoke to said that I'd definitely believe them

 

[ssak22]

A VS2 with clouds not shown could definitely be hazy or milky looking. The way stones are video and photographed for sites often hides that effect. If the rep that you spoke to said that I'd definitely believe them

Okay, thanks that's good to know! The person who told me the diamond looks hazy has not actually seen the stone in person, he just viewed the link I posted here. The only reason I am slightly skeptical of his opinion is that he owns his own diamond sourcing/jewelry business and wants me to work with him. So it's in his best interest to discourage me from buying an option that I found online on my own. I personally don't see the haziness in the online photos/video, but I do have an untrained eye.

 

[musicloveranthony]

Okay, thanks that's good to know! The person who told me the diamond looks hazy has not actually seen the stone in person, he just viewed the link I posted here. The only reason I am slightly skeptical of his opinion is that he owns his own diamond sourcing/jewelry business and wants me to work with him. So it's in his best interest to discourage me from buying an option that I found online on my own. I personally don't see the haziness in the online photos/video, but I do have an untrained eye.

Interesting!! Yeah that sounds like there could be conflict of interest. I guess personally I don't see anything too alarming with the clarity. The cut isn't great, though. Are you open to other options? I can look around a bit and see what else is out there. I'm sure others will, also. What's your price range and size goal?

 

[musicloveranthony]

Here's a couple about that size and color. Both are cut really fantastically well - among the best you'll ever see. They'd definitely both be clean looking and have no haze or milkiness. The second one, the 1.8 is a very white-looking K color!

Diamond | 1.613 ct K VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4524089

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.613 carat K color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4524089

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.81 ct K VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4462538

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.81 carat K color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4462538

www.whiteflash.com

 

[ssak22]

I'm definitely open to other options! I am hoping to stay under 12-13k with a carat size of 1.7+. I will be setting the stone in yellow gold and am okay with a color of I or above (maybe willing to go down to J to achieve a better cut, would be interested to hear opinions on that).

Is there anything specific that concerns you with the cut of the diamond I linked? I plugged the GIA number into the HCA tool and it returned a score of 1.9 with very good light return, excellent fire, very good scintillation, and good spread. I would love to get something that scores excellent in every category, but not sure if it would be achievable within my price range without significantly decreasing size or clarity.

 

[ssak22]

Here's a couple about that size and color. Both are cut really fantastically well - among the best you'll ever see. They'd definitely both be clean looking and have no haze or milkiness. The second one, the 1.8 is a very white-looking K color!

Diamond | 1.613 ct K VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4524089

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.613 carat K color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4524089

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.81 ct K VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4462538

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.81 carat K color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4462538

www.whiteflash.com

Thank you!! Those both definitely have a beautiful cut, may it would be worth it to compromise on color for these. Do you think the cavity on the second one could cause any issues?

 

[musicloveranthony]

Thank you!! Those both definitely have a beautiful cut, may it would be worth it to compromise on color for these. Do you think the cavity on the second one could cause any issues?

I honestly think either of these is going to face up much whiter than you’d expect for the color. I had a super-ideal cut K colored stone and it was incredibly white appearing. Likely the only way one would notice the color is if it were next to whiter stones in a ring, or if they were looking from the side or bottom of the stone. Placing the stone in yellow gold tends to create more contrast that white gold which makes the stone look even whiter (in my opinion). I would have no concerns with any of the inclusions in either of the stones. That company linked to has great customer service. If you contact them they’d be helpful with any questions

 

[ssak22]

I honestly think either of these is going to face up much whiter than you’d expect for the color. I had a super-ideal cut K colored stone and it was incredibly white appearing. Likely the only way one would notice the color is if it were next to whiter stones in a ring, or if they were looking from the side or bottom of the stone. Placing the stone in yellow gold tends to create more contrast that white gold which makes the stone look even whiter (in my opinion). I would have no concerns with any of the inclusions in either of the stones. That company linked to has great customer service. If you contact them they’d be helpful with any questions

Great, I will check them out. Thank you for your advice, it is much appreciated!

 

[lovedogs]

The original one you posted isnt well cut, so definitely dont buy it. I would second the recommendation to look at whiteflash or other vendors with truly well cut stones (victor canera, brian gavin, continental legacy collection, etc)

 

[musicloveranthony]

The original one you posted isnt well cut, so definitely dont buy it. I would second the recommendation to look at whiteflash or other vendors with truly well cut stones (victor canera, brian gavin, continental legacy collection, etc)

Ohhh Brian Gavin has this one. It also looks amazing! Just another one to compare to https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...roducts/1-61-k-vs2brian-gavin-signature-round

 

[momofive]

Most of the recommended vendors on here will give you an unbiased opinion on any particular stone if you call and speak with a sales rep. Then always check back here with specs, videos etc. to see what the experts on this forum think. They are awesome at ferreting out great options for diamonds. And it is totally unbiased as they are not selling anything!
Good luck!

 

[luckygreen317]

An excellent cut through the highly desirable vendors Brian Gavin or Whiteflash in J or even K color in a round brilliant shape should camouflage warmth.
My J color stone is on the low end of “near colorless” with medium blue fluorescence set in a platinum bezel. It was purchased long before I knew about PriceScope and the amazing resources learned from this site. I am the only one that sees a little warmth at certain angles. To me, cut is everything.

 

[ssak22]

Thanks all! Seems that the consensus is to prioritize cut over color/clarity. I definitely see the value in buying from a site like Whiteflash where the stone has been pre-vetted and certified. One of the sales reps already sent me photos of two K color "a cut above" branded diamonds and they do look remarkably white.

However, I can't help but wonder if I would be paying a premium for the marketing/branding behind these preferred vendors. With Whiteflash specifically, I'm not interested in the upgrade program so that part of their value is a bit lost on me.

I'm trying to research the best angles/dimensions for round diamonds. I found the one linked below, which seems to fit into this "super ideal" range that I found.

https://www.rarecarat.com/diamond/1...ond?ref=back&ts=Search&cp=1&ndp=12395.54&cs=0

Anyone willing to share opinions on this one? I like that it is a higher color and clarity than what I have seen on sites like Whiteflash for the same price, but maybe the cut isn't quite as good.

 

[musicloveranthony]

Thanks all! Seems that the consensus is to prioritize cut over color/clarity. I definitely see the value in buying from a site like Whiteflash where the stone has been pre-vetted and certified. One of the sales reps already sent me photos of two K color "a cut above" branded diamonds and they do look remarkably white.

However, I can't help but wonder if I would be paying a premium for the marketing/branding behind these preferred vendors. With Whiteflash specifically, I'm not interested in the upgrade program so that part of their value is a bit lost on me.

I'm trying to research the best angles/dimensions for round diamonds. I found the one linked below, which seems to fit into this "super ideal" range that I found.

https://www.rarecarat.com/diamond/1...ond?ref=back&ts=Search&cp=1&ndp=12395.54&cs=0

Anyone willing to share opinions on this one? I like that it is a higher color and clarity than what I have seen on sites like Whiteflash for the same price, but maybe the cut isn't quite as good.

THat's better cut and it does look like it could be a good stone. It is less than super-ideal, though. One of the differences with stones from other vendors is they don't usually provide the imaging the branded vendors do; sometimes (maybe often) that's because their stones don't hold up to that level of scrutiny

I don't think you'll get a lot of unbiased feedback regarding the branded vendors. I do tend to look elsewhere for price comparison since I also haven't/don't plan to upgrade any diamond i've purchased. They genuinely do have high standards for the kind of diamonds they sell, though. I would never take that from them. Their customer service is also very responsive. Also (not always, but sometimes), the cut genuinely can be $1,000 better. I know that probably sounds crazy but I sincerely mean it.

 

[ssak22]

Yep, I'm genuinely torn. I'm sure the branded vendors offer great service and quality, just trying to decide if it's the best option for me.

And yeah, I found additional photos of that same stone on James Allen and something looks off with the visual symmetry.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.71-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-17322533

 

[musicloveranthony]

Yep, I'm genuinely torn. I'm sure the branded vendors offer great service and quality, just trying to decide if it's the best option for me.

And yeah, I found additional photos of that same stone on James Allen and something looks off with the visual symmetry.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-17322533

Oh yeah - that's not great in their photo and video. I can see some areas under the table that would be dead/dark when the stone is moving. If I were spending that much money I'd rather get a smaller stone or a lower colored stone with a better cut. A well cut stone will ALWAYS catch more eyes and catch more light

Only you can decide what matters most to you, though

 

[lovedogs]

Yep, I'm genuinely torn. I'm sure the branded vendors offer great service and quality, just trying to decide if it's the best option for me.

And yeah, I found additional photos of that same stone on James Allen and something looks off with the visual symmetry.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-17322533

This isnt comparable to WF or the other branded super ideal cuts. It isnt close to as well cut.

 

[lovedogs]

Ohhh Brian Gavin has this one. It also looks amazing! Just another one to compare to https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...roducts/1-61-k-vs2brian-gavin-signature-round

This is gorgeous

 

[ssak22]

This isnt comparable to WF or the other branded super ideal cuts. It isnt close to as well cut.

Yeah I agree, especially looking at the JA photos it doesn't look as nice as the ones that musicloveranthony linked. I'm still unsure though of what to look for to identify the best cuts. The one I selected had a crown angle of 34.5, pavilion angle of 40.8, table of 58, and depth of 61.2. These fall into the "member recommended proportions" from https://www.pricescope.com/education/diamond-cut/diamond-proportions. Can you help me understand what specifically is wrong with this cut? If I hadn't seen the unflattering JA photos, I probably would've thought it was a good option based on those proportions

 

[musicloveranthony]

Yeah I agree, especially looking at the JA photos it doesn't look as nice as the ones that musicloveranthony linked. I'm still unsure though of what to look for to identify the best cuts. The one I selected had a crown angle of 34.5, pavilion angle of 40.8, table of 58, and depth of 61.2. These fall into the "member recommended proportions" from https://www.pricescope.com/education/diamond-cut/diamond-proportions. Can you help me understand what specifically is wrong with this cut? If I hadn't seen the unflattering JA photos, I probably would've thought it was a good option based on those proportions

It's a little hard to explain without pictures. So I'm going to attach a couple links with some photos. It's one of those weird "you know it when you see it" types of things. It's all about optical symmetry

The Ultimate Guide to Hearts And Arrows Diamonds

Find out what hearts and arrows diamonds are and why they have better brilliance. We also reveal the things to look out for and the best places to buy.

beyond4cs.com

How Hearts and Arrows Diamonds are Graded | Whiteflash

Hearts and arrows diamond grading is key to understanding the level of a quality craftsmanship and light performance. Learn about this here.

www.whiteflash.com

 

[TXwidow]

that last one also has a notation 'clouds are not shown' and either the stone must have been slightly tilted or something because the arrows are not looking good to me in that picture (your first stone was also too deep-don't remember if anyone mentioned that)

 

[lovedogs]

It's a little hard to explain without pictures. So I'm going to attach a couple links with some photos. It's one of those weird "you know it when you see it" types of things. It's all about optical symmetry

The Ultimate Guide to Hearts And Arrows Diamonds

Find out what hearts and arrows diamonds are and why they have better brilliance. We also reveal the things to look out for and the best places to buy.

beyond4cs.com

How Hearts and Arrows Diamonds are Graded | Whiteflash

Hearts and arrows diamond grading is key to understanding the level of a quality craftsmanship and light performance. Learn about this here.

www.whiteflash.com

This. The problem is that you can't pick a stone by the numbers alone. There is so much rounding and averaging that numbers alone don't tell the whole story. Without knowing exactly what to look for with your eyes, numbers are only part of the necessary info, which is why so many people recommend using true super ideal vendors. The stones from them are guaranteed to be ideal, so there's no guesswork.

 

[ssak22]

It's a little hard to explain without pictures. So I'm going to attach a couple links with some photos. It's one of those weird "you know it when you see it" types of things. It's all about optical symmetry

The Ultimate Guide to Hearts And Arrows Diamonds

Find out what hearts and arrows diamonds are and why they have better brilliance. We also reveal the things to look out for and the best places to buy.

beyond4cs.com

How Hearts and Arrows Diamonds are Graded | Whiteflash

Hearts and arrows diamond grading is key to understanding the level of a quality craftsmanship and light performance. Learn about this here.

www.whiteflash.com

Thank you! The visual guide showing the hearts & arrows pattern is very helpful

 

[ssak22]

that last one also has a notation 'clouds are not shown' and either the stone must have been slightly tilted or something because the arrows are not looking good to me in that picture (your first stone was also too deep-don't remember if anyone mentioned that)

Would you consider the "clouds are not shown" comment to be a red flag on VS1? I've read some people who think clouds aren't really a big issue until you get into the SI range, or if the comments says "clarity is based on clouds not shown." Maybe it comes down to what it looks like in person

And thanks! Yep, I see that the depth is a little high now

 

[lovedogs]

Would you consider the "clouds are not shown" comment to be a red flag on VS1? I've read some people who think clouds aren't really a big issue until you get into the SI range, or if the comments says "clarity is based on clouds not shown." Maybe it comes down to what it looks like in person

And thanks! Yep, I see that the depth is a little high now

"clouds are not shown" is different than "clarity is based on clouds not shown". The latter is a huge red flag for me.

 

[sledge]

"clouds are not shown" is different than "clarity is based on clouds not shown". The latter is a huge red flag for me.

Agree. The note "clarity is based on clouds not shown" is a reject for me. Too many MRB's without that potential headache to make it worth the risk IMO. As Karl says, there are no free lunches in diamonds. You pay for what you get.

Clouds not shown may be a problem but often it's okay. It depends on other factors. I'd worry less in a VS1 than SI1 for instance. Also, if clouds was the grade setting inclusion and it had medium+ levels of fluor then I'd be concerned it may be hazy or lazy. So it really depends on the "context" of other variables rather or not I don't like it.

 

[sledge]

One more option to add to the mix. It's a little over your initial budget but gives you the size, color & clarity in a super ideal.

BGD Blue 1.73 I/VS2 @ $14,113 wire

1.73 I VS2 Blue Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 1.737 carat I VS2 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Signature 'Blue' round diamond with fluorescence. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

One of the only super ideal vendors to offer H&A stones with medium+ levels of blue fluorescence. This stone has strong blue and like all BGD Blue stones, it has been vetted to ensure there are no ill effects associated with the fluor. If you haven't researched much or are aware, fluor gets "excited" when exposed to a certain UV lighting and emits a blue glow. When purchasing stones in lower colors, this can be advantageous as most color is a yellow undertone. Blue + yellow = whitening effect. How much whitening depends on several factors including level of the fluor and strength/proximity of the UV lighting. It should never be substituted for color, but may in select environments you may see a slight improvement. It won't be constant, but rather when exposed to the UV lighting.

 

[sledge]

However, I can't help but wonder if I would be paying a premium for the marketing/branding behind these preferred vendors. With Whiteflash specifically, I'm not interested in the upgrade program so that part of their value is a bit lost on me.

There may be some costs added for trade programs, but I suspect most vendors these days have some costs added for those. Even if they are inferior programs compared to most H&A vendors suggested in this thread.

The real cost difference starts with the diamond rough. Short story is that when a diamond is cut for maximum beauty then more of the rough has to be wasted. Below is a graphical representation of how it works.

Additionally it simply takes more time to craft a stone to H&A precision. More labor and equipment time equals increased cost.

So even if the H&A vendor marks up their stones at the same percentage as the Average Joe vendor, there cost to the consumer is legitimately higher and they aren't simply "price gouging".

A quick example using fictional numbers:

Average Joe:
$100 rough + $100 labor + equipment = $200 cost x 10% profit = $220 total for 0.50 carat stone

H&A Vendor:
$100 rough + $150 labor + equipment = $350 cost x 10% profit = $385 total for 0.40 carat stone

The consumer simply sees a larger stone for less dollars. And under high powered jeweler lighting maybe Average Joe's stone looks great. But when it's not in optimal conditions it barely sparkles and in fact looks a little dark and smaller. And when compared to the 0.40 stone in optimal lighting it may actually look the same size or smaller than the 0.40 H&A stone that is "smaller" because Average Joe's 0.50ct stone has additional weight hidden in the vertical plane which not only effects cut quality but cheats the buyer into thinking they got a larger stone for less money but in reality they didn't.

Obviously it's not always this clear & simple, but it's a simplified example meant to explain how some of the price difference you see isn't just "price gouging" as some buyers believe.

 

[AprilBaby]

I own a Rarecaret diamond but that WF K is killer!