Is this diamond 45% below wholesale?

[blackball]

I got the following diamond at a pretty good price. Can any confirm a fair price?

Weight: 1.70 CT
Shape & Cut: Round Brilliant

Measurements: 7.69 -7.64 x4.71mm

Depth: 61.40%

Table: 58%

Crown: 12.90%

Pavilion: 44.50%

Girdle: Very thin to sl. thick faceted

Culet: none

Finish/Polish: Very good

Finish/Symmetry: Good

Clarity Grade: SI2

Color Grade: F

Fluorescence: None

Certification: EGL, 5/21/03, Los Angeles

Certificate: US 73837403D

 

[Mara]

Well I found this stone on Pscope by putting in it's specs and it ranges from $6200-6400 so I hope you got it for less than $6400.

It got a 3.7 on the HCA with VG G G VG--so not quite the best cut, but I am sure it is beautiful!

Did you make sure it was eye-clean?? SI2's are not guaranteed eye-clean. Also EGL can sometimes be lenient on it's grading..so make sure this is an SI2 and not an SI3 or I1. Get a 2nd opinion from an independent appraiser!

The SI2 grading, EGL cert and the cut are most likely why this stone prices out so excellently. Could be a good deal. Find out from the appraiser!

Pictures!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Sounds like a great deal, and the EGL-LA lab is a good lab.

The only way it wouldn't be such a good deal is if it's an overgraded I1, but the chances of that aren't likely with the LA cert. If they had a question about the SI2 grade, they always could have resorted to their SI3 grade, but they didn't. Even as an SI3 it still would be a good price.

Congratulations.

As always, I recommend you have it double checked by an independent appraiser to make sure that SI2 grade holds strong.

 

[blackball]

Thanks for your replies, all.

I paid just over $6k, and my diamond has no visible inclusions to the eye (to the loope, a few carbon marks, which will be covered by the platinum 6-prong setting). Overall, very happy and the recommended seller, who came my way from a friend.

I felt the time spent discussing the diamond, the many EGL and appraisal faxes that were sent, and the effort to get it to me in time for an engagement (next week!) was impressive. I even sent him the Pscope prices today that Mara presented and he said two things: that the crown and pavilion %s were not listed on those online diamond brokerages, and that their restock charges, which I assume they would apply, would make it a process of buying 5 diamonds to get 1, a serious waste of precious time and resources.

So, after reading many of the discussion forums here, especially those on Tiffany versus onerous/online value, I think I did pretty darn well.

When I typed in the certificate # on the EGL-USA website, the diamond's appraisal was listed at $15,490, which knocked my socks off, too. Is it worth it to get the diamond appraised for $75? I'm not sure, I've just commissioned a custom vintage setting, albeit with a 6-prong instead of 4-, for $800, so I came in at ~$7k for a FS12 1.70 ct.

Now, to insure or not to insure?

Enjoy the photo.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

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Now, to insure or not to insure?
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Insuring is relatively inexpensive (probably $150-$200 a year in your case), and takes all the worry out of it.

In that case you'll need an appraisal anyway, so there's no better time to get a second opinion than at this point-of-purchase. You can probably make a deal with the appraiser to add on the setting when it's completed for a minimal additional charge.

 

[blackball]

Interesting, Richard.

The stone came with the EGL certificate and an independent UGS appraisal for $15,490.

Any suggestions on insurance co's that specialize in international protection?

I'll ask the setting guy to give me an appraisal, too, and see if the insurance will accept -- if it's worthwhile...

 

[Mara]

EGL appraisals are grossly overinflated..for retail purposes. I have heard it said (and now I tend to agree whereas at first I didn't) that the stone is worth what you paid for it and that is what you should appraise it for. Why? Because unless it was a 'once in a lifetime deal' (and what are those anyway?), that is the price you can get a replacement stone and ring for. What you paid. Plus most insurance companies allow for inflation over the years, and they recommend getting it re appraised every 5 or 10 years or so in case the market really has changed that much...so that your amount always stays current. IMO insuring this ring for $15k or similar just costs you more $$ out the door for a ring you can replace for around $7k if something happened to it. You would be doubling your insurance costs on a slim chance that one day you'd lose the ring. My two cents but the difference could be something like $100 a year depending on who you insure with...it's not alot of money but over the years it will add up.

My two cents are...get it indepdently appraised to confirm everything you already know, and then get it insured for slightly over what you paid, or if the independent appraisal comes back say around $10, you may feel more comfortable with that value. But $15k is ridiculously high--retail pricing.

Also, the stone that I posted results on IS your stone. It was part of a virtual inventory snapshot-- that online vendors have and your vendor had too. The crown and pav % may not have been listed (btw angles are MUCH better and more accurate, not %s...) but the jeweler you have was not doing you any extra favors by just showing you what was on your EGL cert (the cert has the %'s on there). All you had to do was email one of the online vendors who carry the stone and ask for the #'s off the EGL cert. Not too much more trouble. Plus I don't agree with the 5 to 1 comparison...he just wanted to make himself look better to you.

In any case--you got the stone for slightly over $6k which sounds like the range it was going for online anyway, and you saw the stone in person--which many people think is very important. So your bases are covered in this case! Get that independent appraisal within your return policy window (just in case), and then enjoy your new stone!

BTW that setting is lovely!! It looks very similar to a few Mark Morrell pieces floating around the forum--is it MWM and/or did you see those pix? I love the tapered pave on the sides. Beautiful!

Congrats!

 

[hoorray]

I agree with Mara. Insurance is cheap "sleep at night" comfort. Especially for the newly engaged, who like to wear their ring everywhere, putting it in more peril. But insuring it for 2x the replacement cost only costs you $$. Most insurance companies retain the right to replace or refund at their choice. If they can replace for half the cost of the refund value, you can bet they will, so that extra insurance value you are paying for is only costing you $$ in insurance premimums.


BTW....Beautiful ring!

 

[oldminer]

That appraisal may be "independent" in some legal sense of the word, but that firm is a part of EGL... The number is WAY inflated. While there may be no legal issue, it surely made you believe in Santa Claus one more time. There is no way to get the kind of deal you think you made. The price paid is a low one, but not far off of what nearly all competitive sellers charge for a similar stone. A less inflated appraisal would not have made you feel so good, but it would have been better so you would not waste money on over-insuring your diamond.

Over-insuring a piece of jewelry is a waste of money, plain and simple.

 

[blackball]

Mara et al,

Thanks for your comments. I'm getting the appraisal this week right after the setting is cast. The engagement is coming up on Friday...

At this point, while still firmly believing in St. Nick, I feel pretty solid on the stone. My seller said he worked directly with a DeBeers' cutter (in Phoenix?), and although everyone has a valid point about online sellers, EGL-partnered appraisers, and the price of an 1.70FSI2 online, I can't help feeling I did better than going the retail route.

Each of the retailers I mentioned the stone price to said "it's too good to be true," "that diamond is 45% below retail," and "who sold it to you?". One retailer stated the above, incredulously, then five minutes later, emailed me a 1.75FSI2 EGL for $500 more, with all the same ingredients.

After Mara's first reply, re the price check online, I tried to find better: FSI1 or FVS2, but the price started to jump out of my range.

My basic assumption is diamond-buying is like auto-buying; you hope you don't get taken, and you commonly do better going private (or in some cases, online). Where are the "fleet" diamond brokers...?

As for the setting, again, that's the model I'm having reproduced, albeit with a 6-prong. I found the setting at an estate store in the LA Diamond District with 6 x .04 side diamonds. It's a 1930s European cut. The estate retailer wanted close to $8k for a 1.3IVS2 that was attractive, albeit approaching yellow.

All in all, I do wish I had come across Pscope earlier in the process, but I believe I found apples-to-apples on my stone and not the wax version.

Now to come up with the extraordinary proposal....