It''s official; we''re doing it all backwards (a looooong vent/rant!)

[cherry_vanilla]

My boyfriend and I are sort of long distance this summer while I’m at an internship, so we see each other every other weekend just about. I was home this past weekend, and we had to go and get a gift for his cousin’s wedding (you all know how that goes, you don’t count as family enough to get invited despite dating for nearly twice as long as the bride and groom have

) As we’re waiting for them to gift wrap it, it’s by the registry counter and he picks up one of the magazines of area reception places to SERIOUSLY look through it. And yes, there was one location that would be super spiffy to have it at but as it stands we’re not getting married until January ’10 so even despite living in a crazy area for all things wedding, we’re still quite a ways from having to think about any of this. As soon as we walk in the door at my house, he’s so excited he’s found the perfect reception place he can’t wait to tell my mom and sister. Seriously.

I felt so embarrassed because well, we’re not engaged. Putting the cart before the horse is one thing, this is planning to run a delivery service before the horse is even born to me.

Then yesterday before I have to leave and go back, I’m a little sad because I have a nice long drive ahead of me that evening as he’s at said wedding, and next weekend while we’ll be “together” we’re volunteer staff at a registration booth that weekend and won’t get much if any time alone at all. So we’re flipping through the channels, and he sees a preview for Bridezillas and thinks it would be totally awesome to watch. I told him I just didn’t think I could stomach it.

I guess I should feel lucky that I have a boyfriend that’s so excited about all of this, far more into planning than I am even… I just wish it could wait until we’re actually engaged so I don’t feel like some sort of poser, or delusional girl planning her fairytale wedding with the insert-groom-here mindset. It boggles the mind how he’s so open about wedding planning and everything 2.5 years out, and I just feel so ashamed to as much as mention we’re thinking about it to anyone, even to our friends when he IS telling them all about what our wedding''s going to be like and our future apartment and all that jazz. I do think some of this has to due with my age, since I’m at the age where people go through their college “starter engagements” (just last night I just had ANOTHER friend of mine break up with her fiancée, yet another one where they got together after me and my boyfriend did and ended the engagement before we got to that point) so it’s bad enough it’s hard to be really taken seriously when you are engaged because the turnover rate is so high – I myself admit I’m really skeptical of most engagements among my peers and those in my age group because I’ve seen so many fissile out, doubly so if they didn’t even hit the 1 or 2 year mark of dating at that point - I feel like I have no right to be planning of this yet, it’s almost hypocritical of me. That and our potential wedding date is so far off, so it feels so abstract and intangible timeline-wise in addition to the whole not actually being engaged business.

Before anyone mentions it (this is more of a rant than asking for advice) I did bring it up with my boyfriend, how it just doesn’t feel right to be planning all this before we’re engaged because it feels like I’m a silly girl living in a fantasy land, and he’s just like “it’s different for us, because I actually want to do this too.”

I don’t know why I’m so hung up on the whole “official” engagement thing, my immediate family already considers us engaged, he’s broken the news to his that this is what’s happening, but I know he won’t consider it official until he does the whole tradition diamond ring proposal shebang, which he said is going to be sometime during the first half of 2008. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact it’s not as much a matter of waiting for one or both of us to “feel ready” as much as waiting for the calendar to cooperate

Logically I know we didn’t want to be engaged for more than 2 years, that Jan ’10 is the first chance we can realistically do it to ensure we’ll both be employed and settled wherever I’d be going to grad school. It’s not even as much as we “deserve” to be engaged next in our circle of friends or anything (though honestly I will be surprised if we aren’t even though it’s not going to happen for another 6-12 months) or I’m upset that “our turn” keeps getting passed over or anything. It’s more like, my heart doesn’t agree with the timeline my brain set up to make sure our life is completely on track before getting married. Or something like that.

He’s drunk proposed twice so far in the last few months, and I joked that I was going to keep a tally of how many drunk ones I’ll get before the real one shows up. I’m afraid that number’s going to be quite high, which I''m not sure is a good or a bad sign

Man it sure feels good to be getting all of this out. I know part of the problem is we are long distance until August, so I don’t want to “ruin” what little time we have together by getting bogged down in this mess for too long (and trying to talk about it over the phone or online? Misunderstandings, ahoy!) and I’d rather just enjoy the weekends we do get together. Now I just hold it in, which I know isn’t good but I tell myself it’s just for another month, I can survive another month (especially with the help of this board as a venting spot!) Once I’m back he originally planned on checking out stores for a ring and get an idea how low we can go carat size, maybe that too will help cement the idea in my mind that I’m NOT just living out a Barbie fantasy wedding by planning now.


I think everyone that made it to the end deserves an e-cupcake for getting through that giant brick wall of a post

 

[princesss]

Date: 7/2/2007 3:49:01 PM
Author:cherry_vanilla
It’s more like, my heart doesn’t agree with the timeline my brain set up to make sure our life is completely on track before getting married. Or something like that.

It''s funny, I hit that point yesterday with moving in together. Logically, I made the choice that after graduation (so, a year from now) I need to live on my own for a year or two so that I can prove to myself that I can do it. That way when we start getting REALLY serious, I have no doubt that I''m doing it because I want to, not because I don''t know how to do anything else.

And yet, all I could think of last night was how nice it''d be to come home after work and have him around and make dinner together and snuggle. Stupid brain/heart conflicts.

So yeah, no advice...just lots of commiseration.

BTW the planning the delivery service before the horse is born line cracked me up...the girl in the cubicle next to me gave me the weirdest look. I guess I deserved it. I did kinda snort....

 

[monarch64]

CV, I think you''re having totally rational thoughts about the whole thing. And thank you for the e-cupcake!

You''re a very patient LIW, I think if I were in your shoes I''d tell him I didn''t want to hear another word about wedding planning until I had a ring on my finger!

I have to admire you for containing yourself as much as you have. I don''t think you should feel bad for exploring some venue ideas at this point, though. If you and he are so sure you''re getting engaged at some point next year then why not establish at least what you''re looking for in a venue and daydream about it a bit? It might save you a bit of stress during the planning process anyway, you''ll already have a good idea of what sort of place you want to host your reception in, and you''ll be a little more organized when you actually visit sites.

Hopefully when you guys are back together physically, you can start checking out rings...August isn''t too far off at all.

 

[cherry_vanilla]

Heh, I thought I had updated this already, I guess I forgot!

Anyway, things have just been so blah lately in this department. For the past two weeks (!!) one of the other guys in the program has had his girlfriend over at the house we're all staying at. Now, she came from halfway across the country so it'd be silly to just be over for a weekend, but 2 weeks and counting? The other guys think it's weird as do I, and it just keeps reminded me how infrequently I'm seeing my boyfriend this summer.

And then earlier this week I noticed a gigantic ring on her finger

Well not gigantic by PS standards, but by checking out SMTR I have to guess something like .75-1ct, which seems to be alot for college students assuming it's not CZ or something. That just made it sting even more. (Then again, if that is an engagement ring why is he always introducing her as "girlfriend?" One hell of a promise ring if they're not engaged.)

So here I am, disgustingly jealous because I have a constant reminder that I might not be seeing my boyfriend at all until the program ends in 4 weeks and that we're still not engaged yet and I hate myself for it. Like I mentioned earlier, this isn't something I want to bring up to him over the phone so I've just been keeping it in and hoping it'll go away. And especially not now since my boyfriend is having work woes and probably putting in his 2 week notices today or next week. The last thing I want to do is inadvertantly make him feel bad that he can't "do it right" anytime soon, he already knows that I'm not going to force or guilt him into it, but I'm not sure how to tell him I don't like the idea of waiting around at least another year (he said first half '08, which we all know by guy standards that means 11:59pm on June 30th, but with all these job issues I bet it's going to get bumped back too) even though I know logically I'm just being dumb.

 

[neatfreak]

Cherry, you''re young right? You have PLENTY of time and just need to take a deep breath and remember that you have the man of your dreams already and a ring won''t change that.

MANY MANY of these young girls you see who are 20 or 21 and are engaged will break their engagements or get divorced within a few years of being married. It sounds like you and your guy have a very strong relationship and THAT will last you so much longer than having a piece of metal and rock to stare at.

Now I do realize we''re on a diamond board here...but if it''s really the engagement and NOT the rock that you care about, couldn''t be propose with a placeholder ring now and then down the line when you can afford it you can get the ring you want? It worries me a bit that you are so focused on what others have and the RING RING RING. If it''s the engagement that you want there are plenty of ways to work around not being able to afford the ring you want right away. If it''s the ring that you want, you might want to think about the priorities.

Just take a deep breath and try and focus on nurturing your relationship. Too much stressing on your part will stress him out about the engagement, and that is NEVER a good situation.

It''ll happen when the time is right for you guys!!!!

 

[cherry_vanilla]

Date: 7/13/2007 1:10:49 PM
Author: neatfreak

Now I do realize we''re on a diamond board here...but if it''s really the engagement and NOT the rock that you care about, couldn''t be propose with a placeholder ring now and then down the line when you can afford it you can get the ring you want?

That''s the problem, I''m fine with that but HE''S the one who isn''t.. at least last time we discussed this, when he was up visiting about a month or so ago he was stuck on "I can''t propose any time soon because I won''t be able to afford a ring," that he wants to do this "properly." I guess it''s some sort of guy macho pride thing, where he feels he has to get me something "I deserve" or he''ll be seen as cheap or not devoted enough because he didn''t get me anything, does that make sense? Also, the size range we''re discussing is sidestone territory for most, .2ish to .3ish, so it''s not like he''s in a pickle because I want some gigantic 2 ct Ring Pop looking thing

(clearly, I am on this site primarily for the LIW board and not any of the diamond ones!)

I honestly don''t even really care about a ring too much (other than seeing them on others is an easy reminder of how I feel like I can''t go "public" despite already starting to plan because he has yet to propose while sober

) since I already have a promise ring that people mistake as an engagement ring despite being not diamond or a solitaire or anything, so it''d be easy to just say "yes it is my engagement ring." In fact, I know my mom is wondering why we don''t already consider ourselves engaged, since we basically are in every sense beyond getting a flashy ring along with a certain combination of four words.

The problem to that is, he''s kind of traditional like that so I know it would bother him to pull the rug from under him like that, so we don''t consider ourselves engaged yet. Once I get back and we aren''t limited to phone calls and emails anymore, I guess that''s when we need to figure out what sort of compromise we can come up with. I just have to keep it all in until then.

 

[Aim_Turbo]

I hear you Cherry loud and clear!!! My BF wants to do the proposal right so he''s saving like mad to buy me a ring. He even argued with me when my mom gave us her diamond from her engagement ring saying it''s not big enough which is crazy (it''s .25) but i put my foot down and said that i really wanted it for sentimental reasons. Guys have this thing about the diamond size, they think they''re less of a man if they give their girl something smaller then a meteorite to sit looking silly on her hand. My boy is exactly the same way, he has no money either but he insists on doing this right. I really dont'' care about the size of the rock or how many diamonds are involved i care that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, it''s him who wants the sparkly to be perfect. So I''m trying to be patient just like you, our day will come and we will wonder why we were so worked up over the waiting haha!!

I have my fingers and toes crossed for both of us!!

Aim

 

[neatfreak]

Aww Cherry, well it certainly sounds like you have your head on straight.

I would talk to him about your feelings and tell him that it''s more important for him to propose to you officially than it is to have the ring along with it. Try and get him to see your side of things and stress how important it is for you to be engaged before starting to plan.

Hopefully he''ll come around soon. We''re all rooting for you!

 

[Harleigh]

Hi Cherry,

I wish you luck...I hope you can hold out until August when you can see each other more.

Hang in there and know we''re all rooting for you!

 

[Cehrabehra]

why do you have to wait to get engaged? Seriously - if you''re ready now, why not do it now? I can''t think of ONE reason to hold off. Not one. You don''t need a ring, and even if you feel you must have one you can get another ring later if you really want to. What is this calendar you speak of that dictates to you how to live your life???

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/13/2007 2:24:46 PM
Author: cherry_vanilla

Date: 7/13/2007 1:10:49 PM
Author: neatfreak

Now I do realize we''re on a diamond board here...but if it''s really the engagement and NOT the rock that you care about, couldn''t be propose with a placeholder ring now and then down the line when you can afford it you can get the ring you want?

That''s the problem, I''m fine with that but HE''S the one who isn''t.. at least last time we discussed this, when he was up visiting about a month or so ago he was stuck on ''I can''t propose any time soon because I won''t be able to afford a ring,'' that he wants to do this ''properly.'' I guess it''s some sort of guy macho pride thing, where he feels he has to get me something ''I deserve'' or he''ll be seen as cheap or not devoted enough because he didn''t get me anything, does that make sense? Also, the size range we''re discussing is sidestone territory for most, .2ish to .3ish, so it''s not like he''s in a pickle because I want some gigantic 2 ct Ring Pop looking thing

(clearly, I am on this site primarily for the LIW board and not any of the diamond ones!)

I honestly don''t even really care about a ring too much (other than seeing them on others is an easy reminder of how I feel like I can''t go ''public'' despite already starting to plan because he has yet to propose while sober

) since I already have a promise ring that people mistake as an engagement ring despite being not diamond or a solitaire or anything, so it''d be easy to just say ''yes it is my engagement ring.'' In fact, I know my mom is wondering why we don''t already consider ourselves engaged, since we basically are in every sense beyond getting a flashy ring along with a certain combination of four words.

The problem to that is, he''s kind of traditional like that so I know it would bother him to pull the rug from under him like that, so we don''t consider ourselves engaged yet. Once I get back and we aren''t limited to phone calls and emails anymore, I guess that''s when we need to figure out what sort of compromise we can come up with. I just have to keep it all in until then.

oh bah - ring shming..... unnecessary! I waited 15 years to get a diamond and after getting it realized I never needed it. I do kinda wish he''d gotten a little tiny chip of something but that wasn''t needed either. I dunno, part of me thinks well what''s the hurry, if you''re not marrying then by all means just relax and enjoy this... another part of me thinks it is nuts to be ready and yet allow something as materialistic as not having a diamond stand in the way.

 

[misysu2]

I know how it is too! My boyfriend didn''t have much money but said he wanted to get me the diamond "I deserved." I was happy to look into getting a sapphire or other colored stone instead of a diamond-- the diamond wasn''t a ring priority to me-- having a unique one for my style was-- but he said he wouldn''t buy me anything that didn''t have a diamond. And THEN i tried to keep costs down by looking at smaller stones for the setting I chose, but he wouldn''t buy me those either-- he actually got out a ruler and outlined the diamond dimensions and laid it against my hand! He "had" to find one that looked appropriate size-wise for my fingers.

I''m not sure from where this behavior stems, but it is strange. But I''d say don''t argue- just got with it! It''s his decision and he obviously feels comfortable this way.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I dated my husband in college, starting when I was 18. I remember being in college and thinking maybe we'll get engaged the summer before senior year . . . maybe we'll get engaged right after I graduate . . . We got engaged two years after graduating. By then we had both lived on our own and grown up a little and were totally ready to get married, so we planned our wedding for as soon as we thought was possible to plan the wedding that we wanted, 8 months later.

So I can relate. I also watched two of DH's brothers marry people they had met AFTER DH and I started dating. Neither of them dated more than a year before getting engaged and DH and I dated for over five! And some people I knew (not close friends though) got married in college or right out of it. One of them was supposed to be my friend but I figured out pretty quickly when DH and I were getting to know each other that she actually liked DH and was just giving me advice about him to keep tabs on him. A funny story we have from parent weekend my first year (he was two years ahead) is that she lined up her gazillions of brothers and sisters and parents at church and made DH meet everybody. Meanwhile, DH was trying to catch my eye so he could meet my parents but I thought he didn't like me and was pretending not to notice him.

Anyway, this girl got married right out of college then immediately adopted some kids who were like 8 and 12 years old (she was only 22 or 23 at the time). I used to joke with DH that that could have been his life! Hey, by now the oldest one would be out of the house so maybe she was on to something!

Anyway, I'm not sure what to tell you. Part of me wants to tell you to slow down and let it come when it will come. I had a promise ring too, and people sometimes thought I was engaged, which was annoying but kind of the point too, right? I'm so glad we waited until we were 24.5 and 26 to get married rather than 22 and 23 or something like that. I still feel like I got married young!

But part of me knows what it's like to be sure about your future with someone (although we did have a period where DH half-heartedly tried to break up with me right after college . . . as he says, it "didn't take"). If you are actually planning this wedding for January of 2010, then there's no shame in being engaged now. Of course, there's no rush either, so if he's looking for the perfect ring and wants to make the perfect engagement, let that happen. As others have pointed out, a lot of the people you know who are getting engaged are making mistakes and will figure it out sooner or later.

I moved from NJ to the South, and the age when people get married is definitely different depending on where you are from. I have only one friend from high school who is married, and I know they sped things up because the bride's father was dying and she wanted him at her wedding. It's like nobody thinks about getting married until 30 where I'm from.

But here in the South it's different. Getting married right out of college (or in college) isn't that unusual. I have a coworker who grew up in a rural area and all of her friends are already married/having children, and she's 25.

So you just need to figure out what is right for the two of you. It's great and sweet that your BF is so excited about planning things already. That's what's important.

P.S. I bet you that your housemate bought his "girlfriend's" ring with a credit card that he can't pay off and that he'll be in debt for a long time to come. So don't envy a girl with a flashy ring that is probably more a reflection of her boyfriend's irresponsible spending habits than his love for her, especially when he can't even bring himself to call her his fiancee.

 

[cherry_vanilla]

Oh man, I''m really bad about updating but it''s a good (and long!) one so I don''t feel so guilty about bumping my own thread from however many weeks ago

Two weeks ago, there was a party at the house (us physics interns are staying at a mostly vacant frat house that has another building next door with 6-7 brothers over the summer instead of the college''s dorms) which of course consisted of lots of alcohol and me being the only girl there. Towards the end of the night (I barely drank, mostly spent the evening playing video games with the other light drinkers in the group!) this lovely conversation came up with those who were still around at 3am (I think it''s pretty clear who is who!)

Hey you and someone should make out.

((wtf?)) No I have a boyfriend.

Well he''s not here so it doesn''t count.

((wtf x2))He''s a sorta boyfriend...

See then it''s TOTALLY ok.

...sorta fiance.

The nuclear option worked as in they stopped bugging me, cause apparently boyfriends don''t mean anything but boy oh boy ENGAGEMENT we can''t mess with that

but then one of the other interns grabbed my hand and said it''s not a diamond ring so it doesn''t count! Oh drunk guys, I''ll never understand but it succeeded in diverting attention away for those 30 seconds. I know they didn''t mean to be a jerk, hell it''s probably because most girls they encounter ARE willing to cheat on their boyfriends like that.

The next day on the phone with my boyfriend I told him I felt bad about it but I had to use the "f-word" to get out of a tight spot, and he was perfectly ok with it! "That''s basically what we are and what that ring''s for, remember?" Needless to say this was a surprise from him, but a good surprise!

He came up to visit this weekend, we went to the mall and movies and when passing a jewelry store and were looking at the loose stones, he turns to me and says "psh we can do better online." With that cue, at dinner I just put out all my cards on the table and everything I was keeping in for the past who knows how long since I didn''t want to be talking about this over the phone or IMs. It really felt good to talk about things, rather than keep them in because we aren''t in the same state right now. And very good to know we''re on the same page on all of this - he said he''s through with having to refer to me as "girlfriend" when that''s really not the case, and the Sunday after I get back we are going to the NYC diamond district to being the search.

While I''m still going to be on the LIW list for quite some time (my guess is he''ll still wait until at or after we pass the 4 year mark) it''s a definite load off my mind knowing we''re in the same place.

phoenixgirl - I know EXACTLY what you mean about how ages and timing is so radically different based on where you live. We''re in North Jersey and no one seems to get married before 30 - but I think it is starting to trickle back down a bit. I guess some of my hesitation comes from that, but then again logically it seems really dumb to base MY Life on what others around me are doing. I shouldn''t have to feel like I have to justify getting married at just shy of if not 24 and him at 27 (isn''t 24 the average marrying age for ladies anyway?) and after 6 years of dating just because I was born and raised in a certain state. I mean, so many of the other guys interning with me from around the country have peers who are engaged or married by the time they finish undergrad and no one really bats an eye or goes on and on about how they''re ruining their lives by getting married at 22, unlike from where I''m from. Of course it''s not for everyone, but it''s not for NO ONE either.

 

[Harleigh]

Yay, Cherry!

I am so glad you got to lay your cards out on the table and find out you are both on the same page!

What a relief for you, and I can''t wait to hear how your shopping goes! Congrats!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I''m glad you gave us an update! And what a smart boyfriend to know what good deals there are online!

Have fun looking at rings in NYC!

Funny that you are from NJ too. You''re right . . . you have to figure out what timing is right for you. I''m glad that we married younger so that we can wait 5 years or so to have children and still be starting while I''m (barely) in my 20''s. I''m glad we''ll have had so much time just being a couple. DH is an extrovert and without him I wouldn''t do nearly as many fun things as I do, so I feel like I''m enjoying my 20''s so much more than I would have as a single person.

Just remember that you can''t please everyone. If you get engaged soon, some people will wonder how you know at 21 what you want to do at 24. If you wait to get engaged until the year before the wedding, people will question your relationship like the drunk guys at the party and you''ll feel like a poser trying to plan it. So just do what both of you want.

 

[Hoping&Waiting]

Date: 7/2/2007 3:49:01 PM
Author:cherry_vanilla
I was home this past weekend, and we had to go and get a gift for his cousin’s wedding (you all know how that goes, you don’t count as family enough to get invited despite dating for nearly twice as long as the bride and groom have

)

Cherry_Vanilla....

Referring to above portion of your post....WHAT IS THAT ABOUT ANYWAY??? I am dealing with the SAME situation! Not necessarily being invited to family members weddings. But not being included in family pictures....because i dont have a ring on my finger?!?!?! My BF''s brothers Fiance is in the pictures...has been around much less time then I have...but somehow qualifies because of a ring?!?! What if we decided never to get married...does that mean im not in the family?? that is my question to my BF''s family!!!

His mom goes as far as saying she loves me...kissing me good bye...but when it comes to introducing me to neighbors or including me in a picture...that is uncharted territory for her and it will not happen until I have a ring...urrrgggg!

Anyway...I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!