J Color H&A SI1??

[kyubi]

Is $13000 a fair price for this rock? I''m not too experienced with diamonds but I have done a lot of reading on this site. I just read a recent post about J colors on Plat settings and lot of the pictures posted looked REALLY clean. Just wanted some opinions on the specs below and if this is a good price? Any help would be super!!

Shape: Round H&A
Carat: 2.035
Color: J
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 61.3
Table: 56
Crown Angle: 34.7
Crown %: 15.3
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Pavilion %: 43.1
Girdle: Medium Faceted
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 8.16-8.20X5.02

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

In the market of hearts & Arrows that is a fair price.

I believe thats a Whiteflash stone, they have great service and return policies.

 

[kyubi]

Do you think I will notice the J color a lot in this stone if this is set in plat, or is it only a matter of me actually viewing the diamond? And yes you are correct, this is a Whiteflash diamond. I am currently in the process of getting a ring made but then I saw the posting about J colors and then I saw this H&A and didn''t know what to do...

The current stone I am working on is a 1.82 VS1 H color GIA cert stone... Now I am just confused...because I really like the H&A but concerned about the color...

Any suggestions or opinions?

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Date: 2/13/2005 3:28:27 PM
Author: kyubi
Do you think I will notice the J color a lot in this stone if this is set in plat, or is it only a matter of me actually viewing the diamond? And yes you are correct, this is a Whiteflash diamond. I am currently in the process of getting a ring made but then I saw the posting about J colors and then I saw this H&A and didn''t know what to do...

The current stone I am working on is a 1.82 VS1 H color GIA cert stone... Now I am just confused...because I really like the H&A but concerned about the color...

Any suggestions or opinions?

Tough Call Kyubi:

If the H vs1 stone your currently interested is not cut as well it might not face up as well as a H&A stone. H is a happy medium between the color grades and the VS1 clarity is a plus in the larger size stone.

Personally if you can get a si-1 eye-clean J stone I think it will face up white, but this is also dependent on cut and ACA cuts em'' tight

I think to hit that 2 Carat mark psychologically a Branded J si-1 stone is a good way to go for the money you are spending. In platinum you might notice a subtle hue looking side on into the stone, but face up it should be a beauty.

 

[valeria101]

I don''t think you would call J "tinted" once you see it. Even if there wasn''t that much else that the particular stones does so well.

Is the H/VS H&A too ?

 

[phoenixgirl]

White Flash has a reputation of being professional and helpful, so if you don''t like the stone, they will work with you.

Walk into Zales or any store like that, and the stones will be K-O color (and I2-I3 clarity for earrings and such . . . ick!). The average joe doesn''t even realize that they''re tinted beyond what people who go to higher end stores or do their homework would buy. My point is that the difference between an H, an I, and a J is so slight that what really matters is the cut. And the cut of this baby will be magnificent. I can''t guarantee that you won''t notice a slight tint (usually more noticeable from the side than looking down at the top of the stone, which is how it will normally be viewed), but I think that J SI1 is a great combination for price and look.

If I were buying a stone today, I would look for I-J SI1-SI2 personally.

 

[Giangi]

Sounds like an awesome stone. A H&A J colored stone will face up very well; our fellow PQcollectibles has a J ACA diamond that''s in the 1-1/4cts range and it sure faces up VERY white! What I would make sure is that the inclusions aren''t noticeable to the naked eye from the top. It''s very likely you could see some reflections of them from the bottom, but it should not be a concern by no means.

 

[Todd07]

Date: 2/13/2005 3:28:27 PM
Author: kyubi
Do you think I will notice the J color a lot in this stone if this is set in plat, or is it only a matter of me actually viewing the diamond?
The current stone I am working on is a 1.82 VS1 H color GIA cert stone..
Now I am just confused...because I really like the H&A but concerned about the color...

Any suggestions or opinions?

We bought a 1.6 J SI1 A Cut Above from WF. It looks stunning in platinum. When right next to a D/E, you see the J is warmer and the D/E looks more cold/icy. It does not look yellow on the hand.

When I bought, I had Brian from WF compare several Js and an H. He recommend the J over the smaller H.

My suggestion is to:
- Have Brian compare a couple stones that interest you while you are on the phone (this J and the 1.8 H?).
- Send the top pick to a local appraiser where you can see it before buying.

There is really no risk in this approach.

What you are seeing on PS probably doesn''t represent the average J at your local B&M. The in-house J''s at the PS vendors are top picks, just do your due dilligence.

 

[kyubi]

Date: 2/13/2005 3:53

3 PM
Author: valeria101
I don''t think you would call J ''tinted'' once you see it. Even if there wasn''t that much else that the particular stones does so well.


Is the H/VS H&A too ?

The stone that I am already working with WF is VG pol and VG sym and it is NOT an H&A.

ARGH!!! Now I''m wondering if I should go with the J SI1 H&A because of its IDEAL cut and polish... its also bigger too...

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/13/2005 5:38:54 PM
Author: kyubi


The stone that I am already working with WF is VG pol and VG sym and it is NOT an H&A.

ARGH!!! Now I'm wondering if I should go with the J SI1 H&A because of its IDEAL cut and polish... its also bigger too...

The polish and symmetry grades are really non-issues... you can't even see them. I wonder how anyone can - even for grading.

Size at least is visible ! Even in a photo, which you could probably obtain from WF. Not sure if they like the practice, but have done it before. IMO, between 1.8 and 2 carats the size difference is not dramatic. It would be esily visible on two diamonds loose and placed side by side, but once set the line gets further blurred. About half a milimeter does make a difference for me (it's all IMO, as usual) less, not quite.

edited to add:
About size differences... you may want to look over this thread (one upgrade from 1.5 to 1.7 or 0.2mm diameter difference deemed "not worth it").

 

[Bagpuss]

Date: 2/13/2005 4:14:52 PM
Author: phoenixgirl
White Flash has a reputation of being professional and helpful, so if you don''t like the stone, they will work with you.

Walk into Zales or any store like that, and the stones will be K-O color (and I2-I3 clarity for earrings and such . . . ick!). The average joe doesn''t even realize that they''re tinted beyond what people who go to higher end stores or do their homework would buy. My point is that the difference between an H, an I, and a J is so slight that what really matters is the cut. And the cut of this baby will be magnificent. I can''t guarantee that you won''t notice a slight tint (usually more noticeable from the side than looking down at the top of the stone, which is how it will normally be viewed), but I think that J SI1 is a great combination for price and look.

If I were buying a stone today, I would look for I-J SI1-SI2 personally.

I agree that the average person doesn''t really see the colour around the J to L level. When I first looked at diamonds, before I knew anything at all, I saw a diamond ring that was supposed to be an I - I couldn''t tell if it was or not. We had it certified and it came back an L. Big reality check for us. After that I went on line, learnt as much as I could about diamonds and looked at as many different colour stones as I could.

I very happily ended up with a 2ct I, but by then I knew what I was looking at and buying and why. No buyers regret.

 

[kyubi]

What to do, what to do...

Well so far from what I have gathered from all the replies, color really isn''t going to be that noticable, and also size isn''t really going to be noticable until it goes past .5 mm. So with all this in mind is the H&A really THAT beautiful or is this just a gimmick to sell the rock for more money. I mean it makes sense and it seems prettier then just a normal stone but does a H&A really reflect that much more light then just a normal..ummm let''s say VG Pol/Sym VS1 rock?

 

[Todd07]

My guess is you are looking at two stones for about the same price from WF. Use Brian to compare the two - he''ll give you an honest opinion on which looks best.

Also, you should compare the idealscope images since they indicate light return and quality of cut. You can post the pics (or links) in this thread for eveyone to comment on (and further confuse your decision

)

 

[diamond island]

I think it is a fair price. I have a J 2.075 SI1 Eigthstar (you can see pictures on the other J color/platinum post)and I definateliy see the yellow tint in the stone when it was unset and next to a H stone. After it was set, I can still see the tint of yellow but less noticable than when it was unset. Against the platium I can see the tint of yellow when I stare at it from the pavillion. Face up, I can not appreciate any yellow no matter how hard I stare at it. I think buying a lower color grade to get a bigger stone was a great decision. Some may say you overpay for brand cuts and some may say you overpay for color. It all comes down to what floats your boat. The only bad diamond is the diamond bought from an uninformed buyer. Of your choices, I would buy the 2 ct J over the H. What is the size of the ring? Remember diamonds shrink over the years.

 

[kyubi]

OK so with Todd''s suggestion, can anyone please make my decision any more difficult by telling me about the two pics. The link below is the H&A and the one attached is the one I got from WF.

 

[kyubi]

Oh yeah...

I also just had my wife just take a look at the 40x images of the two side by side. She like the non-H&A more because she thought it was brighter... but is that just because of the lighting of how the picture is taken? Or is the darkness of the arrows in the H&A going to pull away from the brightness? She really likes the sparkle...

 

[Todd07]

Don't trust comparing two seperate pictures since lighting will be different. the IS image is meant to help differentiate what a regular picture won't show.

The H&A clearly has better symmetry but as the tutorial says, it's light return that really matters
http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_symmetry.asp

To this amature, they both have good light return. Maybe one the professionals can comment on the real impact of the funky symmetry in the second IS image.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Date: 2/13/2005 7

0:11 PM
Author: kyubi
Oh yeah...

I also just had my wife just take a look at the 40x images of the two side by side. She like the non-H&A more because she thought it was brighter... but is that just because of the lighting of how the picture is taken? Or is the darkness of the arrows in the H&A going to pull away from the brightness? She really likes the sparkle...

The first H&A''s image looks good and the 2nd of course doesn''t have the H&A''s optics.

I would say talk to Brian the Cutter and see what he tells you. Because of the symettry in the 1st image the diamond will throw light in a different way that from the H&A''s. I wouldn''t count out either stone. Talk with brian and see what he says.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Ditto''s to what PG said about the color difference between H and J being subtle at best. And that''s color grading with the cutlet up/table down thru the pavillion.

Also, keep in mind that diamonds are reflectors. They will show you what ever color is around them. The sky. The ceiling. Your shirt. The amber glow of the light in the room. So any diamond is gonna be tinted at times simply as a function of your surroundings.

Call and ask to chat with Brian. He will tell you the truth about what he sees. If he says the J faces up better, it does. Brian may even suggest a totally different diamond than the 2 you have considered so far.

WF can also send you a head on shot of the 2 diamonds side by side. I used to have a side by side of a smaller H and a larger J, but I can''t locate it right now. As I recall, the only major difference in the 2 diamonds that was really noticible was the size.

 

[kyubi]

Well then...I must say that I am now THOROUGHLY confused

but at the same time, I am enlightened. I will heed your words and find this Brian of Whiteflash you speak of.

Thanks everyone for your input...and hopefully they haven''t mounted anything yet because I really want to make sure that I get the stone that I want...

Again, thank you all for your input!!!

 

[kyubi]

Oh...and I''ll post the ring after I have decided on the one I''m getting!!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Hi Kyubi. I've followed this thread and think you have received very helpful advice.

FYI... Brian Gavin is in Antwerp and will not be able to look at these for you tomorrow - but I, or someone else on the cut team will be happy to pull them together and compare them with analytical eyes.

Looking at the IdealScope images it appears both diamonds are very beautiful. Whether you want our signature Hearts & Arrows cut is a decision of personal preference.

Since you have asked about comparing ACA to non-ACA I will put forward that the main advantage of an "A Cut Above" is that all aspects, down to the minor facets, have been prescribed by Brian Gavin, who is a 5th generation cutter, to maximize performance through the broadest range of lighting conditions. This means that in direct light, diffuse light or soft lighting (like candlelight) there is harmonious visual balance as a result of specific design. The best testimonials to that effect have come from consumers participating here - you can ask Josh, already participating in this thread, for further comment.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Allright John..

Hi Again Kyubi:

I think it fair to say that the quality of the scintillation in the H&A’s stone is going to be “snappy”. The H&A’s image you show will probably have a bit more contrast in the scintillation. All diamonds return light from the crown and the arrow shafts in the 2nd stone pictured will most likely provide a perception of brilliance which differs from standard Round Brilliants.

The large amount of intensity variation or contrast between light and dark areas across the diamond (the dark areas being the arrow shafts and the lighter areas the space between the shafts) give it an aspect of brilliance that I described earlier as being snappy “bang” “bang” ,being hard or sharp. This will be evident when you rock the stone back and forth viewing the aspect of scintillation.

The way some H&A’s are cut, they provide some of the most intense fire to be observed in a diamond. When viewing the phenomenon of “fire” you will notice a lot of sparks or shards of light present when viewing the fire. Words I can use to describe this affect is a sizzling or lighting off a sparkler. The way these stones are cut I have noticed they have leverage in direct light conditions though dynamic and balanced to be beautiful in both direct light and diffuse lighting conditions.

I think this is the main difference you will see in the H&a’s stone vs. the standard Round Brilliant. I would add that the non-H&A’s idealscope image you post looks good. It has a chaotic symmetry vs. the H&A’s, but should provide strong contrast of a different flavor because of the dark reds and blacks present in the idealscope photo.

Both stones look to be performers though a visual analysis is going to be your best bet. Look at it as buying either a Cadillac or Mercedes-Benz, the H&A’s being the Mercedes because of what they were distinctly cut to produce and the awesome optical symmetry.

Hope this Helps...

 

[kyubi]

So it appears the good people at WF are going to try and work with me on this. Hopefully the diamond hasn''t been set yet. Apparently John the cutter is working offsite and so this other person I have been working with (and she has been AWESOME so far) is going to take a look and see if she can give me a pic of the two stones side by side. Talk about customer service...

I can''t wait to see them...

 

[kyubi]

So I did it!!!

I went with the SI1 J Color H&A stone. I saw the pictures and the H&A looked darker compared to the H VS1 but everyone there assured me that the H&A will be brighter and show more color, also it''s a little bigger too!!

Just want to put a KUDOS to everyone at Whiteflash... You guys are simply the BEST, hands down!!!

I can''t wait for it to come in...

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Congratulations on your 2 carat Rock Kyubi...

Let us know how it looks when you receive it

 

[pqcollectibles]

Eeewww!! Kyubi!! I''d love to see the pic that WF sent you. Care to post it??!!

Can''t wait to see pics of the ring when you get it!! Many Congrats!!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Kyubi,

Thanks for the kind words. Lesley filled me in after you spoke today. I took a look and agree 100% with your decisions. The arrows pattern you are seeing in the J is highly magnified. The patterning and minor facet construction provide wonderful contrast qualities of brilliance in the scintillation when viewed in different lighting conditions.

Congrats on the decision! And please let us know what you think when you receive your diamond.

 

[Patty]

That''s great kyubi!

I can''t wait to see pictures of it.

 

[kyubi]

Date: 2/14/2005 4:54

7 PM
Author: pqcollectibles
Eeewww!! Kyubi!! I''d love to see the pic that WF sent you. Care to post it??!!

Can''t wait to see pics of the ring when you get it!! Many Congrats!!

Eeewww!! That sounds like a bad thing

As if my decision wasn''t hard enough!!!

JK!!! I am throughoughly confindent that I made the right decision and have full confidence in the advice I have received from Whiteflash