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James Allen - no delivery post payment of $60k for diamond.

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Kat01

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Messages
11
Hi all,

I reserved a diamond with James Allen, confirmed and paid over $60k (3ct oval).

I was informed they confirmed with the diamond supplier all is in order and I was given a shipping date.
I received various messages that shipping was happening and everything is on track.

Suddenly after 2 weeks I was informed that the diamond was never available, that their shipping/tracking messages were wrong and that the diamond is not available. At the same time they offered me some very sub-optimal alternatives though (terrible bow ties etc.).

Is this a case of bait and switch? Has it happened to others? Seems so according to the Yelp reviews.

I have questions about their process and trustworthiness. Wouldn't like to see other people go through this. I have some ideas, but would love to get your input.

Best
 
Many of the online distributors list the same stones and drop-ship from overseas. Someone else must have bought that stone and it wasn't removed from other listings before you tried to buy it. It's not intentional bait and switch; not exactly, anyways.
 
Kat01 said:
I understand what you're saying, but they said they CONFIRMED with the supplier before I paid. Plus they gave me various updates ito shipping after I paid and kept saying it was on track.
Click to expand...

They messed up. As Anthony said, they never actually had the diamond in hand, they thought they confirmed with the supplier, but somehow it got sold to someone else in the meantime.
 
That sounds really frustrating, sorry it happened to you.

The "the one" in terms of diamonds can be almost as a circuitous path as finding "the one" special human in our lives. Hang in there, you'll get to the diamond that will knock your socks off eventually. Many of us have long, winding stories about getting to our forever diamond.
 
Many sellers of diamonds, like James Allen, don’t “own” all the diamonds offered for sale on their website.
This is particularly so with larger size/ higher price diamonds.
Obviously whoever actually held the diamond you wanted to purchase had sold it before James Allen’s request came through. James Allen may not have been timely submitting their purchase request, the holder/ owner of the diamond may not have updated their records in a timely manner to reflect the sale, who knows the full story.
It is important to enquire, up front, about the ownership of any diamond you are interested in purchasing. Do they hold the diamond themselves? If not, there is the risk of the diamond already being sold but records not as yet updated or even the price changing because it’s the diamond is in someone else’s hands.
James Allen has made a few mistakes of late leading to understandably upset and disappointed buyers.
 
Unfortunately a diamond that is “available” not really being available is par for the course with vendors who don’t own their own inventory, as precious posters have said.

I don’t know what to tell you about the shipping details you were given. Sounds like there was probably a lot of “a label has been generated” notifications with no actual action - but I have no insight, I’m just guessing.

I hope they were appropriately apologetic for their error. Going so far as to confirm shipments and then backtracking all the way to oopsies-no-diamond is unacceptable. But JA… They used to have their sh*t together, not so much anymore. I ditto the recommendation to get a refund and go elsewhere. It’s not an intentional bait and switch but I sure as heck understand why it feels like it.

Perhaps @jamesallenrings can provide more insight into the “shipping details” you were given.
 
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Doesn't give me a good feeling about JA either. I called yesterday to ask a question about a setting. 13 minutes on hold before they answer. She couldn't answer my question and went to ask someone else so on hold again then I was hung up on so I won't be calling back.
 
Perhaps an honest mistake, but for $60K leaves a bad taste in my mouth especially because they said the diamond had shipped to JA. $60K is a mightly good sale for JA, they should have taken more care of the situation. I would move on. And yes, get your money back. Have them wire it to you like I am sure you had to do for them.
 
It’s NOT a bait and switch. Reliability of delivery is one of the inherent weaknesses of the “virtual inventory” model that most online vendors operate. The merchant is fully dependent on a network of individual suppliers to provide them the correct information about the stones they list, as well as fulfilling the order when it is placed. A lot can go wrong in those exchanges!

While selling stones that you have no investment in allows companies to sell at lower prices, from a consumer standpoint there is significant value in shopping in-house inventories. These companies have put their money in the stones, have vetted them thoroughly, they are not simultaneously offered on dozens of websites, and they can guarantee delivery. Having the diamonds in-house also provides the opportunity for real-time consultation with a gemologist who actually has the diamond in hand, and other services like comparison imaging.

We know all too well the perils of virtual inventory as we also provide this service in addition to our in-house offerings. To reduce issues we are very selective in the diamonds we offer in the virtual category. Consequently we don’t offer the vast numbers of stones others do. But we understand the extreme disappointment that shoppers feel when they shop for months to find the perfect stone, place the order expecting to be thrilled, and then feel the frustration of having to go back to the drawing board.

Especially when it comes to engagement rings, having confidence in the delivery promise is a big value. The fact is, most shoppers do not realize that the diamonds they are looking at have never been seen by the merchant they are dealing with, and may or may not actually be available. Many merchants are less than transparent about their process.
 
Hi all,
Thank you for your input.

I totally understand the fact that somebody else could have bought it, but
1. from when they confirmed I can reserve it till being told it has been sold was 2 weeks. (And according to them they did check that it was available...)
2. And then yes, getting shipping updates if there was no diamond to ship in the first place? (And within one day I was told the diamond had arrived, next thing I was told it hadn't arrived yet, but will still arrive that very day. Only to be told a day later there is no diamond.)

And no, not really apologetic, just sent me an e-mail with some sub-optimal suggestions (with terrible bow ties, except maybe for the more expensive diamond - hence the bait and switch comment).
There is something else I picked up that may explain their behavior - unfortunately don't have clarity on it just yet.
 
Texas Leaguer said:
It’s NOT a bait and switch. Reliability of delivery is one of the inherent weaknesses of the “virtual inventory” model that most online vendors operate. The merchant is fully dependent on a network of individual suppliers to provide them the correct information about the stones they list, as well as fulfilling the order when it is placed. A lot can go wrong in those exchanges!

While selling stones that you have no investment in allows companies to sell at lower prices, from a consumer standpoint there is significant value in shopping in-house inventories. These companies have put their money in the stones, have vetted them thoroughly, they are not simultaneously offered on dozens of websites, and they can guarantee delivery. Having the diamonds in-house also provides the opportunity for real-time consultation with a gemologist who actually has the diamond in hand, and other services like comparison imaging.

We know all too well the perils of virtual inventory as we also provide this service in addition to our in-house offerings. To reduce issues we are very selective in the diamonds we offer in the virtual category. Consequently we don’t offer the vast numbers of stones others do. But we understand the extreme disappointment that shoppers feel when they shop for months to find the perfect stone, place the order expecting to be thrilled, and then feel the frustration of having to go back to the drawing board.

Especially when it comes to engagement rings, having confidence in the delivery promise is a big value. The fact is, most shoppers do not realize that the diamonds they are looking at have never been seen by the merchant they are dealing with, and may or may not actually be available. Many merchants are less than transparent about their process.
Click to expand...

Brian, all good points as usual but you missed an important fact the OP said…….the diamond was shipped, he had shipping info, the diamond was received, to later find out no diamond shipped. I don’t think WF would have done this blunder. If I was the OP being jerked around like this for 2 weeks I would never utter the words “JA” again. I hope the OP moves on and finds a wonderful stone.
 
I'm so sorry. I would be very annoyed if I had specifically asked them to confirm the availability before paying. If it is a risk that a stone may not be available, even if the system says it is, if I was working at JA, I would speak directly to the source, and confirm with the source that they are looking at the stone, setting it aside, and making it unavailable, before telling the buyer to remit payment. There is something inherently broken about the process. And if there is nothing that any one along the chain can do to circumvent the potential break, I just would not buy from them. Even if it is not intentionally deceitful, the result is that IT IS. I paid my money. Now you tell me it's not available. That fraud as far as I'm concerned, even if it's due to a broken process. I'm black and white about this stuff. I would not buy from any vendor where this could happen. That's just me.

I wish you the very best of luck in finding a stone you love, and being able to buy it in good faith. Crossing fingers for you.
 
WillyDiamond said:
If I was the OP being jerked around like this for 2 weeks I would never utter the words “JA” again. I hope the OP moves on and finds a wonderful stone.
Click to expand...

This. The two weeks of misinformation makes all the difference in this situation.

The benefits of virtual stock outweigh the potential issues for many shoppers, but in this case the pitfalls in the system don’t seem to have been properly managed at all.

Maybe the various computerised stock systems involved don’t ‘talk’ spontaneously to each other so there’s always some lag time built into the process even in the 21st century, but two weeks is enough time to send updated information via carrier pigeon. :roll: Sitting on someone’s $60k for a fortnight without the product to back it up and whilst providing misinformation is inexcusable.
 
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WillyDiamond said:
Brian, all good points as usual but you missed an important fact the OP said…….the diamond was shipped, he had shipping info, the diamond was received, to later find out no diamond shipped. I don’t think WF would have done this blunder. If I was the OP being jerked around like this for 2 weeks I would never utter the words “JA” again. I hope the OP moves on and finds a wonderful stone.
Click to expand...

@WillyDiamond ,
I can't speak to the specific misinformation that @Kat01 received, nor would I be allowed to under the forum rules for trade members. My comments were intended to explain the root cause of problems like this for sellers of virtual inventory. The merchant is relying completely on the assertions made by their supplier.

To shed a little more light on the challenges with this model, it must be understood that the global diamond "network" consists of hundreds of individual manufacturers and dealers. It may be surprising to many consumers that a good number of these suppliers are micro businesses - very small family operations or even just one-man shows. Their practices run the gamut from highly sophisticated, ethical operations with excellent quality control to seat-of-the-pants operators with poor communication practices, and in some cases questionable customer service practices.

It's also necessary to understand that suppliers often have their diamonds "out working", on memo (consignment) to other dealers and retailers. Until their diamonds are declared sold, or more often, until they actually issue an invoice, they consider that inventory 'available', even though the owners of the stones themselves do not have actual control.

A theoretical example may help in understanding how these things sometimes play out and how the merchant is caught in a difficult position:
  1. Supplier lists a diamond on the international database.
  2. Online seller posts it, and gets an inquiry.
  3. Merchant confirms available with supplier.
  4. Customer places order and pays.
  5. Merchant gives customer a delivery date based upon normal processing time.
  6. Merchant places order with supplier.
  7. Supplier recalls the stone from consignment and confirms with merchant on delivery.
  8. Time passes, supplier is getting mixed messages from the company holding the diamond on consignment.
  9. These mixed messages are being relayed in some form or another to the customer.
  10. The supplier starts putting pressure on the consignee to return the diamond or pay for it.
  11. After more time passes, consignee declares the diamond sold.
  12. Supplier issues invoice to consignee and notifies online merchant the diamond is now sold.
  13. Merchant has not just a little egg on the face with customer, but the whole 3-egg omelet.
 
Kat01 said:
Hi all,
Thank you for your input.

I totally understand the fact that somebody else could have bought it, but
1. from when they confirmed I can reserve it till being told it has been sold was 2 weeks. (And according to them they did check that it was available...)
2. And then yes, getting shipping updates if there was no diamond to ship in the first place? (And within one day I was told the diamond had arrived, next thing I was told it hadn't arrived yet, but will still arrive that very day. Only to be told a day later there is no diamond.)

And no, not really apologetic, just sent me an e-mail with some sub-optimal suggestions (with terrible bow ties, except maybe for the more expensive diamond - hence the bait and switch comment).
There is something else I picked up that may explain their behavior - unfortunately don't have clarity on it just yet.
Click to expand...

Is it possible that it came in and they showed it to someone else willing to pay more for it? I certainly hope that is not the case.
 
cannuck said:
Is it possible that it came in and they showed it to someone else willing to pay more for it? I certainly hope that is not the case.
Click to expand...

Possible but very unlikely. I expect that it sold via a different vendor/seller and JA was wrong about having 'secured' the stone
 
Texas Leaguer said:
@WillyDiamond ,
I can't speak to the specific misinformation that @Kat01 received, nor would I be allowed to under the forum rules for trade members. My comments were intended to explain the root cause of problems like this for sellers of virtual inventory. The merchant is relying completely on the assertions made by their supplier.

To shed a little more light on the challenges with this model, it must be understood that the global diamond "network" consists of hundreds of individual manufacturers and dealers. It may be surprising to many consumers that a good number of these suppliers are micro businesses - very small family operations or even just one-man shows. Their practices run the gamut from highly sophisticated, ethical operations with excellent quality control to seat-of-the-pants operators with poor communication practices, and in some cases questionable customer service practices.

It's also necessary to understand that suppliers often have their diamonds "out working", on memo (consignment) to other dealers and retailers. Until their diamonds are declared sold, or more often, until they actually issue an invoice, they consider that inventory 'available', even though the owners of the stones themselves do not have actual control.

A theoretical example may help in understanding how these things sometimes play out and how the merchant is caught in a difficult position:
  1. Supplier lists a diamond on the international database.
  2. Online seller posts it, and gets an inquiry.
  3. Merchant confirms available with supplier.
  4. Customer places order and pays.
  5. Merchant gives customer a delivery date based upon normal processing time.
  6. Merchant places order with supplier.
  7. Supplier recalls the stone from consignment and confirms with merchant on delivery.
  8. Time passes, supplier is getting mixed messages from the company holding the diamond on consignment.
  9. These mixed messages are being relayed in some form or another to the customer.
  10. The supplier starts putting pressure on the consignee to return the diamond or pay for it.
  11. After more time passes, consignee declares the diamond sold.
  12. Supplier issues invoice to consignee and notifies online merchant the diamond is now sold.
  13. Merchant has not just a little egg on the face with customer, but the whole 3-egg omelet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the details, Brian.
 
Texas Leaguer said:
@WillyDiamond ,
I can't speak to the specific misinformation that @Kat01 received, nor would I be allowed to under the forum rules for trade members. My comments were intended to explain the root cause of problems like this for sellers of virtual inventory. The merchant is relying completely on the assertions made by their supplier.

To shed a little more light on the challenges with this model, it must be understood that the global diamond "network" consists of hundreds of individual manufacturers and dealers. It may be surprising to many consumers that a good number of these suppliers are micro businesses - very small family operations or even just one-man shows. Their practices run the gamut from highly sophisticated, ethical operations with excellent quality control to seat-of-the-pants operators with poor communication practices, and in some cases questionable customer service practices.

It's also necessary to understand that suppliers often have their diamonds "out working", on memo (consignment) to other dealers and retailers. Until their diamonds are declared sold, or more often, until they actually issue an invoice, they consider that inventory 'available', even though the owners of the stones themselves do not have actual control.

A theoretical example may help in understanding how these things sometimes play out and how the merchant is caught in a difficult position:
  1. Supplier lists a diamond on the international database.
  2. Online seller posts it, and gets an inquiry.
  3. Merchant confirms available with supplier.
  4. Customer places order and pays.
  5. Merchant gives customer a delivery date based upon normal processing time.
  6. Merchant places order with supplier.
  7. Supplier recalls the stone from consignment and confirms with merchant on delivery.
  8. Time passes, supplier is getting mixed messages from the company holding the diamond on consignment.
  9. These mixed messages are being relayed in some form or another to the customer.
  10. The supplier starts putting pressure on the consignee to return the diamond or pay for it.
  11. After more time passes, consignee declares the diamond sold.
  12. Supplier issues invoice to consignee and notifies online merchant the diamond is now sold.
  13. Merchant has not just a little egg on the face with customer, but the whole 3-egg omelet.
Click to expand...

So I see the breakdown at step 3. The definition of “available” needs to change. The merchant cannot tell the customer that the stone is available until the stone has been recalled from the consignor and
is ready for delivery to the merchant. Only then is it actually “available”. That how I see it as the customer who wants to buy the stone. I don’t want to pay money until the merchant can deliver it to me with certainty. I think that’s a reasonable expectation. That’s why I won’t ever buy from a drop shipper again.
 
lissyflo said:
Maybe the various computerised stock systems involved don’t ‘talk’ spontaneously to each other so there’s always some lag time built into the process even in the 21st century, but two weeks is enough time to send updated information via carrier pigeon. :roll: Sitting on someone’s $60k for a fortnight without the product to back it up and whilst providing misinformation is inexcusable.
Click to expand...
This.
Do we need to start a GoFundMe for some carrier pigeons?
I will add only that JA’s lack of participation in this thread - and others - has not gone unnoticed.
 
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Sitting on sixty thousand dollars is absolutely inexcusable. I don't care what breaks down where, with that amount of money on the line honest and transparent communication is the bare minimum expectation.

PS features JA as an example of "best in class". Stories like this both embarrass JA and undermine confidence in PS recommendations, and there have been a number of legitimate complaints about JA's service the past few years. And I speak as someone who has bought from JA in the past and been very happy with my purchases.

JA, it takes more to earn and maintain a positive reputation here on PS than simply paying for forum sponsorship.
 
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I'm sorry to hear about this issue you're having with JA. I can't add anything to the discussion around reasons why this could have happened, but I assume you'll be looking for a new diamond now. As such, I just wanted to say that I've recently had a wonderful experience buying from Brian Gavin (as many others have as well). I'd recommend you at least have a look on his website. Generally speaking, the caliber of stones from Brian Gavin will be better than those from JA, and the customer service is most certainly better!

Brian Gavin didn't have my stone in-house either and had to procure it from elsewhere. Once it came in, I had a personal phone call with Brain while he had the stone physically in his hands, so I'm confident saying what you experienced with JA would NEVER happen with BG.
 
Bozman52 said:
I'm sorry to hear about this issue you're having with JA. I can't add anything to the discussion around reasons why this could have happened, but I assume you'll be looking for a new diamond now. As such, I just wanted to say that I've recently had a wonderful experience buying from Brian Gavin (as many others have as well). I'd recommend you at least have a look on his website. Generally speaking, the caliber of stones from Brian Gavin will be better than those from JA, and the customer service is most certainly better!

Brian Gavin didn't have my stone in-house either and had to procure it from elsewhere. Once it came in, I had a personal phone call with Brain while he had the stone physically in his hands, so I'm confident saying what you experienced with JA would NEVER happen with BG.
Click to expand...

This…
 
We wanted to pop in for a moment and let everyone know that we have been in contact with the customer and want to help make this right. Our absence in this thread is not indicative of our caring or awareness of the situation.
 
Great to hear.

After this client’s needs are resolved, I look forward to JA coming back here to explain what will change within processing and communication workflows to ensure that no more customers wind up in this situation in future.
 
Kat01 said:
Hi all,

I reserved a diamond with James Allen, confirmed and paid over $60k (3ct oval).

I was informed they confirmed with the diamond supplier all is in order and I was given a shipping date.
I received various messages that shipping was happening and everything is on track.

Suddenly after 2 weeks I was informed that the diamond was never available, that their shipping/tracking messages were wrong and that the diamond is not available. At the same time they offered me some very sub-optimal alternatives though (terrible bow ties etc.).

Is this a case of bait and switch? Has it happened to others? Seems so according to the Yelp reviews.

I have questions about their process and trustworthiness. Wouldn't like to see other people go through this. I have some ideas, but would love to get your input.

Best
Click to expand...

I believe James Allen (and Blue Nile, Rare Carat) are all sourcing from the same suppliers. So if someone has it out on memo but it hasn’t sold yet it sometimes is still listed as available, even though it might not be. Super frustrating, I know. I had one I was looking at that said available but was actually not. So sorry this is happening to you!
 
jamesallenrings said:
We wanted to pop in for a moment and let everyone know that we have been in contact with the customer and want to help make this right. Our absence in this thread is not indicative of our caring or awareness of the situation.
Click to expand...

I hope you have wired the monies back to the OP by now.
 
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