Jedi Spinel Grading from AIGS lab

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

From IDEX: "Grading reports are now available for red gemstones marketed with the trade name Jedi spinels, after the Star Wars movies.

The Bangkok-based Asian Institute of Gemological Sciences (AIGS) says it aims to standardize six key criteria - color, fluorescence, clarity, cut, brilliance, treatment and origin."

Grading Reports for the "Star Wars" Red Gemstones

 

[Double E]

Thanks for posting this Gary!

As a normal consumer knowing not much about AIGS, is it considered reputable, reliable in the industry?

Feels like this certification system will disqualify a number of “Jedi” in the market.

 

[Double E]

And while the price per carat of Top red and pink (does it mean Jedi?) is said to be $600 - 1200 between 1 and 2 ct. in the article, the price info. from different places or sources in the internet look contradictory. In this regards, how much should we expect as a reasonable estimate?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thanks for posting this Gary!

As a normal consumer knowing not much about AIGS, is it considered reputable, reliable in the industry?

Feels like this certification system will disqualify a number of “Jedi” in the market.

I am sure others can comment on the lab.
There are many smaller ones than these people and I occasionally come across well written articles by them.
Naming individual colors is a minefield.
Padparascha, Royal Blue, Pifdgeons blood, cornflour etc

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

And while the price per carat of Top red and pink (does it mean Jedi?) is said to be $600 - 1200 between 1 and 2 ct. in the article, the price info. from different places or sources in the internet look contradictory. In this regards, how much should we expect as a reasonable estimate?

Hahahaha - I am a diamond man - I know diamond prices. Colored gem people say the diamond market is opaque - that would make the colored gem business a black market hahahaha

 

[Double E]

I am sure others can comment on the lab.
There are many smaller ones than these people and I occasionally come across well written articles by them.
Naming individual colors is a minefield.
Padparascha, Royal Blue, Pifdgeons blood, cornflour etc

Can’t agree more that naming is minefield!
To my understanding, Henry Ho is sort of Chairman of AIGS, who’s also the one who started to use Jedi as a unknown nickname ( at the time) when purchasing spinels in Myanmar years ago together with Vincent Pardieu. It makes AIGS quality standard system looks more convincing (to me ATM), especially compared to solely relying on one’s dealer or jeweller used for stone sourcing. Would appreciate any other thoughts on this!

 

[Double E]

Hahahaha - I am a diamond man - I know diamond prices. Colored gem people say the diamond market is opaque - that would make the colored gem business a black market hahahaha

Sorry for many questions I have a love for both worlds, and usually talk about these two thing separately in two sections^^

 

[Karl_K]

add a goofy name and double the asking price

 

[Double E]

add a goofy name and double the asking price

Luckily we got something else without such sort of name and premium while still beautiful~

 

[Karl_K]

Luckily we got something else without such sort of name and premium while still beautiful~

what I consider funny is based on the image it allows stones that are way to pink into a claimed top red scale for me.

 

[Double E]

what I consider funny is based on the image it allows stones that are way to pink into a claimed top red scale for me.

Do you mean even something within that “red line box” in the chart remain still too pink? If so, I will not complain those pinkier ones being taken out from “Jedi”!

 

[Karl_K]

Do you mean even something within that “red line box” in the chart remain still too pink? If so, I will not complain those pinkier ones being taken out from “Jedi”!

I put a white dot on the ones in the "jedi" box that are too pink to me to be top red spinel.
Some where on the board is some pictures of a real top spinal that someone on here bought some years ago.
I wish I had bought the ones years ago that I looked at but I liked to eat more than having them.

 

[Double E]

I put a white dot on the ones in the "jedi" box that are too pink to me to be top red spinel.
Some where on the board is some pictures of a real top spinal that someone on here bought some years ago.
I wish I had bought the ones years ago that I looked at but I liked to eat more than having them.

Would be lovely if there’re some other gem species with comparable optical quality, color saturation combining that strong fluorescence etc. , but less expensive.

 

[Karl_K]

Would be lovely if there’re some other gem species with comparable optical quality, color saturation combining that strong fluorescence etc. , but less expensive.

That used to be spinel compared to ruby.
It looks like I forgot to upload the chart...
The ones with the white box are the ones I consider to pink to be top red but are in the jedi box.

You will probably have to zoom the image to see the details.

 

[demantoidz]

I do now know how generous AIGS are with their designations but I wouldn't take it too seriously as with GRS Pigeon Blood for rubies, unless there was a reason to think otherwise.

FYI GUILD already has a jedi designation for spinel
here's an example I saved at some point off finejewellerysg's IG because it was the first time I saw it.

 

[demantoidz]

add a goofy name and double the asking price

It is unfortunate that it can be abused/used to trick less educated people.

 

[Double E]

That used to be spinel compared to ruby.
It looks like I forgot to upload the chart...
The ones with the white box are the ones I consider to pink to be top red but are in the jedi box.

You will probably have to zoom the image to see the details.

Anyone like me prefer spinel than ruby? The colours are more open and vibrant~

Clearly see where you draw the line between Jedi and non Jedi and the colour difference you try to point out, but I guess there would be always someone arguing whether only the most red spinel should be counted as Jedi~ Such thought would be to some extent similar to the concept behind the AIGS grading, e.g. the colour or hue is not the only criteria, but also fluorescence and other aspects like cut and clarity.

So while hue (whether red or vivid hot pink) could be down to personal preference, IMO fluorescence can be equally essential however probably a bit more universal, as it sort of makes the colour extra intense and elevates the saturation, which separates “Jedi” from other saturated red / pink gemstones, be it spinel or not.

So my questions are whether it’s possible for hot pink spinel to have strong fluorescence? And more critically, is it such a big difference between so called Jedi and non Jedi and even similar saturated corundum? I haven’t got any natural spinel and corundum~

 

[Karl_K]

So while hue (whether red or vivid hot pink) could be down to personal preference,

Pink is far more common than top red and should not be in the same class in my opinion.
That is like the nasty habit some have in the trade calling pink sapphire a ruby.

This is also what go the term blue/white banned in diamonds.
It started out as D/IF with very strong florescence also called super D or D+ of the finest water using a real old term, selling at insane prices as blue/white.
So others started using the term on any diamond with strong or higher florescence at crazy prices. ijk strong blue yep some dishonest sellers called them blue/white at even more insane markups.

 

[T L]

I’m surprised Disney/Lucas isn’t suing for copyright infringement over the name! Lol!

 

[fredflintstone]

"AIGS" is a highly respected lab. Very well known amongst colored gemstone dealers.


With that said, "Jedi" Spinel and labeling it as in a report is just another way to get your money.

George Lucas should get his cut out of this. Afterall, now a lab is officially making money off something he created. LOL!

 

[T L]

Well at least AIGS is using a subset of red/pink spinels to denote “Jedi.”

This is the complete range of color for GRS calling a ruby “pigeon blood.” Lololololol!

J/k

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think you can chose your color. Technically the color would be the sams a bar de scanner - produced with synthetic ruby.
But who knows - you could make a laser color with spinel - and thus any shade of pink red to pad could be achieved?
Personally I believe people should chose what ever color they like and poo poo the advice and names.

 

[Double E]

Pink is far more common than top red and should not be in the same class in my opinion.
That is like the nasty habit some have in the trade calling pink sapphire a ruby.

This is also what go the term blue/white banned in diamonds.
It started out as D/IF with very strong florescence also called super D or D+ of the finest water using a real old term, selling at insane prices as blue/white.
So others started using the term on any diamond with strong or higher florescence at crazy prices. ijk strong blue yep some dishonest sellers called them blue/white at even more insane markups.

I see your point, colour rarity~I am not sure but I guess top red Jedi is generally pricier than more pinkish Jedi? But anyway, pricing of Jedi is a mess…and naming is an endless game~

I do agree what has happened to Blue white!

 

[Double E]

Well at least AIGS is using a subset of red/pink spinels to denote “Jedi.”

This is the complete range of color for GRS calling a ruby “pigeon blood.” Lololololol!

J/k

I honestly sometimes found it hard to align such colour charts with real life gemstone hues which could be much more variances than a chart.

 

[Double E]

I think you can chose your color.

Personally I believe people should chose what ever color they like and poo poo the advice and names.

This~

 

[Nick_G]

Interesting.

I don't know if this small (5-6 mm) but vibrant rough specimen from Vietnam would qualify:

 

[minousbijoux]

@Nick_G: I'm fairly certain that only stones from Myanmar can be considered Jedi. My understanding from reading an article written by Vincent Pardieu (years ago, soon after they were found) is that upon discovery, the shape of the crystals from the Man Sin mine looked like the Jedi aircraft. Of course I can't find a photo right now, but they really do look like the shape of the crystals...

 

[Nick_G]

@Nick_G: I'm fairly certain that only stones from Myanmar can be considered Jedi. My understanding from reading an article written by Vincent Pardieu (years ago, soon after they were found) is that upon discovery, the shape of the crystals from the Man Sin mine looked like the Jedi aircraft. Of course I can't find a photo right now, but they really do look like the shape of the crystals...

From what I gather Vincent Pardieu coined the term to highlight the fact that these vivid neon red/pink spinels were untouched by the dark side, like a Jedi Knight. In other words they had no grey/brown modifiers at all.

I'd imagine the top red/pink colours from Mahenge would probably qualify as well.

PS the spinel I posted pics of above actually came as a freebie from an eBay seller!

 

[Double E]

That’s a bit confused really whether Jedi is bounded to from Myanma only. I watched a clip by Vincent recently, if my memory is right, they don’t directly rule out other localities, but tried to point out the general difference, eg usually more orangish from Mahenge.

I think it’s not bad if one found a stone from non Jedi origin with Jedi qualities.

 

[minousbijoux]

Well for what its worth, at least AIGS only gives the Jedi label out to Myanmar stones.