Jeweler didn't map my two .75ct diamonds; when I called about it, said they don't map small diamonds???

[Emerald City]

So the title says it all. I met with him yesterday to get some repairs done and talk more about some earrings he's making for me (not the amethyst ones, for those who read that thread). One of the things I asked him to do was to appraise a ring I have with a 2ct emerald and two .75 ct diamonds. (I'm thinking of selling it.) The place was hectic and he was rushing between me and other customers, so I forgot to ask him to map the diamonds for me. I called him today and said that I was a bit bothered we had forgotten to map the diamonds, and he said, "We don't map small diamonds."

So I want to know if I'm being silly for wanting the two .75ct side stones mapped? I know they aren't huge, but they're not tiny either and my budget isn't such that I can buy diamonds that size very often. I trust HIM, but I have never met the people who do his bench work/behind the scenes work and so I don't trust them at all.

Anyway, if it's industry standard to not map diamonds that small, I'll sit down and shut up.

Thank you for reading. The ring in question is in this thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/square-cut-emerald-trilogy-ring.260013/

 

[Lookinagain]

So you are concerned that they are going to swap out your diamonds for some other stones? I have never asked a jeweler to "map" my diamonds. If you are that concerned, you can look at them with a loop and know where any inclusions are so should be able to recognize your stones. However, I really don't think that reputable jewelers swap out diamonds. That could ruin their reputation. I really don't think it happens often.

 

[distracts]

I've never had an appraisal map the inclusions on my diamonds? I've only ever had lab reports do that and then the appraiser or jeweler matches the diamond to the report. No report, nobody bothered with the inclusions.

 

[Emerald City]

So you are concerned that they are going to swap out your diamonds for some other stones? I have never asked a jeweler to "map" my diamonds. If you are that concerned, you can look at them with a loop and know where any inclusions are so should be able to recognize your stones. However, I really don't think that reputable jewelers swap out diamonds. That could ruin their reputation. I really don't think it happens often.

I know I sound paranoid, but my mother actually did have a jeweler "replace" a diamond that fell out of her ring with a CZ. This place is reputable, so I agree it's less likely, but it does happen, and more often than people will admit. I mainly want to know if refusing to map diamonds under 1 ct. is standard, and if I'm being unreasonable to want them mapped.

 

[Emerald City]

I've never had an appraisal map the inclusions on my diamonds? I've only ever had lab reports do that and then the appraiser or jeweler matches the diamond to the report. No report, nobody bothered with the inclusions.

That makes me feel better. Still, I'm upset by how he made me feel on the phone, as though wanting my diamonds mapped was unreasonable. Again, if it isn't industry standard, I'll cop to being unreasonable and alter my thinking on the issue. I hope someone who knows better than I will come along soon.

 

[Karl_K]

Its not a standard part of an appraisal but most will do so on request.
Some offer photographs from their microscope showing the inclusions instead.
A cell phone will work with the right lighting for many stones even into the lower vs range to get enough detail that the diamond can be identified by inclusions.
With a loupe you keep a mental picture to quickly id your stones into the vs range.

 

[Emerald City]

Its not a standard part of an appraisal but most will do so on request.
Some offer photographs from their microscope showing the inclusions instead.
A cell phone will work with the right lighting for many stones even into the lower vs range to get enough detail that the diamond can be identified by inclusions.
With a loupe you keep a mental picture to quickly id your stones into the vs range.

That is really good to know. Thank you, @Karl_K. What does it mean that, when I called and asked if we could map the diamonds together, he was reluctant to do so? He said I could come pick up the ring if I wanted. I took that to mean either I let it drop, or he won't do the appraisal.

 

[tyty333]

Why don't you ask the jeweler?

"Map the diamonds together"... Do you mean help or be with him while he maps the stones?

I can see why he is reluctant. This is not normal or standard.

Have you tried calling other places and asking for a clarity map on the two .75 side stones as well as an appraisal? You may find someone who is willing to do it. Maybe not.

Asking a lot of questions up front and discussing expectations may help with not being caught off-guard. We all live and learn.
Don't take it personally (my opinion).

 

[Karl_K]

That is really good to know. Thank you, @Karl_K. What does it mean that, when I called and asked if we could map the diamonds together, he was reluctant to do so? He said I could come pick up the ring if I wanted. I took that to mean either I let it drop, or he won't do the appraisal.

It means to me that he is lacking in customer service skills.
I would find someone else for future projects.

 

[Karl_K]

Have you tried calling other places and asking for a clarity map on the two .75 side stones as well as an appraisal? You may find someone who is willing to do it. Maybe not.

It seems like the old school jewelers are more willing to do diagrams than the younger ones.
You would want them for all 3 stones from the same place on one appraisal.
Micro-photography is a viable alternative.

This list is kinda stale but if one of these independent appraisers is close by and still in business you might have better luck with them.

Appraisers Archive

If you're looking for a trustworthy jeweler then you've found the right place. We have compiled a comprehensive lists of jewelers all over the world.

www.pricescope.com

 

[rainydaze]

I had a jeweler map my .46ct diamond - that had an AGS report already - when she took it in to have it set into the setting she was selling me.

This wasn't an appraisal situation so it differs from yours, but the microscope was out front, on its own stand, displayed, and well-lit. This indicated to me that mapping was an important part of their practice in handling customers' own stones.

It seems like a simple thing to do to ensure customers' comfort and trust, as well as boost the jeweler's image and reputation.

 

[Wink]

My artistic skill is about a -10. I have a hard time drawing a smiley face.

On any of our Continental Legacy Diamonds, this is not an issue, they all have AGS diamond grading reports. Still, for smaller diamonds, in the quarter carat range and below, we do have diamonds without grading reports.

My attempts at mapping are pathetic, thus, when showing clients these diamonds in my office in Boise, I liked to show my clients the proposed diamond under a scope, and ask them to draw the identifying features to their satisfaction. This served two objectives. One, my clients got to see the inside of their diamonds and "get to know them." Two, If they drew it, they were going to remember it much better than if I drew it.

Personally, I think the microscope is an item that all retail jewelers should have and use for both papered and non papered diamonds. Being able to share the inside of your diamonds is a wonderful confidence builder. I am sadly surprised how many jewelers do not have one available.

 

[Emerald City]

Why don't you ask the jeweler?

"Map the diamonds together"... Do you mean help or be with him while he maps the stones?

I can see why he is reluctant. This is not normal or standard.

Have you tried calling other places and asking for a clarity map on the two .75 side stones as well as an appraisal? You may find someone who is willing to do it. Maybe not.

Asking a lot of questions up front and discussing expectations may help with not being caught off-guard. We all live and learn.
Don't take it personally (my opinion).

I wouldn't go so far as saying it isn't 'normal.' It may not be standard, but it isn't abnormal, either. In point of fact, another customer was there mapping her diamond with another one of the store employees. I've been there several times while my jeweler maps diamonds with his clients. Further, it is what a lot of articles over the past 10 years or so have recommended; if you map it together, you agree at the time on the diamond's characteristics, so there is far less chance of a misunderstanding later.

I think I may have found another place to get an appraisal done. I will call them and ask if they also map diamonds, or will at least do so for me.

I meant to ask while I was there about mapping the diamonds, which would have prevented this after-the-fact misunderstanding, but it was complete chaos that day and he was bouncing between several clients at once, so I just forgot.

 

[Emerald City]

It means to me that he is lacking in customer service skills.
I would find someone else for future projects.

I've mentioned here and there in my most recent threads reasons why I'm starting to not be happy with him anymore. I think you're right and it's time to find someone else.

 

[Emerald City]

It seems like the old school jewelers are more willing to do diagrams than the younger ones.
You would want them for all 3 stones from the same place on one appraisal.
Micro-photography is a viable alternative.

This list is kinda stale but if one of these independent appraisers is close by and still in business you might have better luck with them.

Appraisers Archive

If you're looking for a trustworthy jeweler then you've found the right place. We have compiled a comprehensive lists of jewelers all over the world.

www.pricescope.com

That is interesting that newer jewelers are MORE reluctant to do this than older ones. Why do you think that is? And yes, I would be fine with micro-photography, although I don't know if that is something my jeweler offers.

I looked at the list and there is one listing for my state, the Washington Gemological Laboratory. It's a VERY long drive for me, though. Still, I think I'll give them a call on Monday. Thank you for that; what a valuable resource!

 

[Emerald City]

I had a jeweler map my .46ct diamond - that had an AGS report already - when she took it in to have it set into the setting she was selling me.

This wasn't an appraisal situation so it differs from yours, but the microscope was out front, on its own stand, displayed, and well-lit. This indicated to me that mapping was an important part of their practice in handling customers' own stones.

It seems like a simple thing to do to ensure customers' comfort and trust, as well as boost the jeweler's image and reputation.

My jeweler has TWO microscopes constantly sitting out ready for 'action,' so to speak, so it isn't as though it would have been inconvenient in terms of hauling out heavy equipment or anything. And they were mapping other customers' stones, several of which were smaller than mine, so I don't know why I was told 'we don't map stones that small.' Maybe it isn't industry standard to map people's stones, but you're right, it would make me feel a LOT better and would make me willing to keep going back there. At this point, the diamond mapping thing plus a LOT of other things have accumulated to make me feel like I should just take my business elsewhere.

 

[Emerald City]

My artistic skill is about a -10. I have a hard time drawing a smiley face.

On any of our Continental Legacy Diamonds, this is not an issue, they all have AGS diamond grading reports. Still, for smaller diamonds, in the quarter carat range and below, we do have diamonds without grading reports.

My attempts at mapping are pathetic, thus, when showing clients these diamonds in my office in Boise, I liked to show my clients the proposed diamond under a scope, and ask them to draw the identifying features to their satisfaction. This served two objectives. One, my clients got to see the inside of their diamonds and "get to know them." Two, If they drew it, they were going to remember it much better than if I drew it.

Personally, I think the microscope is an item that all retail jewelers should have and use for both papered and non papered diamonds. Being able to share the inside of your diamonds is a wonderful confidence builder. I am sadly surprised how many jewelers do not have one available.

Wink, I am honoured you posted in my thread. I have been a HUGE fan of your work for a very long time, and I'm still very sad you stopped cutting CZs. Your CZs were a work of art. My husband and I were actually planning a driving trip to Idaho just to see some of them (and buy some of them!!) when we learned you no longer cut them - that's how revered they were, and are.

My jeweler always has two microscopes sitting out, lit and ready to use, and another customer was getting her stones mapped while I was waiting for my jeweler to return from helping someone else. I would have very much appreciated his time and his patience if he had helped me map my diamonds. They may not be the biggest diamonds, but they're mine and they represent my husband's hard-earned money. It would have been a gracious thing for him to do. I am not at all surprised you do this for your customers, as you are known for being a lovely man to work with.

And you make a good point; I would love to see the inside of my stones and 'get to know them.' I was able to look at the emerald stone in my other ring with the microscope once and I love knowing that there are inclusions in the stone that cannot be seen with the naked eye; it's just cool to know and gives more 'mystery' to the stone.

I feel kinda sad. I really liked my jeweler but there is a growing pile of things pointing clearly to the fact that I need to find a new jeweler.

 

[Wink]

I feel kinda sad. I really liked my jeweler but there is a growing pile of things pointing clearly to the fact that I need to find a new jeweler.

You know this man and have a history with him. Before you relegate him to the discarded trash heap, may I recommend scheduling a conversation with him to air your feelings and misgivings?

It may well be time to move on, but it sounds to me like you would like to at least know why the slippage, if not perhaps to possibly fix the issue.

If the meeting confirms your current feelings, you will be able to move on without the sadness. If you are able to fix the issues, it may lead to a stronger and more comfortable relationship than ever before.

Just my thoughts on a rainy Saturday morning.

 

[Wink]

Wink, I am honoured you posted in my thread. I have been a HUGE fan of your work for a very long time

Thank you for your kind words. It is shortly before 5 AM on a Saturday morning. I will leave the house in a few minutes and my spirits will be high after reading your comments.

 

[denverappraiser]

Mostly this is an issue of money and the objectives. Plotting, which is what this is called among jewelers, is a pain and mostly unnecessary. It's not normally included for 'free' as part of an appraisal. If the issue is identifying a particular stone later to know if it's the same stone, photomicrographs are better because they pick up other proportion information and details about the inclusions that can be pretty distinctive. If you're asking for additional services beyond their usual, it may just be a matter of negotiating the price.

 

[Emerald City]

You know this man and have a history with him. Before you relegate him to the discarded trash heap, may I recommend scheduling a conversation with him to air your feelings and misgivings?

It may well be time to move on, but it sounds to me like you would like to at least know why the slippage, if not perhaps to possibly fix the issue.

If the meeting confirms your current feelings, you will be able to move on without the sadness. If you are able to fix the issues, it may lead to a stronger and more comfortable relationship than ever before.

Just my thoughts on a rainy Saturday morning.

That is a really smart idea. He is the only local jeweler I currently trust with my diamonds so it would indeed be a loss to cut ties with him. I will do that - I am actually headed over there tomorrow to pick up some pieces he's had for a month. Thank you for the welcome advice

 

[Emerald City]

Thank you for your kind words. It is shortly before 5 AM on a Saturday morning. I will leave the house in a few minutes and my spirits will be high after reading your comments.

Awww, that is so sweet! Reading your reply brightened up my evening and cheered me up. It's been a day I'm glad to see the end of so this was nice to read. I hope you had a wonderful Saturday! It's funny how the weather around here was unseasonably hot and then the very next day turned rainy and cold. (Which I actually prefer because I'm weird.) Was it the same for your area?

 

[Emerald City]

Mostly this is an issue of money and the objectives. Plotting, which is what this is called among jewelers, is a pain and mostly unnecessary. It's not normally included for 'free' as part of an appraisal. If the issue is identifying a particular stone later to know if it's the same stone, photomicrographs are better because they pick up other proportion information and details about the inclusions that can be pretty distinctive. If you're asking for additional services beyond their usual, it may just be a matter of negotiating the price.

I didn't know that! Thank you so much for clarifying this. I would also be fine with a photomicrograph, it doesn't have to be plotting, but I didn't know the photographs were an option until people replied in this thread. I'll bring this up and see if this is an option. I appreciate your taking the time to answer my question

 

[Wink]

It's funny how the weather around here was unseasonably hot and then the very next day turned rainy and cold. (Which I actually prefer because I'm weird.) Was it the same for your area?

Yes. Wonderfully welcome, we really needed the rain. And the cool air, OMG, delicious.

 

[Emerald City]

Yes. Wonderfully welcome, we really needed the rain. And the cool air, OMG, delicious.

It was, wasn't it? I can't stand hot or dry weather. My ideal time of year is fall/winter.

I am so embarrassed - it's been so long since you replied! My husband was out of town this past week, so all the chores and petkeeping fell to me, and it takes me a lot longer because of how bad my back is. I just plumb forgot about this thread. I'm so sorry! That was thoughtless of me.

My jeweler and I did speak, and he offered to plot my 1ct marquise diamond for me without my asking. He clarified that they just never map smaller or accent diamonds, but he would do it if I asked next time.

This has been an enlightening thread. There seems to be no industry standard as to diamond plotting, but the consensus is that the jeweler should probably plot or photograph a diamond if a customer is truly concerned.

I just had all my jewelry appraised for insurance purposes. Wow...

 

[Lookinagain]

I just had all my jewelry appraised for insurance purposes. Wow...

Please check your policy and see what it covers. Most only pay replacement value and that may be less than appraised value for insurance purposes. You don't want to pay premiums on a value that you will not recoup.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I can only think of three instances where I was involved in getting a piece of diamond jewelry appraised when the diamonds (.75-1.0 ct) had no grading report, and none of those appraisals did a clarity map of the diamonds (and it was all different jewelers). They gave a color and clarity grade and described the cut. So I do not think it is very common or expected for that to happen. I wouldn't worry about it, either. Your emerald ring is lovely and I think an appraisal that gives the color and clarity (and estimated weight when the stones are set) is adequate for side stones. If it was a larger center stone that I wanted to sell, then I'd probably have the jeweler send the diamond to GIA to get that report as well as the appraisal.