just bought engagement ring today, and regret it...

[TD220]

i have spent months researching diamonds, the 4cs, prices, who to go to etc...it has been an overwhelming experience. i opted to go w/ a jeweler a friend knows, and even though i know everyone makes money, i wanted to make sure it was somebody i could trust. the jeweler has been great, very patient, very helpful, and i think they gave me a good price. i purchased:

3.01 ct Cushion Cut
E color rating
VS2 clarity
VG Polish
G Symetry
Slight Blue Fluroscense
No Cutlets

i purchased the diamond for $25k, thinking i had not just a good deal, but a great deal. i came home only to research the certification company on this forum, only to find nothing but negativity. the firm is EGL. i called the jeweler and let them know i was unhappy going w/ a second tier certification company, and they are more then happy to exchange the diamond for a GIA diamond. (FYI they use EGL in Israel)

but i then researched the search engine on this site, and found several comparable diamonds through EGL, all priced for around $25k or so. so i guess the way i look at it is, if you get an EGL diamond for an EGL price, thats okay. but we dont want to pay GIA money for a EGL diamond. does that make sense? ultimately i can go get a 2.25-2.5ct diamond from GIA for the same price, but do i want a smaller ring so i have a nicer piece of paper? my jeweler (who i know makes money on this) said they believe the specs are very accurate, and they wouldnt have sold it to me if that wasnt the case. we share alot of mutual friends, and my friends have spent several hundred thousand there, so i dont think its worth screwing me over a lousy $25k.

lastly, the jeweler stated they send to EGL for the sole reason they are cheaper, which translates to cheaper prices for their customers. w/ the economy waning, they've had to cut costs for customers to keep the volume up. they said some buy stones w/ EGL, but they buy from a broker then send to EGL for certs. is that normal?

so as i sit here hours after being high as a kite, only to feel like i "cut a corner" i'm open to any and all opinions and advice?

thanks in advance.

TD

 

[Icce]

Here is the number one question? Do u like the diamond (look) compared to the others? I mean if you can''t change much there is no point but to be happy with what you got. You gave me the impression you could change though. Do you have more stats or pictures of this diamond?

"ultimately i can go get a 2.25-2.5ct diamond from GIA for the same price, but do i want a smaller ring so i have a nicer piece of paper? "

It might not only be smaller but better quality. Maybe what EGL says is a E isn''t a E for gia or AGS. But anyways I am sure the colour is fine. I would be more concerned if you like the cut, symerty and polish than the other things you added.

I know nothing about fancy shapes and I am new but that is my opinion. research more on the net and try to compare the stone''s measurements to yours...if the EGL has this stuff listed (angles etc).

 

[neatfreak]

I think there is a simple solution to this. Can you just make the sale contingent on an independent appraisal? If the specs are as EGL states then there is no need for GIA. If they are off then you can negotiate a new price OR pass in favor of GIA. If the dealer is confident then there is no reason for him not to agree to this. Make sure the appraiser ONLY does appraisals and doesn't work for a jeweler, and you pick them.

And please make sure you have seen many cushions before purchasing one...there are a LOT of very poorly cut cushions out there...

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Hey, TD, I''m sure the experts will chime in, I just wanted to tell you to relax a little, it sounds like you did your research and chose a great stone!

First, you chose a cushion, so you really have to judge with your eyes. You love it, right?
Second, you didn''t pay a GIA price for an EGL stone...it sounds like you got a very competitive price, so you should feel good about that
Third, the main reason why EGL stones are not held to the same standard as GIA is that they can sometimes be more lax on color and clarity gradings, but these specs are already great (E, VS2), so you might have a bit more wiggle room than if it was a J SI2, you know? You can''t see any warmth or inclusions, right?
Fourth, you can ALWAYS get it independently appraised if you want, just to see how accurate the grading is (or you can send it to GIA for grading for more $)

It sounds like you chose a great stone, I do think there are some good deals to be had with an EGL stone so long as you are an informed consumer (and it sounds like you are).

 

[MMT]

I agree you should get is appraised. I also wouldn''t worry so much about what the paper says if you love it. You didn''t really say how you felt about the stone, just the paper.

 

[TD220]

thanks everyone for the prompt responses. with as much research as i have done, i'm not expert. and truthfully, dont want to be, i just want to get this damn ring and be done with it, ha ha. in all seriousness, as someone mentioned, EGL gave this an E/VS2 rating, so even if this came back from AGI as a G/SI2, $25k is probably still a good price. I will contact the jeweler and see if I can get an appraisal done while we wait for the setting (10 days) and go from there. thanks for all your help, feel free to continue sharing opinions!

and I do love the stone, it is very clear, i held it up to an "H" color and it had a yellow/brown tint compared to this one. i went w/ more of a rectangular shape. i didnt like that originally, but next to a square cushion, this ring has so much more character and looks HUGE since the table is larger. overall i'm excited, but do want to be 100% confident in my purchase. i'm not the type of guy to cut corners, i buy first rate everything not to brag about it, but i've learned we get what we pay for, and quality is the priority.

TD

 

[partgypsy]

You didn''t mention if it was EGL USA or elsewhere. In the tutorial they actually discuss how the different companies grade on average. EGL USA actually is pretty comparable to GIA but often grades a grade higher in color (and maybe more inconsistent with polish/symmetry grading). So if you compare your stone with 1 lower color grade in GIA you can see if you got a fair deal or not. I''ve heard people say they would not recommend EGL non-USA reports because they are known to be more lax to an unkknown degree in their grading.
Also as it is a cushion non/traditional cut, should go with your gut whether you love the stone or not. It sounds very nice to me.

 

[sparxs111]

Get the stone appraised at an independent appraiser. If it doesn''t match the cert then return it. If it does match keep it. On a diamond that size and price you need to get it appraised for insurance purposes anyway!! Just make sure the store will accept the return if it does not match the cert.

 

[partgypsy]

OK I went back and see that it says EGL Israel. I''m not a diamond expert but I have heard people say that EGL Israel definitely grades looser than say GIA, how much I can''t say. The issue with that is that you are not sure exactly what you are getting so it is difficult to find out if you got a fair price or not.

 

[partgypsy]

Do a search for EGL Israel. Would your seller possibly agree to having it resent for either a AGS, GIA or EGL USA report? If it is the same grade you pay for the report, if not, he takes the stone back.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/3/2008 2:16:46 PM
Author: part gypsy
Do a search for EGL Israel. Would your seller possibly agree to having it resent for either a AGS, GIA or EGL USA report? If it is the same grade you pay for the report, if not, he takes the stone back.

I don''t think that''s necessary...a well done independent appraisal will take care of the issue for less cost and much quicker...

 

[elle_chris]

I just did a search and a GIA Cusion with the same specs and size, prices start at 37,100. So without even going to an independant appraiser, you can pretty much deduct from that, that EGL may have been a little lenient with the grade.

BUT, if you love the stone, and never plan on selling it, the cert shouldn''t matter.

 

[mrssalvo]

I can''t help but think how upset i''d be if my FI traded a perfectly good 3 carat cushion for a smaller one b/c of the paper

seriously though, I like the independent appraiser idea. it does seem you paid a fair price though and it all comes down to whether you like the stone. cushions are tricky and really do need to be seen in person. If you love the stone and are just worried about whether you paid to much or if it is what it was sold to you as, then the appraiser can clear that up for you. also, it''s normal to second guess a major purchase and experience buyers remorse too.

 

[TD220]

how do i find an appraiser thats reliable? how long does it take, cost, etc?

 

[bgray]

we also dont know any of the specs on your stone or what you paid-those are far more important factors than the paper at this point. if you, for example, paid 37,000 for an EGL stone then you most likely overpaid but again--we dont know the cut info --is the depth 68% or 62%? and so on

 

[elle_chris]

You would need an independant appraiser (one who doesn''t buy, sell or recommend). You can look for an appraiser under the "resources" tab for one in your area.

Or if you tell us where you are, maybe someone can recommend one.

 

[TD220]

I am in Chicago.

Here is the full report which i have:

Weight: 3.01
Shape: Cushion Shape
Measurements: 9.23 - 7.69 x 5.17 mm

Proportions
Total Depth: 67.2%
Table Width: 62%
Crown Height: 14%
Pavillion Depth: 50%
Grill Thickness: Slightly Thick, Faceted

Finish
Polish: Very Good
Symetry: Good to Very Good
Culet: None

Clarity Grade: VS2
Graining: Very Slight

Color Grade: E
Fluorescnece: Slight Blue

Comments: None

thanks everyone!

 

[lala2332]

not an expert at all....but this is not an investment. YOu aren''t going to resell it for more.

If you loved the stone, love it no matter what a piece of paper says as long as you weren''t taken on the $, which it sounds like you weren''t. Stop 2nd guessing yourself, and be happy with your purchase.

 

[neatfreak]

Here is a great thread where some appraisers are mentioned that people have had experience with. The appraisal itself will take a few hours at most and shouldn''t cost more than $100-200.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/appraisers-in-chicago.52162/

 

[vespergirl]

I have a 2 ct G SI1 Round Brilliant H&A that is certified by EGL Israel. I bought it from a very well-respected and highly rated B&M in the Washington, DC area who seels EGL, GIA & AGS. The EGL stone was the best deal, and I was able to compare it with GIA & AGS stones side by side, so I am satisfied that it''s a beautifully cut stone, and that the cert is correct.

I think the most important thing is that you''ve seen the stone and it looks beautiful. My choice was between a 2 ct EGL and a 1.5 ct GIA, and I am really glad I chose the larger stone. Your fiancee is going to be showing off the beautiful diamond on her hand, not the piece of paper that comes with it. I think that you paid a fair price, and I would take a 3 ct EGL that looks good under an Idealscope over a 2 ct GIA that looks the same but is more expensive any day of the week.

If you want to see more pics of my stone besides my avatar, you can click my name and that will take you to the history of my threads. I got this diamond in December 2007 so the pics start in threads around that time, if you want to look them up.

If you trust the jeweler and love the stone, I''m sure yourfiance will be happy with it. Can you post some pics?

 

[Sharon101]

Hi, I just wanted to add something here. I have come to believe that diamonds are pretty much priced on their real gradings with no real chances for a consumer to find a `steal`!!!!! So, if you can get a 3 carat for $25000 there is going to be something going on that is guaranteed not to be perfect in colour or grading or cut. To expect otherwise and be dissappointed is unrealistic.

But, the great part is.....most people in the real world dont ever really judge your rock more than summing up its size & looking for a sparkle here and there.

There is a good argument to sometimes go for size even if the other C`s could have been higher. I know by my own experience that my large stone has had people swooning, and its real average in the cut department (but very white in color).

Sometimes when I get upity about wanting a better stone myself, I get a reality check and look at the prices. If you really want a 3 carat thats all that in the paper department, Id say you wouldnt get much change from $50 to $90 thousand dollars.

I bet that once your rock is set, no one would really know the difference.

Its easy to get nervous reading all the info here about cut and grading reports etc. But really, unless you are prepared to really up the budget or even half your carat size, dont sweat it. If your eyes liked it, so will everyone elses.

 

[bgray]

one thing is the shape--not the most sought after shape for a cushion

 

[honey22]

Honestly, how do you think your future FI would feel if she read the title of your post? Or the fact that you just want to ''get the damn ring and be over with it''. I think you have made it clear you are not happy with the ring. Would an appraisal change these feelings? I would just return it, and start again with a Pricescope vendor. If you can''t get a refund straight away, then have the stone appraised, if it comes in different then you have the right for your money back in full.

You need to keep in mind that it''s not going to be a E VS2, it will likely be lower colour and clarity grading, so do a search for G-H colour, S2-I1 stones and then see how the price matches up. We have no idea of the cut quality either.

See how you go, but if you can''t feel happy with the purchase, then contact Mark at Engagement Rings Direct, he will be able to find you a killer cushion. I know that I would feel terrible about my engagement ring if my fiance felt the way you do about it

 

[bgray]

I would recommend Good Old Gold for a cushion--

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Here''s the deal.

With knowledgeable diamond dealers, you almost always get what you pay for, regardless of the paper.

Stones are available at different discounts according to the lab that graded them. That''s because dealers know that a GIA, AGS or HRD stone is accurately graded while an EGL Israel stone is likely off a couple color grades and maybe a clarity grade.

In the end, you usually pay the market price for exactly what you bought.

That means your 3 carat "E/VS2" is probably a stone that would grade out by a first tier lab as a H/VS2, or H/SI1, and be worth every penny of 25 grand.

Just don''t expect it to grade out as an E/VS2 when submitted to a first tier lab or an appraiser who grades as such.

Of course, if you want to avoid all this nonsense, just buy a properly graded stone at the commensurate price. There are no bargains in the EGL-Israel market.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 12/3/2008 8:16:25 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Here''s the deal.

With knowledgeable diamond dealers, you almost always get what you pay for, regardless of the paper.

Stones are available at different discounts according to the lab that graded them. That''s because dealers know that a GIA, AGS or HRD stone is accurately graded while an EGL Israel stone is likely off a couple color grades and maybe a clarity grade.

In the end, you usually pay the market price for exactly what you bought.

That means your 3 carat ''E/VS2'' is probably a stone that would grade out by a first tier lab as a H/VS2, or H/SI1, and be worth every penny of 25 grand.

Just don''t expect it to grade out as an E/VS2 when submitted to a first tier lab or an appraiser who grades as such.

Of course, if you want to avoid all this nonsense, just buy a properly graded stone at the commensurate price. There are no bargains in the EGL-Israel market.

Not to open up a whole can of worms, but this really bugs me. It seems that everyone knows except for the average joe who walks into the store and gets told this damond is an " F VV2" and i''m giving it to you at a great price. It''s a steal! Never saying that hey, it''s cheaper because iEGL Israel over graded it.
Isn''t that fraud?? How does EGL Israel even stay in business and how do jewelers get away with this? The excuse of it''s cheaper to have them grade it doesn''t account for the thousands more a stone of the same stats would cost if graded by GIA.
I just don''t get it.

 

[TD220]

Thanks again everyone for your responses, i greatly appreciate your help. Honey22 - i think you are taking my words out of context, i have put a great deal of time, energy and money into this, and i reserve the right to be frustrated and/or concerned. and if my future wife read this, she would understand, this is still a business transaction.

I have contacted a local appraiser and am getting it checked out next week. if the appraisal report warrants the price, i''ll keep it, if not, it goes back.

this leads me to another question, why wouldnt everyone just get an EGL diamond appraised and pay based on that price? avoid the premium put on GIA diamonds, and the appraisal provides the same comfort, but w/ the EGL "discount?"

lastly, i have the EGL report, but it doesnt state what type of cut the cushion is the chunky or crushed ice look (i forget the technical terms).

thanks again everyone!

 

[honey22]

Date: 12/4/2008 8:58:18 PM
Author: TD220
Thanks again everyone for your responses, i greatly appreciate your help. Honey22 - i think you are taking my words out of context, i have put a great deal of time, energy and money into this, and i reserve the right to be frustrated and/or concerned. and if my future wife read this, she would understand, this is still a business transaction.


I have contacted a local appraiser and am getting it checked out next week. if the appraisal report warrants the price, i''ll keep it, if not, it goes back.


this leads me to another question, why wouldnt everyone just get an EGL diamond appraised and pay based on that price? avoid the premium put on GIA diamonds, and the appraisal provides the same comfort, but w/ the EGL ''discount?''


lastly, i have the EGL report, but it doesnt state what type of cut the cushion is the chunky or crushed ice look (i forget the technical terms).


thanks again everyone!

TDD, I am sorry, I reread my post and I guess I didn''t make myself clear. I absolutely agree with you that you have every right to be frustrated!!! What I was trying to say, is that if you are not 110% happy with your stone, and are not 110% happy in telling your fiance that you are thrilled with the stone you are giving her, then you should return it and keep looking until you are happy. You need to be so resolute on a purchase like this, and it doesn''t matter if you return a few stones, you need to be happy!

I am sorry if you took my post the wrong way, it honestly wasn''t my intention. I hang around here a lot and try to help as much as possible, so I certainly don''t want you to think I was having a go at you. I was trying to point out that you don''t sound like this stone is something you can be proud of and thrilled with, and I have seen many people here regret their choice and I wouldn''t want you to be one of them. That''s also the problem with posting in a forum, you can''t see facial expressions, hear tone etc. Hope we can be friends still

 

[Moh 10]

Imagine if the someone sent the same diamond to several labs and it came back as with weights between 2.7 and 3.01 carat.

Would you tell a buyer, "Oh that doesn't matter. As long as you love it" ?
Of course not.
Everyone would be outraged and the lab would be put out of business, pronto!

Why should color and clarity discrepancies be any more forgivable than weight errors?
After all, they determine the price, just like weight.

This "soft grading thing" is why I would only support the more reputable labs like AGS and GIA.
Next I give a preference to AGS which I see as more consumer-oriented, while GIA seems more industry-friendly.

Diamonds are too expensive to not be sure of what you are getting.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Does EGL provide a plot of the diamond?

I (receiver of the ring) have said many times that I want to just get this stupid ring thing over with. LOL. I understand your frustration.