Kind of a reverse to the idea of LIW

[misscuppycake]

So I love my boyfriend with all my heart and one day hope to spend the rest of my life with him. However, I feel that we are sort of at different places in life right now. A lot of his friends are getting married and most of them didn''t go to school so they have been steadily in whatever job/career that they''ve chosen (mostly trades). My BF is starting to get a bit of the engagement/marriage itch and I think that a large part of it is because he''s seeing it all around him. He says that he hopes to be engaged within the next 2 years.

In all honesty, that''s really just too soon for me (at least at this point). I am still in school and will not be completely finished my teaching degree until August 2009. I am also only 21 and feel very "small" in terms of how I was brought up. I still live with my parents, I can hardly do my own laundry, and I''m still very naive it seems. I grew up in sort of a gated, bubble community and only started learning about the "real world" once I entered university.

Now, my boyfriend does know how I feel about this for the most part but I fear that in a couple years, if he does ask me and I''m not quite ready, how can we possibly continue the relationship if he actually gets down on one knee, proposes, and I have to say "no"? I''m not saying I never want to marry him, just at this point I feel so young still. We talked about this once and he said if I actually said "no", his heart would be so broken he wouldn''t know how to continue on. I was taken aback by that, but I can see how that could easily be true.

Do you think that this will change within a year or two? Some of my friends have suggested that the change from 21 to 23, 24, 25 can be HUGE ones. So I''m sort of banking on that. What do you girls think?

Thanks in advance!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 1/11/2008 7:47:15 PM
Author:misscuppycake
So I love my boyfriend with all my heart and one day hope to spend the rest of my life with him. However, I feel that we are sort of at different places in life right now. A lot of his friends are getting married and most of them didn''t go to school so they have been steadily in whatever job/career that they''ve chosen (mostly trades). My BF is starting to get a bit of the engagement/marriage itch and I think that a large part of it is because he''s seeing it all around him. He says that he hopes to be engaged within the next 2 years.

In all honesty, that''s really just too soon for me (at least at this point). I am still in school and will not be completely finished my teaching degree until August 2009. I am also only 21 and feel very ''small'' in terms of how I was brought up. I still live with my parents, I can hardly do my own laundry, and I''m still very naive it seems. I grew up in sort of a gated, bubble community and only started learning about the ''real world'' once I entered university.

Now, my boyfriend does know how I feel about this for the most part but I fear that in a couple years, if he does ask me and I''m not quite ready, how can we possibly continue the relationship if he actually gets down on one knee, proposes, and I have to say ''no''? I''m not saying I never want to marry him, just at this point I feel so young still. We talked about this once and he said if I actually said ''no'', his heart would be so broken he wouldn''t know how to continue on. I was taken aback by that, but I can see how that could easily be true.

Do you think that this will change within a year or two? Some of my friends have suggested that the change from 21 to 23, 24, 25 can be HUGE ones. So I''m sort of banking on that. What do you girls think?


Thanks in advance!

I wholeheartedly agree with your friends. You will grow and change SO MUCH from 21-25. I would hardly recognize the girl I was then when compared to the woman I am now. I think you are perfectly sensible in waiting for a couple of years to at least become financially stable in your own right before considering marriage. From what I''ve heard you can also change drastically from 25 to 30, but I don''t know that yet.

Here''s a question: Do you think that there is the possibility of him wanting to break up with you if you don''t marry him within a certain time frame?

Honestly, he shouldn''t even ask if he doesn''t know that the answer will be yes. From what you have said, if he asked before he knew without any hesitation that you were ready, then maybe he would be trying to sabotage the relationship.

Regardless, if you feel you''re not ready, then you''re not ready. If he is unwilling to accept this, then perhaps the relationship is not supposed to make it to marriage.

I''ve seen it happen several times to my friends, and while it sucked when it happened, they ended up better off.

 

[mjso]

My boyfriend and I were together for almost 7 years before he proposed. I was 18 when we started dating (met him freshman year of college) and I hated when people would ask us "are you engaged yet" after 3 years of dating. I was 21 and didn''t feel like I was ready, I''d always say "We''re young, we still have a lot of time."

We met in Hawaii and then finished up school in Montana. I am from NJ originally and was brought up very similar to what you describe. I really felt like a child still for a very long time (and in some ways I still do!). In Montana, where he grew up, it seemed like a lot of people got married right out of high school. This was insanity to me. I couldn''t have imagined being married when I was 18, I hardly knew anything about the world, let alone being independent enough to get married.

Then after a few more years together, and moving to Southern California, I started to feel a lot more comfortable with the idea. I definitely agree that probably around 24 is when I finally felt like I was ready. In my case, my FI took even a little longer than I did to feel ready and he proposed when I was 25 (this past christmas).

His parents were soooo happy, they had been waiting for years. My parents were also happy, but I think they also just finally got used to the idea that I might be ready for marriage.

It''s really all up to how you feel. Do you think you could talk to him about a long engagement? If he proposes in 2 years and you still don''t feel ready, maybe you could have a 2 year engagement? Don''t think that just because you are engaged you have to get married right away!

 

[surfgirl]

I think it''s a bit disturbing that your bf has intimated that he "couldn''t go on" if you didn''t accept a proposal in the next couple of years - that just stands out so much to me when reading your post. To me, that sounds like a lame and somewhat passive aggressive attempt to emotionally blackmail you and I hope that I''m misunderstanding that. It sounds very immature as well. You have said you''ve been open with him about how you feel. If he is still saying he wants to be engaged and/or married within the next two years after knowing how you feel, then I''d be concerned that he''s not taking your needs seriously, and that doesn''t bode well for the future. You also say that most people where you live are in blue collar trade jobs, yes? But you''re in college. What does your bf do? Is he also in a trade job now, or is he in college as well. I ask because if you''re in school, looking towards building a career, and he''s in a job that he''s - for lack of a better phrase - fallen into after HS, you may well end up growing in very different directions over the next few years. You asked if there''s a leap in growing up in your 20''s and I''d have to say that there is, especially if one is away at college (which I highly recommend...you''ll learn to do your laundry too!). I''m wondering if you live at home instead of going away to college so you can be closer to your bf? If so, I''d encourage you to reconsider going away to school. You learn so much about yourself at college, and a lot of what we''ve talked about in the "Engagement/Marriage Psychology" thread is related to spreading your wings and discovering who you are in your 20''s and even your 30''s...which is why when someone comes here quite young, posting about marriage, it sometimes is worrying to read. However, as you pointed out in your post, you''re in the opposite position and I applaud you for having the self awareness and the self esteem to know that marriage in the foreseeable future isn''t something you strive towards. I think you need to have a serious talk with you guy and make it clear that you aren''t interested in seriously discussing marriage until your X years old. But you need to also be prepared for him to give you an ultimatum, and you need to be ready to walk, or let him walk, if you cannot agree on the way forward for the immediate future. Just my two cents of course...

 

[Delster]

On this forum we regularly tell women who feel ready to get engaged, but whose boyriends don't, that they need to sit down and have an honest no-holds-barred talk with their boyfriends. They then need to assess whether their boyfriend's timeline (if he has one, obviously) for being ready is one they are happy with. If I have read your post right, then it boils down to this: you think your BF will be ready in two years; you are unsure if you will be ready in two years; and at the moment you feel you will need longer. Like you said in the title of the post, it's kind of the reverse situation!

Can you tell where I'm heading yet?

You need to sit down and have a straight up conversation with him about this. Tell him everything you've told us - how you love him and want to be with him, but that you are unsure if you'll be ready for engagement in two years' time. You should NEVER accept a proposal just to 'keep the peace'. If your deepest instincts tell you that you are not ready, then you are not ready. Make sure he knows not to spring a proposal on you in the next two years or at the end of the next two years because, if he does, you will both get horribly hurt. Of course you should keep communication going on this topic and who knows, in two years you may be telling him to hurry up! Or you may still need more time...

In the end you have to be true to yourself and it is up to him to decide if your timeline is one he is happy with. I would give the same advice to a LIW in the reverse position - find out his true, heartfelt position, and decide if his timeline is one are you happy with.

Good luck, and welcome to Pricescope!

ETA - I think Surfgirl's advice is excellent. I too had the thought of 'how dare he propose when she's said she won't be ready' - it was my first reaction - and then I thought of how many LIWs stress so much over why their BFs aren't ready NOW and so I focussed on the need to present your timeline in a clear way and then let him assess it. If he still goes ahead and wants to propose after you've done that, that is HUGE red flag to me.

 

[rubybeth]

Date: 1/11/2008 8:20:58 PM
Author: Delster

You need to sit down and have a straight up conversation with him about this. Tell him everything you''ve told us - how you love him and want to be with him, but that you are unsure if you''ll be ready for engagement in two years'' time. You should NEVER accept a proposal just to ''keep the peace''. If your deepest instincts tell you that you are not ready, then you are not ready. Make sure he knows not to spring a proposal on you in the next two years or at the end of the next two years because, if he does, you will both get horribly hurt. Of course you should keep communication going on this topic and who knows, in two years you may be telling him to hurry up! Or you may still need more time...

In the end you have to be true to yourself and it is up to him to decide if your timeline is one he is happy with. I would give the same advice to a LIW in the reverse position - find out his true, heartfelt position, and decide if his timeline is one are you happy with.

I agree with Delster, totally. Keep the lines of communication open on this topic, for sure. BF and I talked about marriage quite early in the relationship, and while we both kind of knew that''s where we were headed as long as no major red flags appeared for either of us, it still takes times for both parties to be comfortable and confident in the idea of marrying each other. I wouldn''t say that you should out-and-out deny him from proposing in two years, but let him know that, at this point, two years seems awfully soon. But, you never know, in a year, you may feel that another year of dating would be ''just right'' for your proposal.

Also, I would encourage you to travel! Study abroad if you can (at many schools, the cost is the same as a regular semester''s tuition, plus expenses). If travel doesn''t appeal to you, find something else that will help you feel like you are growing. For me, it was classical voice lessons. Or, if it''s even possible, consider moving out. How you behave when living with the ''rents may be totally different than how you would live when left to your own devices. These things may help you feel more confident that you''re growing into yourself, which may, in turn, change your relationship. Better to grow now, learn about yourself as much as possible, than find yourself trapped in an engagement/marriage that''s not really right for you when you''re in your early 30s. It happens, and it''s happened to some great women I know, and everyone deserves to be happy and to know themselves and love themselves first before loving anyone else.

All right, end of rant. WELCOME to the forum!!

 

[misscuppycake]

WOW! Thank you so much girls. I have been to forums before where no one has even come close to being this insightful! This forum is truly a Godsend.

In any case, so I’ve read what you all have to say and I have a few responses thus far. My bf is definitely not pressuring me or putting ultimatums on me; he just always talks about marriage as though it is right around the corner. He gets very excited about the whole idea and he so desperately wants us to be together in that way. This could have some things to do with the way I was raised.

I am not allowed to sleep over at his house (ever) and vice versa. I am only allowed to see him once a week (we have to sneak around if we want to make it twice a week). I also do not believe in living with someone before I am married. He did not grow up in a lifestyle like this; his couple friends are mostly living together and at the very least, they are allowed to have sleepovers. So I think PART of what it boils down to is just that my boyfriend wishes to see me more and be able to spend a lot more time with me. Our Christmas and summer holidays are things to be treasured.

As for the whole situation with him being in a more “blue collar” world and me being one of those kids that was pushed SUPER hard in school, had to get straight A’s or there were severe punishements, etc. sort of puts a blockade between us. We have managed to fight it at every turn and so far, things have been all right. This was NOT, however, all right with my parents. They do not like him and they don’t want me to be with him: plain and simple. They have quite a hold on me. They are the reason I am not allowed to live on campus at my university; they want me to be here so they can monitor what I do. So it takes me approx. 1.5 hours to get to school every day. They would rather have it this way.

I think I’ve said a lot for now but this is sort of the gist. My boyfriend and I love each other a lot but there is no denying that we’ve had outside forces working against us from the beginning.

 

[surfgirl]

Well, after reading your last post, I wonder if it isn''t being married that your BF is in a hurry for, but just a more normal amount of time spent together? It seems like your parents rules have created a Romeo & Juliet situation and perhaps the only way he sees you spending more time together is to be married. So basically, if I''m reading your post correctly, your parents wont let you live on campus because they think you''ll see your bf more often? Or sleep with him? Have you had a talk with them about this? In fact, it might expose you to other people and you actually might find the "college boy" that it sounds like they''d prefer for you. But keeping you locked up at home? That sounds ridiculous. Unless there''s more to this story that we dont know, your parents rules seem very extreme to me. If, as a young woman, you aren''t allowed to experiment with life and fall down sometimes - and learn to pick yourself up and move on - then keeping you under lock and key is sort of doing a huge dis service to you. IMO. Would your parents consider letting you live on campus if you talked to them? Or what about doing a semester abroad?

 

[Sabine]

I think the advice you got so far has been right on. Your updated response sheds a lot more light onto your situation, and it makes me wonder if your bf sees your situation as clearly as you just explained it since he is IN the situation. But you live at home, you are not "allowed" to live on campus, you are not "allowed" to see your bf more than once a week. These are major signs that you have not taken charge of your own life yet. There''s nothing wrong with that, you are still young, but it just means you have a lot of growing and discovering to do before you will probably be ready to make any permanant life decisions. I also think the suggestions to try living on your own, traveling, and finding ways to discover what you really want out of life are great things to do before you even think about something as permanant as marriage. But I have to say, it worries me to hear that your bf thinks you might be ready soon, or that he thinks marriage is a solution to your life not being controlled by your parents. Your life will be controlled by your parents until YOU decide you are ready to live on your own, and if you let HIM make that decision for you, you won''t actually be discovering what you really want in life.

 

[FrekeChild]

to surfgirl and Sabine. They know what''s up.

I am scared for you. It seems like you have a good head on your shoulders. I agree that your parents are doing you a HUGE disservice by not allowing you to go out and make your own mistakes (hopefully on the smaller scale!) and learn to live your own life. Is your family very conservative and religious? Are you an only child?

My family is liberal in theory while being pretty conservative in practice. I didn''t drink until I was 20, but when I rebelled on my 20th birthday, I really rebelled. I moved in with a boyfriend I had only had for 2 months. I pierced my tongue, my belly button, and had 16 piercings total on my ears. As soon as I was given a taste of freedom and independence, I ran with it. I was an only child for my mom, and the youngest for my dad.

I''m not sure how this is really relevant but I''m hoping that what won''t happen when you''re finally given some freedom is that you don''t run off and get married to this guy. I think that you''d be doing yourself a great disservice if you did. I actually had a friend who got into prescription painkillers (he had medical issues) and ran off to Vegas and got married. At 19. A week later he was seeking a divorce. It was actually pretty funny watching him try to explain to prospective girlfriends that yes he was 20 and yes he had been divorced.

Wow. Tangents all over the place. I swear I had an idea what I was going to say before I started typing.

Basically it comes down to this: You need to finish school, go get a job and move out of your parents house for a few years. Don''t move in with your boyfriend, move out by yourself or perhaps with a couple of girls, the point is to be on your own for a while. Then, around maybe 25, if this guy is still around (and I''m honestly not sure that he will be from all that you''ve said) only THEN she you begin to even consider getting engaged. And thats all a big maybe.

But the biggest thing about this that bothers me is how tightly you''re under your parent''s thumbs. They can''t control you forever, and the degree that they have you at worries me...

 

[misscuppycake]

Yes, my situation with my parents is very extreme. I''m sorry I didn''t mention it in the original post. I have talked all my friends blue in the face about this topic and I accidentally forgot to mention it, assuming it had already been discussed.

Anyway, you''re all right. I do feel like I have a lot of growing up to do. So in a sense, it''s not so much "I don''t feel ready to move to that step in our relationship" so much as "I don''t feel like I''m old enough for that stage in my life". I haven''t seen enough of the world.

As for the questions on my parents "allowing" me to do things. Me not living on campus doesn''t directly have to do with my boyfriend. They just want to be able to monitor my study habits, what I do, how much I party, and they think that I''ll live a much "better" life if they can keep an eye on it. I graduate with my Bachelor of Arts this April. Then I hope to get into the education program in September. This semester really was my last chance to live on campus because the education program is mostly practicum, so I will hopefully be "practicing" at a school closer to my home anyway.

Sigh. So much to think about.

School has been a huge priority in my life for as long as I can remember (since age 9 I guess?). But now that I am graduating and completing so many of my academic goals, it''s time to start looking at my relationship. It''s all coming at me so quickly and sometimes I just feel so lost.

Thanks for listening to my long rants, ladies. This is SUCH a big help.

 

[misscuppycake]

FrekeChild, I''m sorry I don''t know how to quote (anyone wanna teach me? hehe).

But in answer to your questions:

My parents are absolutely NOT religious (however, I happen to be a Christian). I am also not an only child but I am the oldest of two. I really want to get a job and move out; that''s my dream actually. I don''t know how much of a hold my parents will have on me once I''m making a decent salary, but they have told me they do not like the idea of me moving out on my own at ALL. They think that the only reason I should ever move out is if it''s to get married. They think that a combined income is the only way to go and that if I moved out of their house, I''d basically be throwing away money. Sometimes I don''t know how to respond to them.

 

[WTNLVR]

I had a similar situation way back when. I had been with my bf for 7 years. We started dating at 18 right out of HS. I went to college and he went straight to work. I then went to graduate school for 2.5 years. So, he was out of HS for 6.5 years around the time I was graduating from my masters program. I always told him that I wouldn''t want to get married until I was done with school. What I didn''t spell out was that I wouldn''t mind a very long engagement-LOL. I kept wishing every x-mass eve it would be the one-but it never was. Finally, 7 months after I got my graduate degree he proposed on x-mass eve (silly me, I told him that was the only night of the year I wanted a proposal). So, I would just be clear with him if he does propose. You want to marry him, but not until you are done with school. I still was expecting a longer engagement due to other issues, but hubby said he wanted to get married in September. I was a bit freaked at that, but we did and it worked out fine.

 

[princesss]

Date: 1/11/2008 11:13:32 PM
Author: misscuppycake
I don''t know how much of a hold my parents will have on me once I''m making a decent salary, but they have told me they do not like the idea of me moving out on my own at ALL. They think that the only reason I should ever move out is if it''s to get married. They think that a combined income is the only way to go and that if I moved out of their house, I''d basically be throwing away money. Sometimes I don''t know how to respond to them.

Oh goodness. I''d reccomend just saying, "I''m x age, I''m an adult, and I''ll spend my money however I want to." I can''t stress enough how important it is to live on your own. You''ll learn to do things the way YOU want, without having to compromise. At this point in your life, be selfish! It''ll be worth the problems you''ll encounter with your parents, IMHO. You need to learn so much about life (I mean, I''m 21 and I''ve got a TON to learn, too, it''s not just you).

As for your boyfriend, sit him down and talk to him. You''re in a great place: you''re aware of how you feel, and you can obviously explain it easily. Make sure he''s aware that proposing before he knows you are ready will only lead to heartbreak. Don''t feel guilty, either. You are saving a whole lot of hurt feelings and broken hearts by being honest. But definitely talk to him so he understands where you''re coming from, and keep the lines of communication open.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I think that any time you are envisioning making a life change several years off, you really have no idea where life will take you. Your boyfriend saying he wants to be engaged in two years means he envisions the two of you being married in three or four, right? But it also means he''s not ready to be engaged or planning the wedding right now. It''s easy to say that we''d like to travel the world or get a promotion or get married or buy a house in the next several years, but for many people that is more a guess of what you''d like to do than an actual to-the-day plan.

I met my husband when I was 18, and even though most people from my hometown don''t get married until their 30s, our engagement seemed to be perpetually a year or two off in my mind (my roommate thought the same way about her boyfriend -- they broke up sometime around when my husband and I got engaged). I even thought we''d maybe get engaged before senior year so we could get married right after graduation (this was when I was maybe a sophomore because at the time graduation seemed a long way off). And I know DH thought the same thing because Christmas ''98, just after we had started dating, he wrote a message on wrapping paper saying that he wanted to marry me and then sealed it up, saying I could open it maybe the next year or the year after (try, he lost the wrapping paper and didn''t propose for 5 1/2 more years!). In the end we got engaged at almost 24 (me) and 25 (him) and married at 24 and 26. Neither of us was ready before that. If he had actually proposed when I was 21, I think I would have freaked out.

My life philosophy is that you aren''t ready . . . until you are. Yes, you know what the next step in life *should* or is *supposed* to be: engagement, marriage, house, baby . . . So you speculate on when you''d probably do these things. But that doesn''t mean that you must go through with things as sketched out in your mind just because two years prior you thought you''d be ready then.

Since I was younger and since DH had always been the more sure one of the two of us but then had recently gone through an "Uh oh, what if I''m not sure?" phase, I wasn''t pressuring him to get engaged or really thinking about. I was completing my second year of teaching (but my first at a new school and teaching high school) and was focused on that. I had a cookie cutter suburban apartment with the pool and patio and got to watch what I wanted on tv at nights. He got to spend time a couple of years living in the city with guy friends, having horse shoe competitions in the backyard and throwing themed parties. And then one day his dad told him that he really should think about marrying that nice girl who''d stuck with him all these years, and he was all of a sudden ready. We''d both had time to do our own thing and then we decided, yes, let''s do the together thing!

So it''s alright to speculate on what you might do, but I wouldn''t do it too much. I''m 27 so my experience only goes that far, but you definitely do change in your 20s. You drive more conservatively. You become friends with people your parents and grandparents'' ages. You figure out employment and taxes and laundry and what not to put down the garbage disposal. First all of your friends start gaining weight from too much beer, then they seem to all realize at the same time that they need to work out and watch what they eat. All your friends start marrying, buying houses, and in the case of your husband''s friends probably having kids too. I have a friend who''s from a more rural, conservative area, and her friends tended to marry right out of college and then have kids around 25.

In other ways, though, I think your essence is fixed by this point. I''ve been thinking about this because my 22 year old mentee at work is just about the one person my gentle and friendly husband can''t stand. I tried pointing out that she was just 22 to him, but he said, "You didn''t act that way when you were 22!" He had a good point there.

It sounds to me like you want to get some experience living on your own before getting married. I totally recommend that. I lived 2 1/2 years on my own before getting married. That''s not forever, but it was enough to get a taste for it. When my husband is on an overnight trip, sometimes I''m secretly excited that I can wear my pajamas and watch whatever I want on tv, thinking back to my time by myself. But I was also ready for it to end when it did. After the first year or two of teaching you don''t need to spend so much time on it outside of work and the alone time isn''t such a plus.

I had the mother of a teenager whom I tutored in college track me down to invite me the daughter''s wedding as a surprise "This is your life!" guest. The mother and I had gotten close (she was nice enough to do my laundry for me! but in your case it sounds like you''d like some practice doing that on your own!

) and she knew my husband as my then boyfriend. The daughter was getting married right out of college. When I told the mother that I had waited 2.5 years before getting married, she told me she thought it was great that I didn''t rush into it just because I had found the right person in college and wished her daughter would have done the same. I really think it''s one of those things where people don''t look back and say, "Gee, I wish we had gotten married at 23 instead of 25" but they might say the reverse.

So don''t worry too much about it. It''s sweet that your boyfriend is thinking about your future! But saying that in two years he''d like to get engaged -- no one can be certain how they''ll feel in two years. I would just take it as a sweet sentiment and not worry about it until he stops talking in years and starts talking in months. If you''re still not on the same page, then I''d have a discussion about it.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Oh, I just read your posts about your parents.

I understand living with them while you are in school, especially if they are paying for some or all of it.

But once you have a full-time job, don't let their disappointment stop you from doing what you want. That's part of growing up. I went to a university that disappointed my father (I turned down acceptance at the Ivy league school where he teaches to go to a regionally-admired smaller school that I liked more). He thought I was being an idiot. Maybe I was. But after a colleague of his pointed out that the two of them had gone to no-name schools and were now teaching at the number one ranked school in their field, he let me go. And paid for it. (Thanks Dad!)

Really, your parents aren't doing you any favors if they're trying to turn you into a trained poodle who will never make it on her own. My apartment complex was quite safe, the rent was entirely doable on my teacher's salary (and you can always get a roommate if prices are high in your area), and I really got a satisfaction out of doing things on my own. I am so glad that I was able to prove myself in the real world before I joined households with my husband. Like many guys his age, he wasn't very good with cleaning or finances or things of that nature. It was useful for me to know how things could be done before seeing how he was doing them (or neglecting to do them). And if you have your own place, then how much time your boyfriend spends with you will be your business, not your parents', and you won't wonder if wanting to see you more is creating this false sense of urgency to get married ASAP for your boyfriend.

There are always those moments when you have cut the ties. I still remember when, at 19, I informed my father that I would be calling him "Dad" instead of "Daddy," and there was this pathetic begging and pleading on both of my parents' parts. Sometimes their recommendations for you are based on their own emotions, not what is actually right for you at the moment. So suck it up, endure their disappointment, and get your own place (once you can afford it) if that's what you want to do!

 

[chocolatefudge]

Poor you Miss Cuppy Cake I really feel for you. It must be extremely hard copiong with your parent''s demands and not really having a choice while you are living with them.
I am afriad that you may look back at this period of your life and resent your parents for taking away your choices and making you miss out on so much. You will never get this time back and it seems so unfair that your parents can control you to such an extent!

I can understand why your bf would want you to get married so that you could live together BUT are you sure that you could live together? If you only see each other once a week I wonder whether you know that you could live together? Do you know that you could spend a lot of time together successfully?

Wht I gained from your post was a young woman crying out for some independence and feeling like she needs to "grow up." I hope your parents will let you.

Good luck hon x x x x x

 

[surfgirl]

So, I was reading the more recent replies to your post and it reminded me of a girl I was good friends with in HS. We got to be better friends after graduation and she was a couple of years younger than I was. Oldest child and her next sibling was a toddler. Parents very conservative and very over protective. So L and I went into NYC one day (we lived/grew up about an hour outside the city) to look at apt's, and we'd decided we would try to get a cheap place and be roomies for a while. She had a plan and was SO excited. We found a place that would be okay, and when she told her parents of her plan, they told here there was NO WAY she was moving out, and no way she was moving to NYC either. I lost touch with L because I continued to grow as a person, experiencing life, and she was under lock and key of her parents. Fast forward to two years ago and I get an email from her totally out of the blue! Mind you, we hadn't been in contact for about 25 years. Turns out, she has had the saddest sack of a life. Because her parents were so ridiculously strict with her, she ended up marrying the first guy that asked her, just to get out of the house finally! That was a horrible marriage, he was abusive and terrible and she finally left him, but not without having one kid with him. She got re-married pretty fast, and has a new husband and 2-3 kids. Now her oldest daughter (from the 1st marriage) is very much a troubled teen and always running away and getting into trouble. What I'm getting at is that L lived under her parents thumbs for so long that it forced her into a situation that really wasted a big portion of her life and damaged her emotionally. And now that she's remarried, she still doesn't seem okay, and I suspect her parenting skills are overly permissive because she was raised under such strict conditions. And now her child is dealing with serious issues because I dont think she knows how to parent. And she never was able to really live on her own and grow into her own person. She's such a sad situation that I honestly couldn't continue to keep in touch with her. It was just way too depressing. Every email had more and more crap in it and it was too much to deal with for me. But I feel for her and I'd like to slap the smile right off both her parents because I think they're totally to blame for how her life turned out.

SO...moral of the story is MissCupCake, DONT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU. Start making your getaway plan NOW. Are there a couple of nice, solid girls that you can get a place with after you graduate? Find stable, responsible, non partying roomies. It will be a great stepping stone for you. I wouldn't get a place by yourself yet because it's a huge responsibility and you dont want to fail and have to move back home, right? So start lining up good, solid roomies and you wont have to deal with huge monthly expenses. Set a budget for yourself and start putting money away and also investing when you start your first job. Dont wait! Start young so you'll have your own money and your own future and you wont have to settle or depend on a man or your parents to make it in life.

 

[Independent Gal]

Honey, you sound like a bright young woman. I hope you'll take Surfgirl's warning seriously. You CAN escape without running into someone's arms, if you know what I mean. It's a common and very sad mistake and I hope you won't make it. Once you're done school and no longer reliant on your parents for financial help, run! RUN and go chase life before life catches up with you from behind. Earn your own keep. Make your own decisions. Have your own experiences.

I know people are ready for marriage at different ages, but you sound like you WANT to experience a lot on your own and grow and mature more before you settle down. And I was just exactly like you when I was your age, and all I can say is, the last ten years of my life have been so exciting adventurous wonderful and beyond description that I can't recommend being an independent woman highly enough, for however long that suits you. Life can be more than you ever imagined if you actively seek it out. Then, when you feel ready, you'll feel ready, and then you can settle down.

But don't cheat yourself out of independence, experience, and taking your time to 'mature', having adventure and a life of rich experience for a while if that's what you're craving. Even if you only do that for a couple of years.

It's a very, very good thing to be the age that you are. There is no sense trying to be older or trying to force yourself to be ready for things you don't feel ready for. You have the rest of your life to be older than you are now.

Being your own age is a very mature thing to be. So good for you.

Don't marry that boy if you don't feel ready! You'll regret it for the rest of your life. Just make sure he knows you're not ready and tell him you'll give him a signal when you are. I actually did that with my now FI (although I only needed a couple of extra months!) and he totally understood.

 

[misscuppycake]

Ah ladies, your advice has been so helpful I could cry! I very much agree with the suggestions about living on my own very soon and I have been looking into it. I will hopefully be employed as a teacher by September 2009 so I have big hopes for that year! I''ve had these talks with my boyfriend and I know that deep down inside, he does in fact hear where I''m coming from but sometimes he just gets it in his head that he''s going to be the one to "rescue me from my insane parents" and so on, so forth. We both get that way sometimes but in the end, I know my head is on straight and that I do not want to be married or engaged yet. This advice is just so good, I don''t want it to ever stop! hehe. Thanks for all your kind words

 

[ringster]

MissCuppyCake, your posts in this thread hit so close to home for me. I was having flashbacks. You''ve gotten lots of great advice here esp Surfgirl and IndyGirl. I think you are very aware of yourself and what you want from life which is great.

I''ll just share my experience and maybe it will help you:

I grew up in a very strict environment as well. I am the oldest girl in my family and my parents were well meaning but super strict - like, can''t even go to a friend''s house for a sleep over birthday party strict - even in high school! I pretty much went to school and came home. I was always the good girl. I never wanted to cause them problems so i obeyed them.

Come college, I wanted to go to a school out of state but they wanted me to go local even though the out of state college was a better one. I was extremely extremely upset but I went along with it because they were paying for college and I couldn''t see a way out of it. I asked them if I could live on campus. They said no. So I lived at home, went to school and felt very trapped and helpless and down. Luckily, one of my mom''s friends said to her that I seemed depressed and that my mom needed to let me go. I''m so grateful for that friend of hers and also grateful that my mom listened to what her friend said. My parents let me move into student housing the next year. Although, i still had to come home every weekend but I felt so free and I never looked back!

I have done so many things since then and grown so much. I eventually transferred out of state for college. It was a very reputable college so my parents were willing to let me go. After I finished college they expected that I would move back home. No way was I going to go back! I moved to the city (san francisco) and lived in a studio with a friend. It was wonderful! A lot of people thought we were weird or a couple (lol!) because we lived in a studio but we didn''t care. It was cheap and we were hardly ever at home anyway.

I decided that i would not take any money from my parents so that I would not be beholden to them. I think this is very important policy to adopt if you have controlling parents. They just can''t help themselves sometimes, my parents generally meant well, so you have to be the one to stick to your guns and guide them.

As long as i was no longer using my parent''s money then I felt that they could not dictate what I did. Sometimes I would not tell them something until after I''d done it. When I opened up a small business, I did not tell them what I was doing until the day before I opened. In those days, it was a matter of knowing that they probably weren''t going to be happy with the decisions I was making and so I just had to expect and accept that I would have a difficult conversation or negative reaction and I had the choice to tell them or not.

It was sad when I didn''t tell them things but if they could not be a constructive part of my life then unfortunately for them they would miss out on me sharing important parts of my life with them. They learned how to interact with me in a way that they don''t with my siblings because I am the only one who doesn''t "do the dance" with them. I had to tell my dad when I decided that i was going to move into an apartment off campus with my friend that I was not having a discussion with him about it, I was doing it. I had a part time job and said that I would use that money to pay for it.

and I actually think they respect me more for standing up for myself and determining my own path. They just gave me the sweetest birthday card the other day and one of the lines was about how they were proud I''ve become such an independent woman.

You definitely will grow and change once you get out on your own two feet. And you owe yourself and your BF the time to grow and find out who you are. As long as you make it clear to your BF what you''ve expressed here about not feeling you will know for a couple of years and that you don''t know what the future holds then he can decide for himself if he can wait to have the marriage conversation until then. I don''t think it is a good sign if he proposes when you have told him that you are not ready.

I also have some personal experience re : your concern about how your BF will cope if things do end (not that I am saying they will and I hope that you can grow together).

In my 20s, I dated someone for several years (my 2nd boyfriend but longest relationship besides my current one) but I realized after awhile that he wasn''t the one for me. However, I couldn''t break up with him because I felt he loved and cared about me so much and would be devastated if I left. We even talked seriously about marriage.

Then one day I just broke down and cried in front of one of my good friends. These were tears of deep deep sadness because I realized that in 5 years or so I would really regret having married him and I would be very resentful of him. I also began to realize that it was egotistical of me to think that someone would be so devastated if I left them. Breakups are never easy and that is just a fact. It is hard for both parties as it should be if you care about each other. But people pick themselves up and they move on and you can''t be responsible for how they react. My ex deserved to be with someone who truly loved him and if I didn''t truly want to be with him then I shouldn''t be with him.

I''m currently engaged to a guy that is such a great match for me - the me that I''ve become and I''m very grateful for the journey that I took to get to this point in my life. I was like you in that I felt that I needed to be ok with myself and my career before I could really feel comfortable considering something as serious as marriage with anyone. I accomplished these goals and so I feel very "right" about where I am now and about my guy and our future plans. I feel all of me is available now to contribute to a marriage and because I know myself I know what kind of partner in life I want to be with.

I wish you the best MissCuppyCake and hope my long ramble helps in some way. Welcome to PS