Looking for some honest opinions...LONG POST

[jenmarie]

This is my first post, so I guess I''m delurking.

Here''s some background on my situation. My BF and I have been together for four years. We''re both 23. We tend to have a pretty great relationship, when we''re not talking about marriage. It''s always been that way, since very early on in our relationship. I was sure I wanted to marry him very early on.

Nearly every time marriage has come up, it has turned into a fight. It used to be about his wanting to wait until we were 26 to get engaged. At the time, we were 19, and that seemed so far away. It always hurt me to think that I wanted to marry him as soon as it was possible and he wanted to base his life on an age he came up with. Don''t get me wrong, I know now and I knew then that we weren''t ready to get married back then! ASAP meant when we were ready financially and more mature.

He''s done with his undergrad degree, working full time, and has been for a year now. He''s taking one class for his MA.

We had one breakthrough about a month ago. We sort of re-evaluated our whole relationship, and things were starting to feel better than they had for years. On a whim, I was looking at a calendar trying to see when would be a good time for us to get married. 2010 seemed out of the question, partly because I had been picturing getting married in February, my birthday month. 2011 was out because we didn''t really care for the way the 11 looked (dumb, I know). So I got to 2012, and amazingly enough, my birthday (my 26th, go figure) falls on a Friday that year. I showed him, and he actually gasped, and said that it was perfect. The next day, he even talked about who we would invite and stuff like that. He even went home and made a GUEST LIST. I was thrilled because it was the first time he''d ever shown any interest in marrying me in more than a "someday" kind of thing.

That was all great, but as soon as I''d mention anything about engagement or engagement rings he''d quickly change the subject. I mentioned that I''d like to go to a jewelry store to look at rings, to see what would look good on me, what was within his price range, etc. He acted like it was a good idea, but never followed through. We had discussed getting engaged sometime within the next year. Admittedly, I don''t know much about the amount of time it would take to make the ring I would want, but I know that he couldn''t just walk into a store and buy something either. I wanted him to know, for when he was ready.

Am I wrong for being upset that he was so willing to plan a wedding and not willing to figure out engagement things? I''ve told him that a ring isn''t what''s important to me, but he''s told me that he would never get married without being engaged, and he''d never propose without a ring. Like many other LIWs (if that''s even what I am), I get frustrated when I find out seemingly everyone I''ve ever known has gotten engaged. I also think that if a guy wants to get married, he does what he needs to do to make it happen. I''m just wondering if I''m being a jerk for expecting some kind of reassurance from him.

 

[bubbly1126]

First off, welcome!

Secondly, is it possible that he doesn't want to talk about engagement because he wants it to be a total surprise? I know that was/is the case for A LOT of us who have or ever been a LIW. At the time, of course, it always seemed to us that they just weren't interested but I think for most of us, we found out after the engagement (or even before) that he really just wanted it to be a HUGE surprise.

I find it odd that he'll talk about the wedding but not engagement... so that is what makes me think he's just trying to throw you off...?

In any case, hang in there, I'm sure it will happen when the time is right. And in the mean time, we're all here for you!

ETA: Maybe I missed it in the post, but you talked about when to get married... but have you actually ASKED him when he thinks he would propose or how long before marriage he would want to be engaged??

 

[jenmarie]

His "deadline" for proposal was supposed to be next August. I'm 99% sure it's not about surprising me. I wish that was the case!

One of my friends got engaged in December. We were hanging out with her and her FI, and she had pulled me into the bathroom to tell me about her dress and veil so he wouldn't hear. Supposedly, when she did that, her FI told my BF that he was smart for putting it off because he had spent so much money on her ring and couldn't afford to do anything for a long time. Same thing happened at my cousin's wedding back in May. Some of my grandparents' friends asked us about when we thought we'd get married and when he told them not for a while, they all but applauded him. He looks for that kind of support from people as a reason to put it off even longer.

Part of me thinks he got excited about the wedding planning because he wants to have a big fancy party, and that it's not about marrying me. I know I sound super cynical, but I just feel really disappointed.

ETA: Thanks for the welcome!

 

[bubbly1126]

Date: 9/6/2009 2:48:46 PM
Author: jenmarie
His ''deadline'' for proposal was supposed to be next August. I''m 99% sure it''s not about surprising me. I wish that was the case!


One of my friends got engaged in December. We were hanging out with her and her FI, and she had pulled me into the bathroom to tell me about her dress and veil so he wouldn''t hear. Supposedly, when she did that, her FI told my BF that he was smart for putting it off because he had spent so much money on her ring and couldn''t afford to do anything for a long time. Same thing happened at my cousin''s wedding back in May. Some of my grandparents'' friends asked us about when we thought we''d get married and when he told them not for a while, they all but applauded him. He looks for that kind of support from people as a reason to put it off even longer.


Part of me thinks he got excited about the wedding planning because he wants to have a big fancy party, and that it''s not about marrying me. I know I sound super cynical, but I just feel really disappointed.


ETA: Thanks for the welcome!

I would straight out talk to him then. Ask him why he never wants to talk about getting engaged. The only way to get to the bottom of it all is to talk... and if he refuses to talk about it at all then I would reevaluate your relationship and where exactly it is going. Are you willing to wait as long as possible for him? Or do you have your own timeline that you don''t want to veer away from? You two have got to come to a compromise or move on, you know?

 

[neatfreak]

You want honest so here goes...

He's not ready. Period. And if you keep pushing him (no matter how subtly-every time you mention it is pushing) he will continue to drift away.

How do you distract yourself? Go out and get a life! Now I don't mean that meanly-I mean that as go join a club, get a new hobby, go out with the girls, etc. When he sees how much fun you are having without him he'll likely be like "what the heck was I thinking? Of COURSE I want to marry this girl!" and get a move on. But in order for him to want to do that you need to stop being the nag who is always bothering him about marriage and show him how much fun you are again.

And if he doesn't come around then you will likely realize that there is a whole new world of stuff for you to do out there and be happier anyway. Win win.

I hope you will take this as I meant it. I simply mean to say that you need to go have some fun and stop being obsessed about getting married. You're young and have plenty of time. Just because he might not be ready NOW doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love you or doesn't want to marry you. Just that he isn't ready.

And only YOU can decide how long you want to wait. Give yourself an internal deadline if you need to-and if he doesn't propose by then you can say see you later to him. But unfortunately men just aren't always on the same timeline as women and it might take him a few more years to be ready. Until he decides he is ready you can't do anything about it unfortunately.

 

[HopeDream]

Hi Jenmarie,

Welcome to PS, feel free to add yourself to the LIW list.

Congrats on the marriage talk breakthrough - definitely a positive sign!

Big ditto to what Inhisarms 17 and Neatfreak have said.

As you may have already guessed guys just take longer (sometimes much longer) to feel like settling down - often not until their late 20s - early30''s, so 23 is still pretty young (in my opinion) for a guy to be ready for marriage. Making a guest list shows that he''s staring to get used to the idea. The time cushion of "not till 2012" will give him some breathing room, and help him not feel trapped. Often folks plan on a 1 year (or so ) engagement so that puts proposal time around Feb 2011, which is still a year and a bit away

If your future engagement is still a while away, maybe give him some more time, and bring it up again 6 months or so before the possible engagement time (August 2010 sh) (expect a custom ring to take about 3 months to make).

A number of times I''ve read about guys who aren''t ready to get married placating their girlfriends with rings and weddings just to make her happy, and then later they divorce because he wasn''t truly happy about the whole situation.

As for the whole engagement ring thing well....it''s a delicate dance.

I wonder about the money angle of it.

Engagement rings are fairly pricey ($2000- $ky''s the limit) so if your boy has just done some elementary research he may still be reeling from the sticker shock. He may worry that you willl go browsing and falll in love with something way out of his price range - and he doesn''t want to dissapoint you.

He may feel paralyzed by quite a limited budget (especialy at only 23) - You could always float the idea of upgrading by him, and see how he feels about proposing with a small diamond now and upgrading your ring at a later anniversary.
[on PS when you see gals getting Big Fancy Enegagement Rings, usualy this is because the couple is aroud their thirties and already established in their careers, or the rings are financed up the wazoo].

On the other hand, he may already have a ring/ proposal in mind and is worried that any communication on the subject with you will ruin the surprise.

Men are frustraiting at times and I don''t think it''s unreasonable to talk engagement rings if you''ve already talked about a guest list. Just be super patient and try not to overwhelm him. It can be especially challenging to be patient when it seema like everyone else is getting engaged, but know that not rushing into engagement can make for a stronger relationship in the future.

Hang in there and feel free to tell us your woes and live vicariously through our adventures!

cheers
HD

 

[HollyS]

My DH did a lot of vague discussing of the future in terms of ''when we''re married''. And then didn''t propose. Year after year.

He had issues. I was willing to wait, up to a point. I could elaborate, but it boils down to that.

Your BF has issues. The first step is knowing exactly what they are, and then deciding for yourself if those issues are deal breakers or just a bump in the road. None of us could possibly tell you what to do, since we don''t know you or him.

But I will say this: NEVER listen to anyone about how long is too long to wait for the person you love to make a commitment. Everybody is different, everybody is unique. There is no set rule. If he''s jerking you around, you already know it. If he isn''t, then you deal with the problem your way, in your own time.

 

[bubbly1126]

Date: 9/6/2009 3:20:54 PM
Author: HollyS
My DH did a lot of vague discussing of the future in terms of ''when we''re married''. And then didn''t propose. Year after year.


He had issues. I was willing to wait, up to a point. I could elaborate, but it boils down to that.


Your BF has issues. The first step is knowing exactly what they are, and then deciding for yourself if those issues are deal breakers or just a bump in the road. None of us could possibly tell you what to do, since we don''t know you or him.


But I will say this: NEVER listen to anyone about how long is too long to wait for the person you love to make a commitment. Everybody is different, everybody is unique. There is no set rule. If he''s jerking you around, you already know it. If he isn''t, then you deal with the problem your way, in your own time.

Fully agree 100%!

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Welcome!

When I first posted here, my situation was very similar (the whole hot/cold thing). I couldn''t understand why he was keen one minute and offish the next.
It''s still like that at times. I know now that it means he''s not ready.
I don''t really bring it up ever anymore. I have recently focused more on my own life, and preparing for the possibility that he may never propose by making sure I have a "single girl" life plan. I have a reasonable deadline in my head (reasonable in terms of age, finances, education etc) for the proposal (2011) and if he goes over that deadline and doesn''t propose by the end of 2011 I know he''s never going to (because then the problem wouldn''t be that he''s not ready to get married, just that he''s not ready to marry ME) and I''ll be tired of being strung along.
Before you think I''m nuts, you should know that I find it very hard to trust and I''m terrified of getting hurt, so I generally expect the worst so as to avoid nasty surprises.

Maybe you could try to do something similar in your life. The change of mindset has really helped me.
Good luck!

 

[LilyKat]

Date: 9/6/2009 3:04:55 PM
Author: neatfreak
You want honest so here goes...


He''s not ready. Period. And if you keep pushing him (no matter how subtly-every time you mention it is pushing) he will continue to drift away.


How do you distract yourself? Go out and get a life! Now I don''t mean that meanly-I mean that as go join a club, get a new hobby, go out with the girls, etc. When he sees how much fun you are having without him he''ll likely be like ''what the heck was I thinking? Of COURSE I want to marry this girl!'' and get a move on. But in order for him to want to do that you need to stop being the nag who is always bothering him about marriage and show him how much fun you are again.


And if he doesn''t come around then you will likely realize that there is a whole new world of stuff for you to do out there and be happier anyway. Win win.


I hope you will take this as I meant it. I simply mean to say that you need to go have some fun and stop being obsessed about getting married. You''re young and have plenty of time. Just because he might not be ready NOW doesn''t necessarily mean he doesn''t love you or doesn''t want to marry you. Just that he isn''t ready.


And only YOU can decide how long you want to wait. Give yourself an internal deadline if you need to-and if he doesn''t propose by then you can say see you later to him. But unfortunately men just aren''t always on the same timeline as women and it might take him a few more years to be ready. Until he decides he is ready you can''t do anything about it unfortunately.

Big ditto to all of this.

23 is young for anyone to get engaged or to plan on getting engaged, objectively speaking, but it''s especially young for men. Some men are ready at this age, but most aren''t. He''s just not ready right now. He may not be for some time. It sounds like his day of excitement at the calendar was him getting carried away by it all, and then he regretted it. You''re right in saying that if he wanted to make it happen, he would do so.

I''ve no doubt he loves you and wants to marry you "someday". How long you choose to wait is up to you. Would you rather break up with him and find someone else (perhaps a few years older, and ready for marriage) who is on the same timeline as you? Or do you love him enough to stick it out for perhaps a few more years, with no guarantees at the end? Only you can answer that question.

But if you do decide to stick it out, you should absolutely take neatfreak''s advice about getting busy and having fun, if you want to maintain your sanity and avoid pushing him away.

 

[merrymunky]

Everyone else has already given good advice here but I just wanted to add my two pennie's worth from a personal point of view.

My husband and I have been together for almost 8 years. We got engaged after 2 years. Over the next five years I raised the marriage topic many times and it always ended with me very upset because he would put it off and make excuses. I nagged and nagged and it only made things worse. I was miserable and felt unloved.

Then one day earlier this year during another, more relaxed chat about it, he suddenly declared that he wanted to set the date and here we are just over 6 months later, a happily married couple.

I put SO much pressure on him that it made him recoil and rebel even more. Deep down I knew he wanted to marry me, heck, he put a ring on my finger. But he wasn't quite ready for the next step. We are both young in our outlook on life. I am 29 and he is 32.

To be honest, I couldn't imagine us married any younger despite having been together for so long. We got to the point where we were both on the same page and both ready and I wouldn't have it any other way. I just wish I had saved some arguments and upset in the run up by NOT going on and on and on about it to him. I could easily have pushed him over the edge and lost the relationship completely.

I think you should try not thinking about it as much. He obviously has an interest in marrying you, he has stated so. But sometimes men just need a lot more time to reach the point where they were totally comfortable with jumping in with both feet. Check out our wedding pictures in BWW and you can see how happy he looks!