lost stone from Niessing tension ring

[nemod]

I bought Niessen platinum tensions ring with 1.01 carat excellent rated diamond in early 2002 for my wife. Till last weekend everything was ok - but last weekend, when we were in the theatre the diamond "felt out" and we lost it somewhere. At the first moment we were shocked and after that, when about 12 people try to find the diamond and we didn’t succeed my wife became said and I''m very confused and disappointed.

When I bought the ring Niessen Company claimed that there is no chance that diamond could be lost and within I believe Niessing gave me a lifetime warranty and guarantee that the diamond will not be lost. I paid for the ring €3,500 and for the stone €10,000 and today I have very unhappy and said wife, ring without the near perfect stone and the feeling that something is wrong here.

I contacted Niessing and they replied as:
"The examination of the ring did not show any evidence of a fault in material or workmanship. But there are clear
marks on the ring indicating that the ring was subject to a hard stroke or hit from outside which led to the loss
of the diamond, i.e. an impact that normally does not occur with the regular daily wear and tear.
As a result Niessing cannot assume any responsibility for the loss of the diamond".

I was shocked, first because if really hard stroke or hit from outside results realizing the stone from the tension then my wife certainly felt it as well, but we were in the theatre and nothing special happened.

Is there anyone out there who could be so kind and please advise me what to do.

Domen

 

[Diamondsbybree]

Get a lawyer~!

 

[luvmysparklies]

D*mn right get a lawyer!

You have a guaranty and now, because they don't want to honor it YOUR WIFE banged the ring? What's to say they didn't "bang" it themselves just to put more that usual wear and tear evidence on the ring - just to get out of paying?

Luv

 

[nemod]

THANKS, do you know any case like this one?

 

[finerthings]

Sorry that this happened to you guys. I can imagine your wife must be heartsick. Did you have it insured? If you can't resolve it with the Neissen Company at least you are covered by your insurance policy, less deductible of course.

 

[oldminer]

I never heard of this happening before, but you sound like you really may have a case. If you and your wife have an impeccable background, no losses on other insurance, no fraud problems, no bankruptcy history, etc, then get the lawyer and sue them. Get a jury and I would think you'd have a very fair chance of getting a settlement. If you have "issues" in your backgrounds, then prepare to end up defending your reputation. It could be very painful.

The rub is, at least in the USA, you will find it very costly to pursue your case. You may feel you can afford it, but many can't.

I wish people considering tension set rings could always read this thread. I love the look but think there is no way to properly secure the diamond from inadvertent loss. You are the poster children for this. Sorry it had to be you. If Niessing was my company, I'd make good on the claim and forget about it. Bad publicity is very costly.

One must keep in mind that we only have one side of the story here. In all fairness, there is almost always an opposite point of view. We may not ever get it here, but please don't decide a case based solely on one viewpoint.

 

[nemod]

we're from Europe, Slovenia. there is not normal policy for insurance company to insure the diamond ring.

 

[coreyzat]

Just send the "angry" emoticon to them and they'll know you mean business. They'll refund your money right away.

All joking aside, I'd read the guarantee very carefully. If it has something like "normal wear and tear" or "under normal circumstances" in it then you might be in for a court battle. I'd still pursue the court battle, but it's definitely a factor.

 

[nemod]

Dear Mr.David

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree with you that is always an opposite point of view. Believe me, this is /was/ engagement ring for my wife, I spent more then a year to find out all aspects of tension rings and diamonds at all. First I wanted to buy smaller stone app 0.3 - 0.5 carat and rated between good to very good. Then they found out for me excellent t stone of 1.01 carat and I was still afraid of buying it. But both, jeweler and the Niesseing, convinced me that the stone is perfect, the ring is perfect and save. I must say that we have impeccable background, no losses or other insurance, no fraud problems, no bankruptcy history; my wife is professor at the University in Zagreb and I own two companies with very good business. We have two kids, own house and many more. I'm not talking about the money in the first place - engagement ring is something special, for women and for a man. I see in this ring connection between my wife and me /for us she is the stone and tension ring is me metaforique speaking.

I'm talking about the ignorance of Niessing, about our feelings on the moment when we realized the stone is missing. On first days when I gave the ring to my wife se was afraid to wear the ring and I convinced her that it's safe because I believe the claim Niessing gave to me.

If nothing else I wish people considering tension set rings could always read this thread and if possible get insured their tension ring and the stone.
Best regards
Domen

 

[oldminer]

Domen:

You and your wife sound like exactly the right sort of people to pursue a claim agaisnt a company for the loss of a stone under the warranty the manufacturer makes. I certainly understand how important a diamond gift may be, and not just for the money, but for the sentimental value of the gift. We can understand the reasonable nature of how you are taking this loss. You should be compensated, it would appear.

I sure hope you will pursue your claim and keep us informed.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Hey Dave

How common is this? Is the frequency such that insurance rates for these "compression" settings are higher than for "normal" settings? From what I understand Kretchmer is the priciest. Are his settings the most secure? How's a consumer to judge?

R/A

 

[icelady]

I guess this is why I have not wanted to take the chance on a tension setting.

I had an insurance issue that I had to pursue quite dilligently. The insurance company in my case, upon receiving my ring for inspection, (it was a case of damage) decided to loosen prongs, turn the diamond and then buff and polish out every bit of damage on the gold WITHOUT my permission. They then initially declined my claim saying that it was normal wear and tear. It had dropped 2 clarity grades, and they tried to say it was normal wear and tear! When I started asking them who protects the consumer from fraud by the insurance company, and let them know I was not going away, they paid the claim.

Sometimes you just have to be clear, firm, and persistant. In this case maybe you will need to sue them, but I would exhaust other possibilities first.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[valeria101]

Since your wife's hand was not injured when the diamond was lost - that sounds like "normal wear" to me. I can only hope that Slovenia has a vastly better legal system than Romania... there would clearly be no recourse available here at all.

 

[Niessing]

Dear Nemod,

sad story, indeed.

We know that buying an expensive ring (especially an engagement ring) is something very emotional. This makes it even worse when such a ring is damaged, lost or destroyed by what ever reason. This is why we understand the emotional reaction and anger of you and some of the other quoters.

Niessing invented the tension setting 25 years ago. We CAN say that our tension setting is very secure and the diamond is fixed safely under all normal circumstances Even regarding that a ring is very much a product which has to overcome influences from the outside because our hands are touching things thousands and thouthand times in a lifetime (normally you can see dents, scratches or little damages on the surface of a ring). There is almost no other product which is worn almost daily and for decades like an engagement or wedding ring. This is one reason why it is impossible for a jewelry-makers to give lifetime-warranties. Niessing does not tell this or predict such a warranty. Who has told you that?

What Niessing IS doing: We are offering excellent quality. We customize every single ring. We are checking the tension of every single ring, we keep this information and can still find these measurements even after years. Every ring has an Identity-number which makes is easy to find all data of production etc.

Whenever a problem occurs (which really does not happen often), we check the ring or damaged piece individually and than tell what we would suggest. We don't charge high prices for service. Either we would make service without cost (if we would have made a mistake) or we would make an offer for repairing or replacement by charging only parts of our "naked" costs (depending on the special matter). It is not interesting for us whether a ring is only a few months or e.g. 20 years old. We don't make extra money with problems of our customers!

Regarding your special problem: Every Diamondring can be damaged or destroyed under special or accidential circumstances. Imagine: A ring falls on concrete-floor..., a ring is squeezed by a door... a child is hammering or slamming with a ring etc etc. A diamond-setting may break or get loose, a diamond may receive damages (diamond is hard but may crack like glass!) by this kind of influences. This is why Niessing can not give a guarantee "for everything" - because we do not have an influence on how our customers treat or mistreat jewelry or which accidents may happen.

What we guess in your special case is: You said, you and your wife had been in a theatre. You will have clapped your hands(!?) Your wife may have worn a second ring on the opposite hand of the tension ring(?) Handclapping, maybe several minutes? Please don't understand us wrong, it is just a guess but it seems to us that this may have caused the loss of the stone. But: this is not a special problem for tension (or Niessing-) settings! Handclapping is a tough and powerful movement (just whatch your red hands after a few minutes of applause) and this power is able to damage all sorts of rings or even diamonds.

What we would like to suggest: Please tell us the jeweler where you have bought the ring. Please have it sent to us one more time. We are very much interested in a solution of your problem where both sides can live with.

Niessing

 

[icelady]

----------------
On 7/27/2004 9:41:16 PM valeria101 wrote:


Since your wife's hand was not injured when the diamond was lost - that sounds like 'normal wear' to me. I can only hope that Slovenia has a vastly better legal system than Romania... there would clearly be no recourse available here at all.

----------------

How could this, or any company for that matter, sell tension settings if they knew that through "normal wear and tear" that you could or would lose the diamond within a couple of years???? Wouldn't their warranty guard against such an occurance?

Especially if they wanted to stay in business.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Not insured against handclapping???

That's bulldooky. How many of your customers do you tell THAT to before they buy?

 

[starfire]

Hi icelady,

It is generally industry practise for jewelry company to offer warranty against manufacturer's defects and poor workmanship.

However, it is in practise impossible for any jeweller to offer a blanket warranty against damage caused by wear and tear. Generally, the jeweller should spend a few minutes to inform the customer about ways to keep their jewelry beautiful and how to avoid harming it.

For example, if you are wearing a pearl ring, you would be advised not to wash your dishes with detergent while wearing that ring. And generally, customers are sensible people who take good care.

However, some actions people do on a daily basis can inadvertently damage jewelry. For example, clapping of hands while wearing rings on both hands. This is a repetitive action that can inflict damage on the jewelry. (This is just an example; I am not casting any judgement on Domen's wife or anything like that)

Sometimes, a wearer could hit an object like a table without knowing, and yet inflict an impact that could jar a diamond loose. This is a perfectly plausible possibility.

I think the key thing is not to engage in name-calling or even talk about lawsuits here, but to settle this issue in an amicable and mature manner.

I am sure Domen's wife didn't intentionally cause the diamond to drop out. At the same time, Niessing is a 130 year-old company, and would not deliberately make poor quality jewelry (or they wouldn't have lasted so long, would they?).

I am sure that Domen and Niessing can work out a solution that is mutually acceptable. They both sound reasonable.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

----------------
On 7/28/2004 7:21:51 AM icelady wrote:

----------------
----------------

How could this, or any company for that matter, sell tension settings if they knew that through 'normal wear and tear' that you could or would lose the diamond within a couple of years???? Wouldn't their warranty guard against such an occurance?

Especially if they wanted to stay in business.----------------

 

[oldminer]

I think Niessing's offer to take another look seems very fair and honest. While I don't think hand clapping worthy of voiding a warranty, if one actually exists, there is some merit to understanding that Niessing does not promise that a ring, even their own, will last forever. One must understand that is a reasonable premise. Whatever happened to the diamond may not be the ring maker's fault. Had the diamond been recovered Niessing would have rest the stone, but purchasing insurance coverage for LOSS is thought to be the responsibility of the consumer, at least in the USA.

What if the diamond broke in half and fell out? How can we know without finding the two pieces? It will remain a mystery as to what took place. That's for certain.

I have seen several different tension set solitaires over the years including Niessing's product. I have not even seen one where the stone was loose, let alone fell out. I have heard of this happening, but it is infrequent.

My fear with all tension set rings is the virtually inevitable need for re-sizing over time. We get larger, smaller, joints swell, etc, etc. This can't be easily done.
My preference is for rings that "look" like tension set, but actually are not. The effect is so similar, but there is far less stress on the diamond. These rings can also be re-sized by almost any decent jeweler, too.

Its good to see a manufacturer who cares enough to come onto the forum and offer to look over a problem situation with a consumer. I hope the matter could be resolved in a reasonable way. It is a difficult dilemma. Other consumers may learn from this thread and buy accordingly. Insurance against a loss is a pretty good idea if you obtain the coverage.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/28/2004 9:02:41 AM Rank Amateur wrote:

Not insured against handclapping???

That's bullshit. How many of your customers do you tell THAT to before they buy?----------------

I can not concur more. This is freakin ridiculous & I would *never* recommend this setting to *anyone*. Oh Brother! Handclapping. Besides - they may be watching a movie. How many people clap at movies?

 

[Niessing]

Thank you for your answer! Regarding the resizing-policy of Niessing: You're right, it is a diffculty to change ringsizes of tension-settings (which mostly means a complete new ringshank). We advise everybody to "not do this" because you have to have the know how (and this ain't easy!). The Niessing-policy is very simple: Whenever you would like to have a tension-ring resized - even after a lot of years - , we would charge a quite low price for that. In Germany, the suggested retail-price for the resizing of a tension setting is about 100,-- to 150,-- EURO(the dealer of course may charge for shipping cost, insurance, maybe taxes or customs etc.). We tell these prices just to give you an idea.

So: You don't need to sell or buy "fake" tension rings... They are not so nice (excuse me). The original design invented by Niessing in 1979 and brought to the market in 1981 is still looking better...

Niessing

 

[reena]

I concur--I laughed out loud when I read the post. Shameful.

 

[Diamondsbybree]

Not insured against handclapping???

That's bullshit. How many of your customers do you tell THAT to before they buy?




I second that~!

 

[Niessing]

please... your using strong words for a difficult matter. Stephen Tan explained in a very good way (and in much less words than me, my english is not so perfect), what a good jeweler is and what he should be doing. (Thank you!)

It's a question of honesty and trust. If you really want to buy an expensive piece of jewelry and you have the emotions high on that, a good sales-person has to decide. On the one hand, he/she should explain the hard facts and give technical advise, on the other hand he/she wants (and has) to sell. And you would like to buy...!

For example: If you are going to buy a Porsche for 100.000,-- USD, do you want to hear, what kind of accidents you may have with this car? That you could die in it? Come on. A sales-person cannot (and I think does not have to) tell all possible situations and theoretical problems. You always have a rest of risk with all products you buy or use. Or would you like to have a manual for jewelry like for cars with all possible "Danger", "Alerts", and "Dont's"? We don't think this should become necessary. There's always a solution and we keep on searching for that.

Niessing

 

[elmo]

I don't so quickly dismiss Niessing's position on the issue of hand clapping, and am still on the fence so to speak because the diamond is not available for examination. If while being worn the ring or stone strikes a hard object with force and the stone fractures and comes loose, how can that be the responsibility of the manufacturer of the setting? As Dave points out, isn't that exactly what insurance on the ring is for? At some point the owner must take responsibility for reasonable care of the item. I don't think anyone can say what really happened here without seeing the stone.

 

[Niessing]

thank you, ok. One question: are you an expert? We sometimes see rings looking like a truck would have been driven over it. What happened?

You name it.

Niessing

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/28/2004 10:48:12 AM Niessing wrote:

thank you, ok. One question: are you an expert? We sometimes see rings looking like a truck would have been driven over it. What happened?

You name it.

Niessing----------------

Well, why doesn't someone post a pic of the ring and show the damage to the extent that a diamond would fall out. Handclapping won't resemble being run over by a truck.

Reasonable care. Clasping/clapping of the hands is not on the radar for danger. Again, how can your settings be secure if handclapping can make the stone jar. Ding the setting - maybe - but cause the stone to fall out?

Why would I buy the orginal? Because the company would stand behind their product. Clearly, that isn't the case here with the total dismissal of claim. I don't know if what you wrote is verbetum from Nies.; but, what was posted looks like a form letter.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/28/2004 10:41:40 AM elmo wrote:

I don't so quickly dismiss Niessing's position on the issue of hand clapping, ----------------

In all my years of wearing my prong set rings, I have never had a problem & I've been clapping all my life.

Geez, Mara even wears her prong set ring to kickbox for pete's sake.

 

[boonerings]

Some designs are definitely more conservative than others. Factors such as the stone protruding outside the ring, the thickness of the metal, and how deep the grooves holding the stone are play a key role in how securely the stone is held during side impacts.

I would say that the hand clapping scenario is not likely in an American movie theather, but if her arm swung down and happened to clip the hard edge of a seat or other object at just the right angle, it could theoretically generate enough force to overcome the ~70 pounds of preload holding the stone in. I would imagine that the stone is still whole, and is lying in a corner somewhere if it hasn't been discovered. A flashlight in a darkened empty theater might be the best bet for trying to find it. If the ring was properly preloaded (and coming from Niessing, I assume it was) the ring should be considerably tighter without the stone than when it was there. The prongs should have sprung inward when the stone popped out.

I would be interested to see which design that was, and how far the stone protruded (if any) outside the ring.

 

[starfire]

Hi F&I,

I think we have established here that Domen has a problem, and that Niessing has offered to fix the problem.

That is a very good development, and I think we should cool off and not make disparaging remarks about the manufacturer unnecessarily. One problem does not equate poor quality of the brand/product. As Dave has mentioned, such ocurrences are rare and one should give the benefit of the doubt to BOTH parties.

I do not think it is reasonable to say that you would "never" recommend this setting to "anyone" on the basis of this one case. (Although I grant that you have the right to your opinion.)

I also have not seen from Mr Nuenning's response that there is any total dismissal of Domen's claim. It was merely a plausible explanation for the loss of the diamond. It did not appear dismissive.

Why not let Domen send the ring in for repair, and if Niessing does it to his satisfaction, he could share his experience in this forum again? Let's try not to just see the negative side shall we?

----------------
On 7/28/2004 12:04:01 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------

Why would I buy the orginal? Because the company would stand behind their product. Clearly, that isn't the case here with the total dismissal of claim. I don't know if what you wrote is verbetum from Nies.; but, what was posted looks like a form letter.

----------------

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/28/2004 12:39:11 PM starfire wrote:

Hi F&I,

I think we have established here that Domen has a problem, and that Niessing has offered to fix the problem.

----------------

----------------[/quote]


No, that is not the case. Domen received a "form letter" from the company stating that they were not at fault. Period. So, the guy comes on here to voice his concerns at the fact that Nies, stated in writing, they would "not assume any responsibility" . Now, because it's on the internet, they offer an olive branch. Damage done.

Then, to claim that handclapping might be the culprit. Sorry, not me. A design that is comprimised with handclapping isn't for me; nor could I recommend it's safety to others. And, a company who doesn't do the right thing until they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, not for me either.