Lurker No More!

[Cartwheel]

Hi Ladies!

I''ve lurked on here for the past couple of months and tonight I decided to join the fun!

I''m gonna start with a potentially controversial topic - I''ve found that people are quite passionate about it anyway - and who better to open the table to than the PSers! I''ve been dating the same guy for over four years and he''s wonderful. He''s so patient and kind and pretty darn near perfect. I love him like crazy. We''re both in our early thirties and don''t want children, but he really wants to get married. I guess there is a part of me that wants to, but the right brain isn''t really sure what the point is if we''re not having kids. Many people that I''ve asked say, "It''s to have that commitment to each other" and then I think, "But shouldn''t we already have that commitment BEFORE we get married???" And then I end up in a circular argument that never resolves itself. I guess it''s worth mentioning that I''ve been married before. It was a 4-month disaster a LOOOOONG time ago. BF hasn''t been married before.

So there you have it. I guess I''m trying to gain some clarity by find out why everyone has decided to get married and even more so if you don''t plan to have kiddies.

Thanks all!

~Cartwheel~

 

[monarch64]

Cartwheel, I''m honored to be the first to say Welcome to PS! No matter what your circumstance, you will find an open minded and accepting community here. Enjoy!

 

[gwendolyn]

Not sure if we''ll have kids, but since we are from different countries, it''d be much much harder for us to live and work in the same country without being married. Hopefully we''ll be able to swing it for next year so that, after 3 1/2 years of long-distance, we can finally settle down and live together. If that goes like I expect it to, then we''ll probably be married either in the spring of ''09 or fall of ''09, depending on if we get married in England (where we are now and where he is from originally) or the US (where I''m from and where we are going to settle).

So, yeah, for us it''s as much a practical "it''s how we get to be together" sort of thing as it is about anything else. Which doesn''t help your predicament at all, I''m afraid! By the way, welcome to the board!

 

[smiles]

welcome to PS!!

The first thought I had when thinking about the purpose of mariage is the legal status... I am not sure where you live but you may want to go have a real look at what the different legalities are between common law and married couples... I am in Canada and in my province I believe there are some not so well known big differences...?!?!
anywhos, welcome I hope you''ll loveit here!

 

[absolut_blonde]

Ok, I may be biased because I do want to get married (so does SO, luckily). But I tend to think, if it''s important to the person that you love and you KNOW they are ''the one''-- then why not? Honestly. If it is something they highly value and you do intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

I suppose it would be another issue if you are vehemently ANTI-marriage as opposed to simply ''neutral''. But in that case, it''s a values/compatibility issue that hopefully people discuss and resolve early on.

 

[Cartwheel]

This is great everyone!

Gwendolyn, I read most of your posts and I think you''re possibly one of the sweetest people on the planet!

Smiles, great idea. I will look into the legality of it all. We''re in California where I believe common law no longer exists, but I''m sure there''s something to it.

Absolut (I''m a Kettle One Girl! - weird to type that at 10am!) - I''m definitely not anti-marriage. I''m more in the neutral school, but I''m just curious about what it means to people. I like what you said about "why not?" It''s very simple.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 5/11/2008 2:44:23 PM
Author: Cartwheel
This is great everyone!

Gwendolyn, I read most of your posts and I think you''re possibly one of the sweetest people on the planet!

Smiles, great idea. I will look into the legality of it all. We''re in California where I believe common law no longer exists, but I''m sure there''s something to it.

Absolut (I''m a Kettle One Girl! - weird to type that at 10am!) - I''m definitely not anti-marriage. I''m more in the neutral school, but I''m just curious about what it means to people. I like what you said about ''why not?'' It''s very simple.

I never REALLY thought about it seriously with SO. When I was younger, I never wanted to get married OR have children -- so for what it''s worth, I''m not one of those ''planning my wedding since I was 5'' girls!.

I like the idea of marriage for a number of reasons. On some level, it''s difficult to articulate so hopefully I can explain where I''m coming from relatively well. There are the more obvious legal benefits, being his next of kin, etc. Also, being recognized as a family is huge to me, especially on a social level. I want to be able to call him my husband vs. ''boyfriend'' or ''partner''. I like the symbolism behind the wedding bands, as well, kind of like you belong together (e-ring is a bonus, of course, but really beside the point). I know it''s not all butterflies and kittens 24/7 but I really do like the idea of making a permanent commitment to one another for you as a couple, in front of your loved ones, in the eyes of society and legally. But again, it''s a bit hard to describe because before SO I never felt so compelled to have that with someone.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 5/11/2008 2:44:23 PM
Author: Cartwheel
Gwendolyn, I read most of your posts and I think you''re possibly one of the sweetest people on the planet!

Awww, thank you, darlin''! You''re too kind.

I was just talking to my boyfriend about this thread, and he said that I should correct some bits about what I said before--not that what I said was wrong, but that it does mean more to us than just the practical aspect. He rightfully pointed out that we''d be married already if it was only about the paperwork. He''s right, it''s not--it would make both our lives SO much easier if it could be like that, but I am currently not completely sure we will get married (he is) because we haven''t lived together yet. We''ve seen lots of each other, but the closest we''ve ever lived to each other has been now, 200 miles apart. I want us to live together before we get married, and not rush into things. I want to feel ready, like we''re making the choice ourselves to get married, not because the government says one of us will get deported if we don''t get married by X date. But yeah! Would be lots easier if there wasn''t huge sentimental, emotional attachment to marriage, because then we would be married by now. But if it didn''t have that emotional importance to it, it wouldn''t be marriage, at least to me. Or would it? I think I''ve confused myself.

 

[FrekeChild]

Welcome!

I want to get married because I want bling! HAHAHA!! Not at all. I want to get married because I want the world to know that I''m his and he''s mine. And he wants to get married for the tax breaks and legal stuff, and because I want to.

Yup.

 

[Blair138]

I agree with Absolut-Why Not?

Since you live in the U.S.-I would also look into things like insurance, death (not to be morbid) and wills.

MOST insurance companies will not cover 2 people unless they are married. Even if you both have jobs and insurance, sometimes it saves a lot of money to just have one source of coverage or a secondary source. Also-when it comes down to death-there could be issues with finances in the eyes of the state/bill collectors etc.

Just some logistics to think about-I want to get married and kids are a big part of what I see for our future so marriage is important to me for reasons outside of the taxes/legal end of things, but just wanted to give my 2 cents and say welcome!!!

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

Kinda tough because I do want children...so does my SO....BUT during the times when I was not thinking seriously about children it was mostly the desire to show to everyone that this was the person I wanted to be with. The added benefit of tax breaks and ease of transfering personal property (especially in case of injury or death) was a major factor as well. I worked in the Trust and Estate field for a long time so I saw the many benefits marriage can bring to the table in the event of unplanned disability or death.

I guess, generally speaking, I find the entire thought of marriage comforting.

 

[Bia]

Cartwheel:

Firstly, WELCOME!!!

I wanted to mention someone I know who was in a similar situation awhile ago and has chosen to remain in this situation over the years. My eldest cousin, now in her mid-late thirties, was married at 21. This marriage was very much a whimsical romance and ended very quickly (within a year). A year or so after her divorce had become final, she might have been 24 or 25, she met a man and began a relationship. They moved in together not long afterwards. Now, my cousin and her “fiance” are of different religions, she of orthodox Christianity and he of the Muslim faith. Although neither is religious, their cultural differences have played a large part, I think, in the reasons they are not seriously exploring marriage--that and he had a very bad experience with his now ex-wife. The reason I tell you this is because they have been together now for 12 years and are fine with this arrangement. They live as a married couple does, and share everything, including finances. My cousin is even trying to conceive, without any real plans for marriage on the horizon. So, it can, and does work for many people.

If marriage is NOT important to you, and he is willing to compromise, then there is no reason why it can''t work. However, if it is something you might consider, and your BF really needs it, then maybe you should continue to be open-minded about the idea of marriage. I am sure, after what you said about your relationship and BF, it wouldn''t turn out the same way your first marriage did.

For me…

I agree with everyone. For BF and I, marriage signifies our desire to be a family. It is important for it to be recognized legally and in the eyes of society. This is not to say that couples who have been companions for years and years are any less committed (although, legally they are) than their married counterparts. I think, since we both came from stable, happy homes and parents who are happily married, we grew up admiring the ways our parents have been able to sustain a marriage for so long...because it is work, of that we have no doubt. We would love to be able to recreate that in our own lives and have discussed this extensively.

When I ask him about his views on marriage, he says he wants to marry me because he wants me to be his wife and he wants everyone to know I am his wife...not his girlfriend--there is a huge distinction there for him, but I believe there is one particularly in our society (American culture). I think in other, more progressive cultures, many couples do not get married and it doesn''t make that much of a difference...which is great too! For me, marriage affirms our intentions. It declares, "Yes he is my husband. I chose to make this person my life partner, in the eyes of God, my family and my friends." That is important to me. I am not usually a traditionalist, but in this case, I am. I also want children, and I''d like to be married when I eventually do. However, I also believe that for some people marriage is not necessary in order to have children and create a family. It is just our personal preference...maybe because we came from somewhat traditional households.

 

[Lauren8211]

Just wanted to say welcome to the group!

Nothing original to say -- as most of the things I would have said have been covered already!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Welcome!

I am in the "why not?" camp here. If you are not vehemently anti-marriage [which, from your posts, it seems like you are not], it can''t hurt one bit. I totally recognize that some people have intense personal or political reasons for not getting married, but that doesn''t necessarily apply here.

Marriage for practical purposes is quite handy- in fact, there are something like 1,000+ benefits automatically associated with marriage. Gosh, I practically sound like I''m in love with it, don''t I? Well, since I am a lesbian, I CAN''T get legally married to my partner.

Nothing like not being able to get married to make you acutely aware of how much simpler and more wonderful it would make your life- for both practical and social purposes.

If you love the person and intend on spending the rest of your life committed to them, there''s no harm in it, and I think it''s nice to have the "legitimacy" associated with it. People tend to behave quite differently toward couples, even long-term couples, who are not "officially" married.

 

[honey22]

I'm not sure if we are going to have kids, maybe later but nothing set in stone as far as planning goes. I definately want to be married. For me, it's certainly not about convenience or just in case we have kids, to me it's about standing there in front of your family and friends and telling the world that this is the person you love more than life itself, the one you want to spend the good times and the bad times with, no matter what life throws at you, this is your best friend and you promise to love and support them forever. It's a declaration of love and committment, totally not an arrangement of conveniece for me or to so our (potential) kids can have the same last name etc.

ETA - Welcome to PS

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/11/2008 2:37:46 AM
Author:cartwheel
Hi Ladies!

I''ve lurked on here for the past couple of months and tonight I decided to join the fun!

I''m gonna start with a potentially controversial topic - I''ve found that people are quite passionate about it anyway - and who better to open the table to than the PSers! I''ve been dating the same guy for over four years and he''s wonderful. He''s so patient and kind and pretty darn near perfect. I love him like crazy. We''re both in our early thirties and don''t want children, but he really wants to get married. I guess there is a part of me that wants to, but the right brain isn''t really sure what the point is if we''re not having kids. Many people that I''ve asked say, ''It''s to have that commitment to each other'' and then I think, ''But shouldn''t we already have that commitment BEFORE we get married???'' And then I end up in a circular argument that never resolves itself. I guess it''s worth mentioning that I''ve been married before. It was a 4-month disaster a LOOOOONG time ago. BF hasn''t been married before.

So there you have it. I guess I''m trying to gain some clarity by find out why everyone has decided to get married and even more so if you don''t plan to have kiddies.

Thanks all!

~Cartwheel~

My FI feels exactly the same way - even though he does want children.

For me it was a dual legal/personal thing.

If we weren''t married and something awful happened to him:

- I wouldn''t be recognised as his next-of-kin
- If he died I would have no entitlement to his estate (house, savings etc)

and vice-versa

On the personal side I got fed up with being chatted up by men and having to drop the ''boyfriend'' bit into conversations. Now I have a ring on my finger, I can have interesting conversations with people without them getting the wrong idea.

I was fed up with my extended family thinking I was with a man who ''is not that in to you''.

I want a public declaration of our love and commitment to each other - not bothered about the fancy wedding but I did want the ceremony...

Oh, and the ring was a nice bonus...

 

[Cartwheel]

Thank you all for the incredibly thoughtful responses. I''m in the midst of finals hell so I haven''t been able to check in until this morning.

Some thoughts:

I really like the "why not" thing and I''m sure I''m taking it more seriously given how my first marriage turned out. I''m terrified of that happening again. And if I really think about that, it''s completely ridiculous. He''s so not the person that would do that to me. If anything, he''s the person I know I can get through life with.

Wishful: I agree that unmarried, long term couples are viewed differently. My grandmother actually blurted out right in front of him,"I think she''s stringing him along!" Thanks grams. I know she didn''t mean any harm, but it was her way of saying, "Get on with it already!" I will add though that I''m not convinced that this is a legitimate reason to get hitched. I''ve never been one to do exactly what society expects of me (i.e. no kids, quitting my job at 30 to go back to school, etc.).


Okay, back to studying!!!! Thanks again everyone. If anything, it just helps to talk it out, ya know???