Make it stooooopppp!

[FarFarAway]

Oh jeebus. Just in the past 2 weeks, 2 friends from HS are engaged, and one from college.

The college one is my old college roommate, who started dating her SO about a week before I started dating mine. We shared stories, talked til 4am about our respective "non-BF"s and digressed about everything. Around a year later, SO and I began to talk about getting married/engaged, and I, of course, gushed to her about EVERYTHING. How much we loved each other, how much we want to be together, how we are planning on getting married...blah blah blah. SHE was the one that was like "Wow, really? Marriage???"

And now SHE''S engaged. I feel like a total idiot when she went "I know you''ll be next"

Ugh. Im trying to be happy for all of them. Really. They are all great girls and deserve everything.

But why not me??? Why is SO dragging this on? Its been a few months since the last time we mentioned anything about marriage or engagement and it doesn''t seem like he''s even thought about it much. I HATE trying to sit him down to talk about this because I feel like I shouldn''t have to, know what I mean? I shouldn''t HAVE to tell you to ask me to marry you! I shouldn''t HAVE to set a deadline for when you should come through! If you loved me, and wanted to be with me the way you''ve said you do, shouldn''t you be rushing out and getting me a ring and getting down on one knee??? (That sounds corny, but you get the point). None of the girls who got engaged had to sit their SO''s to talk about when and what! They all were damn surprised and elated when it happened.

To me, if I really wanted to marry the person, I would not be able to WAIT to ask them. So...where does that leave me? Making him sit down to talk about this is making me NOT want to get engaged at all.

Ok, rant over. Thanks

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 7/18/2007 12:46:16 PM
Author:FarFarAway
None of the girls who got engaged had to sit their SO''s to talk about when and what! They all were damn surprised and elated when it happened.

Don''t be so sure. You have no idea what goes on between couples behind closed doors! You only know what they WANT you to know.

Not sure how old you are - or if you''re still in school ... but have you seen a lot of engagements END yet? Getting engaged swiftly or easily is no guarantee of ANYTHING. Sometimes its the guys who are taking it the most seriously who WAIT.

In my late Thirties now -- looking back over my friends & my friends'' friends relationships -- some of those "rush to marry" college relationships later broke up cuz the dude was actually GAY. I''m just saying -- you can''t believe that someone is more truly, wholly in love & ready for hitchin'' JUST because of a swift romantic proposal. It''s not a way to judge what the future might hold - AT ALL.

 

[Pandora II]

Go and buy:

Why Men marry some Women and not Others.

According to this book 78% of men interviewed picking up marriage licences had to be kicked to the altar!

My father and brother are two of the "can't wait to be engaged and married" types and all 4 of my ex's proposed, one of them at least once a week. I was truly shocked that my FI had to be severely talked too about it

I made sure he knew that marriage was a non-negotiable and if he wasn't interested there were plenty of other men out there who would be.

Well - he proposed, enjoying every minute of it to his own surprise and is now quite into the wedding (though not the planning!)

Good luck - I know just how it feels when others get engaged and it's not you, but trust me many of them will have been having words - most people just don't admit it that's all.

ETA: Deco you are so right - I'm 35 shortly and when I look at my cohort from school and college, everyone, without exception, who got married before 26 is now getting divorced or getting married for the second time. Some of my "just for fun" boyfriends lasted longer than those marriages!

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 7/18/2007 12:46:16 PM
Author:FarFarAway
I HATE trying to sit him down to talk about this because I feel like I shouldn''t have to, know what I mean? I shouldn''t HAVE to tell you to ask me to marry you! I shouldn''t HAVE to set a deadline for when you should come through! If you loved me, and wanted to be with me the way you''ve said you do, shouldn''t you be rushing out and getting me a ring and getting down on one knee???

Amen sister! Totally agree with you.
And when I discussed how I was feeling with my boyfriend (in letter form) I let him know all of those points.
It''s the truth...you shouldn''t have to wait around to find out if your BF is on the same page as you. If he is, the answer should come easily to him, right?

When I finally had that talk with my BF, it was because JenStone re-posted a couple of things that other posters have said, which were:

"You know what I sometimes tell myself / ask myself? No matter what excuses, timelines, frustrations, intentions, hopes, failures, promises, expectations, etc etc.....what it ALL comes down to, for me, is
It shouldn''t have to be this hard." -Starset Princess (ended up moving on, and last we knew was dating a new guy.)

and

"I also look at it this way--in essence, YOU have already proposed to him by making it clear that you want to marry him. How long are you going to wait for his answer? Several years of ''no answer'' really IS an answer, isn''t it?" -Christa (already married when posting this)

All three are extremely bright girls. (Jenstone is recently engaged.) When I read this, I was like, "DUH!". Why am I sitting here letting my self-esteem rot when I can just find out once and for all what he is thinking. I wrote him a letter. I didn''t exactly give him an ultimatum, but I did let him know that God was giving me a way out. (I had just lost my job, and school was out...and my family lives 2000 miles away.) I told him that I could take that way out and move back home to be closer to my family, or I could take one last leap of faith that we will be able to talk about our future like ADULTS without feeling uncomfortable. We only have one life...and what can I say, I''m a planner. I didn''t corner him...I didn''t "attack" him...I talked to him like an adult and basically let him know that by staying with me when he didn''t want to get married was preventing him from finding who HE wants to be with forever as well. I also let him know that it was a win-win situation for me. I would either marry the man of my dreams, or I would be closer to my family and able to start over. And, last but not least, I told him that this would be my last attempt to get answers, because there are only so many times one can handle being made broken promises.

It''s been a couple of months since that letter, and a LOT of progress has been made. We celebrated "Mark Turnowski back to work day" yesterday...lol. (Although my boyfriend was too busy to actually call him yesterday.

But when I laid it out in a non-threatening manner and was 100% clear on what I wanted, he knew it was up to him to make it happen or let me go. He chose to stay, and we couldn''t be happier.

and...if only to make this post even more of a novel:

Do you and your BF live together? Before my BF and I moved in together, I bought a book called "The good girl''s guide to living in sin". In it, it gave awesome tips on how to *not* make your relationship stagnant after living together. I followed all of those tips except for one: SET A TIMELINE TO GET ENGAGED BEFORE MOVING IN! At the time I didn''t feel comfortable bringing up marriage yet, but I really wish I would have....probably would have shaved off a couple years of frustration! There is even a guy point of view, where he says that after four years of living together, he came home to his girlfriend packing her stuff, and THAT was what made him propose. It horrified me at the time, and now I''m living it. And so are SO many other girls.

Anyway, I think all LIW/girls living with their BFs/Girls thinking about moving in with their BFs should buy that book and read it. It''s my GF bible.

 

[pyramid]

Here is something my mother told me, I don't know where she got it from or if it is an old saying others have heard, at the time I was younger and had a boyfriend, when she said it at the time it made me feel sad but as years have gone on I sometimes recall it and it makes me understand things. Now I don't know if it is true or if you would see it as true, but I see it in someways.

This is what she said:

'Love to a man is but a thing apart, to a woman her very existence'.

Sometimes when I read threads like these it makes me think yes men are different, they are not into all this fancy weddings and princess fairytales when they are young, sometimes I think they are more down to earth and practical in a way. I am not against feminism and many women have good careers and make decisions as well as men, but I do think that this saying my mother told me is true. I don't know if it is in the bible or where it comes from.

I can't remember really now what my problems was when she told me this, but I think it may have been that I was upset that he wanted to spend so much time with his mates or going around in his car or what, it was sillly looking back because I was very young, but I thought if he loved me he would want to be with me, so sort of in a way the same as saying if he loved you he would be running to get a ring. We have all heard that men mature slower than women and I think there is just some things they need to do in their lives first. Just because someone you know is engaged is not really to do with your relationship being worse or not than theirs but maybe to do with the fact the guy is ready or as someone said they are not considering it as fully more happy go lucky way. Maybe it is not as big a deal to them but then it may be and they are just ready.

I also think guys mention marriage when they are young to their girlfriends because they know all girls want a wedding and it is their way of making you happy at the time, I think when guys get older they are only going to mention it when they are comfortable with the idea of going through with it.

 

[Stephanie]

May I just say that I hate the term "living in sin"? I am going to keep my rant to myself about that one, but honestly, I hate it.
To the topic at hand -
Far: It is so very difficult to be in a relationship with one person willing to jump in and the other scared to even get their feet wet. I don''t even like the idea of having to have timeline conversations (in fact in the seven and a half years we have been together, we have never had one - but then it has been several years of waiting, right?). You don''t want to push him to be engaged, but you don''t want to be waiting. It''s an awful Catch 22. But you can''t take someone else''s relationship and compare it to yours. I know that is said over and over, but you just need to think about if you can your guy are on the same page. How does he react to these conversations about marriage and such? Defensive, open to talking about it, anger?
About your friends getting engaged - it is so hard not to let the jealousy take control. I have been the bane of my bf''s existence at weddings before because it wasn''t ours. And there is no amount of "your next" or "it''s coming" that can take these emotions away (in fact, it actually makes me more angry to hear people say that stuff.) But you do need to be emotionally available for your friends, especially the one that was your former confidant.
Sorry, this got a little long..

 

[DMBsGirl]

I totally relate to your situation. I also wish my boyfriend had never had to be "pushed" to proposing. (*sigh*) My boyfriend insists that his waiting to propose is a purely monetary thing, but i wonder. Most boys just seem to have different priorities than us, and they have NO CLUE what it is like when everyone around you starts to get engaged and you have been waiting and waiting patiently. They seem to think that those things shouldn''t affect us, and we should just be able to continue to wait without getting frustrated/upset/impatient. I try to help my boyfriend understand but he just can''t, I don''t think there is anything in their lives that could directly compare.

 

[KimberlyH]

Its been a few months since the last time we mentioned anything about marriage or engagement and it doesn't seem like he's even thought about it much. I HATE trying to sit him down to talk about this because I feel like I shouldn't have to, know what I mean?

This really stuck out to me...why shouldn't you have to discuss this with him? You are a couple in a relationship. To me that means you share decision making power, including getting engaged/married. Talking to him doesn't have to mean lecturing, nagging and berating. It could/should mean "Honey, I love you and I want to spend my life with you but I feel like we aren't on the same page so I think we should have a discussion about where we're headed as a couple..." In 20 years it won't matter nearly as much that you got your long imagined suprise proposal as it will that the two of you end up getting married and sharing your life together, or moving on in different directions because you two don't share the same wants, needs and desires.

 

[FarFarAway]

Thank you ladies so much for your responses. I really needed to get things off my chest.

decodelighted: We''re both 25, going on 26. We''ve been together nearly 5 years. And I understand about the "rush" marriages, but none of the engagements I mentioned are. They''ve all been dating for >3 years, and yet, they, at least to me, never seemed to have to discuss deadlines when it came to engagements.

Pandora II: thank you for your statistics lol. Didn''t know it was that high

Lucky: That''s EXACTLY how I feel. WHY IS IT THIS HARD? Why is it that other people can seem to just float into engagement while I feel like I''m twisting my SO''s arm? And no, we don''t live together.

Pyramid: Your mom is very insightful

Stephanie: You are right, I shouldn''t compare other people''s relationships to my own and I rarely do. Except in light of all these engagements, and Im just getting more and more frustrated. The past few times we''ve talked about getting married, he''s been happy and smiley and open to discussion. So I can''t imagine that he''s put off by the idea...only...he''s done nothing about it.

DMB: omg, yes, thank you

Kimberly: I completely understand and thank you for pointing that out. Its just, like I said, I wonder why it seems like I am pushing and wrangling him into it, when I feel like he should just want to. kwim?

I know I am probably being very childish in feeling like I want him to do this all on his own, voluntarily and quickly, and its probably not very practical. But listening to all the engagement news makes me sad and slightly angry that I''m still...waiting.

 

[musey]

Along the same lines of Pandora's suggestion, go read The Truth Behind the Rock: Everything You Never Wanted to Know About Engagements . . . Until Now. You are NOT the only one to coddle your boyfriend through this transition.

There is a disconnect that occurs in most men's brains, between "I love this woman, I want to spend the rest of my life with her" and "Oh, I guess I should propose then!" My FI and I had a lot of the conversations you're hoping to avoid, and he had a LOT of "oh, yeah, I guess that makes sense" moments. They just don't think of things in the same terms that women do. He loves you, things are going great, you're happy together--why change? Where she loves him, things are going great, you're happy together--why HAVEN'T things changed? (IE by us getting engaged.)

Anyway, the important thing is that you're not alone. Most women don't want to have to tell their boyfriends to propose to them, because that ruins it, right? I think that, just like nearly every other woman, you'll learn that you have to dismiss the whole "I want him to think of it on his own!" (I know I did) because odds are he WON'T--because he's not you and doesn't know what you want UNLESS YOU TELL HIM!!

So, go tell him!

ETA: I should mention that, appropriately enough, I just had similar discussion with FI today--not about getting engaged, obviously, but a similarly motivated discussion about something he "wasn't doing" that bothered me. It doesn't stop after you get engaged/married/etc. etc.

Anyway, what was so painfully appropriate to this thread was that the entire discussion ended with him saying "I never thought of it that way--you're right, I'm sorry." I think that that defines the male phsyche: they just "never thought of it that way."

 

[KimberlyH]

I was engaged twice, got married once. The first time around I had no idea the proposal was coming and the only thing I knew to say was "yes." I called the wedding off because we weren''t right for each other.

When my DH and I started to get serious we had several discussions that encompassed timelines for engagement and marriage along with what we both saw our marriage looking like. Was it the fairytale I''d been spoon fed since I was 3? Absolutely not. But what it was real and concrete and honest. It allowed us both to evaluate our relationship, improve our communication skills and ensure us both that we were on the same page and that neither of us ended up hurt, angry or upset because expectations and hopes didn''t mesh with reality.

And when he proposed it was romantic and sweet and thoughtful and perfectly us and I wouldn''t change a thing about it.

 

[FarFarAway]

So I went and had dinner with the newly engaged, and they dropped another bomb on me:

Well, 2:

1) Destination wedding, and I REALLY wanted to go since she''s a good friend of mine and is having a traditional Indian wedding....but I can''t afford to fly across the world at this point. so bummer.

2) They are having a short engagement. Meaning: She''ll be MARRIED before Im engaged. AHHHH

 

[Haven]

Far, I completely feel for you as I was in the same situation not too long ago. I won''t repost my entire story, but here''s the link to the thread I started asking for PS advice, which of course, I got! https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-please-unbiased-perspective-needed.63258/

I''m sorry to hear about the destination wedding, it''s always sad to have to miss out on a good friend''s big day.

Basically, I shared your feeling that it shouldn''t have to be so hard, and that BF should WANT to get married and if I had to prod him to do so it meant it wasn''t really right, right? Well, I couldn''t have been more wrong. When we finally had a discussion about it he was shocked to hear how upset I was about everything, and he couldn''t fathom the fact that would I even question whether he wanted to marry me.

Kimberly is absolutely right when she says that two adults should discuss marriage, this should be a decision two people make together.

The bottom line: Once I followed the excellent advice that you have gotten here to sit my man down and engage in a real, adult discussion (not lecture) about marriage, things took off. We talked back in June and now he''s talking to Leon about getting an ering custom made. I think we''re fed all these images of young, nubile brides being totally shocked that their man has had daydreams about the perfect proposal and then they skip off down the aisle with smiles on their faces that we forget this is something that needs to be discussed, as it is, after all, a very big step forward for the both of you.

Good luck, and let us know how your discussion turns out.

 

[FarFarAway]

So last night I had a semi-break down and we were on the phone with each other and I just blurted out "So what are we doing here?"

He told me he loved me and still has the same exact feelings that he had a year ago when we last had a discussion about getting married. He''s coming home this weekend and we''ll apparently have a talk about what is going to happen in the future. But again, its very vague and had a kind of "Oh that would be nice whenever it happens" tone.

But there''s the thing that got me: As we were talking he stops for a second and goes "Promise me one thing, ok? That we won''t let the frustration of our situation (we''re LDR) seep into our conversations because its sad that we get into these fights when we should be hanging out. Why can''t we just talk like we used to?"

I just kind of shut down after that. Partially because I just kind of went "What? Oh, you mean let me shut up about what Im feeling and how frustrating it is to have our relationship on hold for the past 2 years? Oh ok, yea...let me just "hang out" with you and keep these frustrations to myself."

Ugh. I think im over reacting but its so infuriating. I feel like I am the only one in this relationship that is fighting tooth and nail for it to move forward. I think he''s perfectly happy where he is.

tell me to stop being a brat.

 

[Miscka]

You arent being a brat. I totally understand where you are coming from. I feel the same way a lot of the time. Although I do the same thing, I think you should realize that you have a right to share how you feel, and share that burden if you will, and that does not make you a brat. I am also guilty of "shutting down" when my BF makes comments like that, hopefully you and I can both learn to get better about that

I wish I had better advice to give you, but just know that you aren''t alone! LDRs are hard work, and I have a lot of respect for people that can make them work, so good for you!

 

[Krissie]

Oh, I totally know how you feel. I was in a relationship from ages 20-25 with a man that I really loved and who helped me through a few difficult times (mainly, college and law school); I couldn''t imagine life without him, and it just seemed unquestionable that we would get married. So I didn''t really push it until we were 4 years in, and kind of asked him officially "what are we doing here?" I mean, we had had vague talks about being together in the future and raising a family, but it wasn''t ever anything concrete. But by that point, I had graduated law school and all my friends were starting to get married and start their careers - friends who had met their respective significant others 2 years later than I had met mine!

Talking about the future made him jittery; he swore he loved me and that ultimately he wanted to be with me ... but there was always a bit of hesitation, and we couldn''t ever agree on anything concrete. Soon I started to realize WHY I wanted to be engaged to him -- it wasn''t because I loved him; it was because I felt I deserved it for being with him so long. That would legitimize everything. It started to sink in that we had grown apart in those 5 years. Perhaps if we had started dating later, we would have gotten married. But we had just been through a lot together, including life-changing experiences, and even though for some couples that would cause them to grow together, it left us drifting apart and wanting new challenges.

So after 5 years, I called it off. It was tough, but mainly because I still loved him for who he was and couldn''t imagine my life without him. We are now great friends. I then dated a series of REAL jerks - 2 guys in particular who caused me to lose my confidence completely.

And then, out of nowhere, I met my S.O. I know this isn''t how it always happens, but I''ve been blessed in that his commitment has never been questionable; after a few months of dating he and I both started talking about marriage mutually.

I know this is long-winded and probably some of it isn''t applicable to you - just wanted to let you know I was in a similar situation at a similar age to you. Things will work out - I promise - even if it''s not in a way you can foresee at this very moment!

 

[janinegirly]

i haven''t read all the responses, but just wanted to say don''t worry, it is NOT a race. you said these are friends from HS and college, so i imagine very young, so keep it in perspective.

it''s better to do things properly and who knows all those you know who rushed into marriage, may be the first to have problems too. substance is more important! but i know how it can be frustrating...

 

[FarFarAway]

style="WIDTH: 98.82%; HEIGHT: 98px">Date: 7/31/2007 9:40:45 AM
Author: janinegirly
i haven''t read all the responses, but just wanted to say don''t worry, it is NOT a race. you said these are friends from HS and college, so i imagine very young, so keep it in perspective.

it''s better to do things properly and who knows all those you know who rushed into marriage, may be the first to have problems too. substance is more important! but i know how it can be frustrating...

No we aren''t young anymore. We''ve all been out of college for a good while now, and in professional careers or grad programs