mall jeweler

[lara]

Ever since I''ve been bitten by the diamond bug I''ve been wandering into mall jewelery stores and others just to check things out and compare. One mall jeweler this past weekend told me "you don''t have to worry too much about cut these days because most diamonds are cut by machines and machines don''t get too far off specifications". She said this because I asked what the table and depth% were and she pointed to the diameter measurements. Then she told me that the I colored diamond would look a lot whiter outside the store because the lighting was yellowish inside? She also said the IGI was right behind GIA in credibility- is that true in your opionion(S)?

 

[pricescope]

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'you don't have to worry too much about cut these days because most diamonds are cut by machines and machines don't get too far off specifications'.
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True but machines are programmed by the cutters and in most cases cutters what to get the best weight retention.

There are very sophisticated programs (e.g. Helium developed by Sergey & Octonus) that optimize the cutting process and take into account unique shape of each piece of rough, weight retention, position of inclusions and final shape, size, cut and marketing price of polished stone(s).

Usually, cutters would try to get 1.0ct average cut stone instead of 0.95ct ideal cut.

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She also said the IGI was right behind GIA in credibility- is that true in your opionion(S)?----------------

It's either credible or not. Stones with IGI reports cost less than GIA in the industry.

 

[PlatinumDiamond]

IGI is near the bottom of the list, in my eyes, that is why most mall jewelry stores use IGI, less costly grading lab !

GIA, AGS, & EGL are the top three. MY opinion, though!

 

[pqcollectibles]

About diamond cutting, you should read this past thread.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hit-me-if-you-can.11944/

MDX talks about cutting a diamond on the first page and Paul Antwerp talks about cutting diamonds on the second page. I think you'll see, there is a lot more to cutting diamonds than turning on a machine.

Here's a thread about jewelry store lighting you might find interesting.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jewelers-lighting-whats-the-secret.9875/

As to labs, AGS and GIA are the top 2. Here is a thread that talks about the quality of diamond grading labs.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/have-igi-report-want-2nd-opinion.4304/

Hope this helps.

 

[fire&ice]

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True but machines are programmed by the cutters and in most cases cutters what to get the best weight retention.

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I'm confused to the extent of how much the machine cuts. How it cuts. & what exact machine is it. Is it just a computer model for the cutter to cut to?

I remember visting someplace in Belguim as a teen & saw the cutters cut. Very intense. Something happened to one cutters diamond & he went beserk. That's what I want to remember how diamonds are cut. The passion & emotion in it. Regarding the machines - say it ain't so?

But with the tight parameters I've seen on a few stones, machines came to mind.

 

[Griffin]

Is the IGI an actual independent lab or one of those in-house things trying to look independent?
After seeing a few of thier grading reports I just assumed they were another retailer marketing tool and wrote them off as sort of a "diploma mill" for diamonds.

 

[hoorray]

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On 1/28/2004 10:28:26 AM fire&ice wrote:

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I remember visting someplace in Belguim as a teen & saw the cutters cut. Very intense. Something happened to one cutters diamond & he went beserk. That's what I want to remember how diamonds are cut. The passion & emotion in it. Regarding the machines - say it ain't so?

But with the tight parameters I've seen on a few stones, machines came to mind.
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I've also seen the cutters in Amsterdam, and agree -- I want to think of it as an individual process, not a production mill. I have assumed it is still a pretty hands on individual process, even with the machines. Tell me it's so Leonid!

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/28/2004 10:56:25 AM lop wrote:

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On 1/28/2004 10:28:26 AM fire&ice wrote:

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I've also seen the cutters in Amsterdam, and agree -- I want to think of it as an individual process, not a production mill. I have assumed it is still a pretty hands on individual process, even with the machines. Tell me it's so Leonid!
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Come to think about it - we may have been in Amsterdam - we went to Belguim the same trip.

Yes, I would be interested to know exactly how they use the machines, what machine & to how much hands on they (the cutters) have.

 

[PlatinumDiamond]

>>>Is the IGI an actual independent lab or one of those in-house things trying to look independent? After seeing a few of thier grading reports I just assumed they were another retailer marketing tool and wrote them off as sort of a "diploma mill" for diamonds.<<<

Lab Web Sites:

EGL European Lab http://www.egl.co.za/

EGL USA Lab http://www.eglusa.com/

GIA Lab http://www.gia.org/

AGS Lab http://www.agslab.com/

IGI Lab http://www.igi-usa.com/

 

[mike04456]

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On 1/28/2004 9:07:39 AM lara wrote:











One mall jeweler this past weekend told me 'you don't have to worry too much about cut these days because most diamonds are cut by machines and machines don't get too far off specifications'.

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I think this one goes into the B&M Sales Pitch Hall of Shame with the others we discussed in that thread last week. Yes, there are plenty of manufacturers that use automated cutting machines, but it's not as simple as dropping a rough diamond into the top and getting an AGS0 out of the bottom. These machines have to be set up, calibrated, programmed, and monitored by human cutters, and as Leonid says, the cutter's goal--with a few exceptions like eightstar--is maximizing profits, not cut quality.

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/28/2004 12:18:25 PM LawGem wrote:

Yes, there are plenty of manufacturers that use automated cutting machines, but it's not as simple as dropping a rough diamond into the top and getting an AGS0 out of the bottom. ----------------

O wow!

This must be the funniest line writen on PS yet! I really hope it will never happen

On word though: premium cuts must be getting some profit for their makers. Would you say that this is enough to call a breack on the old wisedom that "cutting for beauty is not cutting for profit" ?

 

[NY SPARKLE]

Lara ---Do not walk away from the mall store--RUN!!! Do a search on IGI. You will see the opinions. And the funniest thing was the "jewler"(loose use of term) telling you that the I color will look better outside the store because the store lights are yellowish

--AS IF!!!

 

[valeria101]

The one jewelry store with BAD lighting! This is a new one... If the stone has fluorescence, tha it would look whiter in sunlight, I guess. Otherwise this instructions (go out to see it) remain misterious indeed.

 

[lara]

Don't worry, I'm not planning to buy anything there. I just feel more comfortable walking in to just look at diamonds at a place like that than say, Tiffanys or something. And after reading up on stuff on this forum and elsewhere, I knew that most of what she was saying was misinformation. But I don't think anyone else in there knew that! She did say, though, that my diamond was a lot nicer than anything she could show me! This was after a half hour or so of feeding me lines!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/28/2004 12:18:25 PM LawGem wrote:

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On 1/28/2004 9:07:39 AM lara wrote:











One mall jeweler this past weekend told me 'you don't have to worry too much about cut these days because most diamonds are cut by machines and machines don't get too far off specifications'.

----------------

I think this one goes into the B&M Sales Pitch Hall of Shame with the others we discussed in that thread last week. Yes, there are plenty of manufacturers that use automated cutting machines, but it's not as simple as dropping a rough diamond into the top and getting an AGS0 out of the bottom.
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Ha....this is CLASSIC! Yet another moronic attempt to misinform the customer. I LOVE your reply to this, LG.....totally true.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/28/2004 12:43:38 PM valeria101 wrote:

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On 1/28/2004 12:18:25 PM LawGem wrote:

....and as Leonid says, the cutter's goal--with a few exceptions like eightstar--is maximizing profits, not cut quality ----------------

On word though: premium cuts must be getting some profit for their makers. ----------------

Hi, Val......of course the premium cuts make a profit WHEN they sell......but not everyone wants a premium cut.

The cutter's goal of maximizing profit means not only weight retention but also cutting stones according to what the market demands. There just isn't enough demand for premium cuts to warrant sacrificing weight retention and average make stones.

We see it all the time here.....we've seen guys who come here and say "I need a 1 ct. diamond.", blah blah. You can explain until you're blue in the face that the .93 stone that's well-cut has the same diameter and better performance than the 1.01 average cut stone.....he doesn't care.

He cares that his girl will see on paper that he got a 1 ct., and that's all he cares about. If that's what he's looking to buy, that's what the cutter has to supply in order to realize profit.