Men: please involve your ladies in the process...

[ladykemma]

I have the day off, meaning I don't have to go anywhere or do anything. For fun, I have been doing a search on "disappointment", "brat", "guilty". Yes, I am trying to stir up debate on this issue, so everyone be polite. I am a troll today.

There are quite a few stomach churning posts on women getting something positively dreadful, not considered PS quality, or considered too small. Some of the posts made me angry, as in "What a spoiled brat!" and made me take the guy's side. Some of the posts made me want to cry for the lady.

Guys, if you don't want to be in this situation, establish the budget togther and shop for the ring together. I think it would eliminate a lot of resentment, honest mistakes, and trouble. Ladies, please don't create a "setup" where he is supposed to magically read your mind, and then be disappointed with what he brings home. I see this daily on the LIW forum.

Personally, I am biased toward the frugal side of things, and encourage cash only. I also encourage paying for the house first.

OK - jump in! please post your stories.

 

[Blenheim]

I''m probably the most recent example of this. I''m not sure which way you reacted to my posts or my situation, but I''ll explain the best I can what happened.

My fiance has been asking me questions since December because he wanted to be sure to get something that I would like. There wasn''t any one particular thing that I had my heart set on, but he knew what several of my favorite rings were. We had agreed that he would choose which one. I thought that I had been emphasizing cut, but I learned afterwards that I thought I was stressing it more than he thought I was. I''m not sure if there was some sort of miscommunication.

When he proposed, I was just so ecstatic that he had asked me that the ring was secondary. Later, I had very mixed feelings about it. On paper, it sounded exactly like one of the dream rings that I had described to him: an RB set in a YG x-prong. Yet sometimes I would absolutely love it, and sometimes I would resent it. I even had a nightmare about it, after doing a Pricescope search on the store he bought it from just before bedtime. (A lot of the returned posts had titles like "Was I scammed?" even though most weren''t referring to the same store.) Without realizing it at the time, I started to steer clear of Rocky Talky and SMTR. I kept trying to tell myself that it was some sort of buyers remorse.

I finally figured out where my different emotions were coming from. On paper, it was perfect (minus the cut). But it didn''t make my heart go pitter patter. It wasn''t what I had expected, and I resented it a little bit for that. But because it was perfect on paper and because it came from him, I wasn''t really letting myself own up to my emotions. I felt like I was being a brat by not appreciating it.

Someone pointed out that it wasn''t like he gave me a marquise after I specifically told him not to. He gave me what he thought I would like. It was a hard decision for me.

As a bit of background, for Christmas he gave me the Desperate Housewives DVDs. He knew that I watched the show religiously, and thought that I''d love to have them. The problem was that my tendency to be a math nerd naturally separates me from some of my friends, and that Desperate Housewives is a way to reconnect with them. I watched it because of the company much more than for the actual show. I finally decided to tell him that I mainly watched it for those reasons, and what would he think of choosing something that we would want to watch together? He was very glad that I had told him instead of covering it up. Later, before proposing, he told me that he wanted me to tell him if I didn''t competely love the ring.

Between our history and my fear of resenting the ring even more, I finally decided to tell him. As you may have read in my LIW posts, he initially was upset. The next day, we went to some B&Ms to look at ideal cuts. At that point he realized why I had been emphasizing cut, and came to the conclusion that we should at least exchange the diamond. We are currently working with Quest.

 

[Dancing Fire]

GUYS!!!

rule #1....never try too surprise your GF with a mounted e-ring unless,your''re 1000% sure she likes that style or else you''re just wasting time and money at the end.

 

[klavigne]

Romance is official dead!!!

 

[strmrdr]

I will say what I always say that if the ring isnt good enough then nether is the gal and run.

For the gal if the guy didnt get anywhere close then run it means he didnt care enough to put the time and effort in.

Whatever floats other peoples boats is kewl but thats my feelings on it.

 

[Blenheim]

Storm, if my mom had taken your advice, I never would have been born.

In an ideal world, the man would give the woman a ring that she loved and she wouldn''t want to change anything about it. But when has anything in this world truly been ideal?

I think that people also view engagement rings in different ways. To some people, they''re purely a symbol of the love between the couple. But there is a material aspect. Although my parents did fairly well for themselves, both came from backgrounds were money was very scarce. Their attitudes have rubbed off on me, and I often feel guilty about larger purchases. I feel especially guilty if I don''t LOVE the larger purchase.

I just reread some of what I wrote over the weekend, and I''m still not sure if I was accurate. I felt some sort of resentment, but I''m not sure who it was directed at. I''m often hard on myself, and probably a lot of my resentment was really directed at me.

I also got the feeling that my fiance wasn''t entirely happy with the ring. He wanted to get me what I really wanted, but honestly didn''t think he could afford it. He told me at least three times BEFORE he proposed that I could update as soon as he had more money in the bank. I never specified what size of diamond I wanted, so it wasn''t like he thought I wanted a 3 carat and a half carat was the most he could afford.

And I hope that Klavigne''s romance is dead comment wasn''t directed at me...

I''m kicking myself enough without anyone else having to do it for me.

 

[ephemery1]

This topic really strikes a chord with me, because for the past year, my boyfriend had been insistent on wanting to plan and find the ring on his own. He LOVES surprises and really wanted to prove to me that he could find something I loved. But in the meantime, I was having actual nightmares about him devoting all this time and effort and money

to selecting a ring that may not have been my first choice. Finally, he decided it would be in BOTH our best interests to make me part of the search as well... which I was thrilled about.

But if he HAD done it on his own...

Would I have loved what he got me? Of course.
Would I have appreciated every minute spent searching and dollar spent purchasing and the sentiment behind it all? More than anything.
Would I have felt eternally guilty if, after all that, I spent the occasional morning browsing PS and feeling twinges of regret about not having my absolute dream ring? Um, YES. And eternal guilt sucks.

Moral of the story, I agree that if a guy wants to do it on his own, he needs to be VERY clear on what will make his GF happiest. (Obviously, within reason... I'd love a 5ct cushion, but we both know that's not really possible right now... so when I say "dream ring", that is contingent on its being reasonable for us.) And if she would like to participate in the search, I would suggest he let go of his need for total control and let her be a part of it! The proposal can still be just as wonderful, whether or not the ring itself comes as a total surprise. And if he DOES insist on doing it himself: the simpler the better.

A non-PS example: we were at a wedding this weekend with two other couples that had just gotten engaged. The first girl has very simple taste and her fiance chose a simple RB solitaire based on her hints and friends' recommendations. Perfect. She spent most of the weekend shyly watching it catch the light and admiring it happily when she thought no-one else was looking.

The second girl had a VERY ornate princess cut ring with large side stones, pave, and filigree. IMHO, way overdone... it would have taken a very unique taste to choose it. Her now-fiance was almost gleeful about the fact that he had chosen this all by himself, based solely on the fact that she liked princess cuts. The girl, on the other hand, kept her hand hidden down by her side most of the weekend and forced a smile everytime he commented on it or showed someone. Definitely no happy glances out of the corner of her eye.

So as for whether or not romance is dead... personally, I'd MUCH rather feel genuine happiness each time I look at my ring than feel obliged to fake it for the sake of "romance". And Blen, for what it's worth, I think you handled your situation beautifully and have no reason to feel any sort of guilt about being honest with the person you're going to spend the rest of your life with! Sounds to me like you guys have a wonderful, solid relationship... and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[SoonIHope]

Blen, I really really HOPE he wasn''t talking to you!!!!

I agree 100% with LadyKemma, and while I expect a girl to be grateful and appreciative of any huge gift which is bestowed upon her, I also am outraged to see how little concern so many guys seem to have for their fiancee''s tastes! Why would anyone want to start an engagement out on the wrong foot when it would be so easily preventable???

I think Blen is a perfect example of why guys should be open to discussing with their girlfriends, because no girl should have to be in Blen''s position. You can see that she was genuinely excited by the proposal and thrilled to spend the rest of her life with her fiance, but still conflicted about her feelings towards the ring. Having feelings like this does not make a girl a brat or spoiled or ungrateful...she will have this ring for the rest of her life and it is symbolic of her relationship and her love for her fiance. Why WOULDN''T you want to have nothing but good feelings about it??

I really like one of the stock LIW analogies: if it was traditional for the girl to buy her fiance a computer or a car as an engagement present, what guys out there would happily accept whatever their girlfriends'' happened to surprise them with?? Just because you care about your video card or your engine or whatever doesn''t mean you love your GIRLFRIEND any less, it means you have specific preferences with regard to what material objects you like. It''s the same for a girl - we may be 100% positive that we have the GUY we want to spend the rest of our lives with, but that shouldn''t mean we have to settle for a ring we''re not happy with!!!!

Not as a money issue AT ALL, but simply a style issue. Taking into account what priorities your girlfriend has with regard to the stone color/clarity/shape and setting is THE MOST romantic thing you can do in my opinion, because you are showing her that YOU WANT TO MAKE HER HAPPY!!! There can still be elements of surprise if that is important to you, by narrowing rings down to a few different options or most importantly the entire proposal which can be up to you, but your fiancee is the one who is going to be asked a million times "let me see the ring!!" and if you really care about her, you''ll want her to get all flustered and excited and proud as she shows it off. Not proud because hers is bigger than anyone else''s, but proud because she loves it and she knows you did your best to make her happy.

Whew, I''m done now!

 

[klavigne]

Hey Blen,
My comments were directed at the sad state of society in general, not at all towards you or you''re situation. In fact when I typed that, your comments weren''t even up yet, you must have been in the middle of typing it. I just think it''s soo sad that now-a-days there isn''t even a chance for a guy to try and do something spontaneous. And damn him for even trying, hence romance is dead, heck, chivalry isn''t far behind either! I held a door for two young girls the other day and as they passed by I overheard them comment on how I must be hoping to get one of their numbers.
I just feel sorry for all the guys out there trying to be a nice guy and do the right thing, it seems to me that 95% of the women out there don''t appreciate it! And the ones who do are the only ones worth keeping around. Just my 2 bits!

 

[KristyDarling]

Romance is dead? I think it all boils down to what type of woman you are:

Type 1) a lady who is NOT a gung-ho die-hard obssessive jewelry lover. Type 1 is most likely the type of woman for whom a surprise ring would go over just fine....as long as you respect her general likes and dislikes.

Type 2) The polar opposite of type 1. We are VERY particular about what we like and don''t like, and would much rather be involved in selecting our e-rings.

Determine which type your woman is and then make your ring-shopping decisions based on that. For a type 1 lady, you could obtain hints from her friends/family or the lady herself about the type of ring she likes and then just buy the ring on your own....she''ll probably love what you choose as long as you''ve followed her general likes/dislikes. For a type 2 lady, take her along for ring-shopping (she''ll LOVE the process) and then let her choose one....or if you want to incorporate some element of surprise, ask her to choose her top 2 or 3 faves and then you would choose the final ring to be presented at the actual proposal. Or, let her choose the final ring and then you can dream up a mind-bogglingly romantic proposal idea that will sweep her off her feet!

Either way, there IS a way to create a romantic and memorable proposal, whether or not the lady is involved in picking the ring. It''s the proposal itself that is most meaningful. And with regard to the ring, being thoughtful enough to acknowledge the type of woman she is (1 or 2 as above) is romantic as well!

 

[Mara]

i guess it just depends on your idea of romance!!

my husband is romantic in many ways that are small but significant. however when it comes to a big decision like an e-ring or something that i'd own/drive/wear for the rest of my life (or the next few years

), he knows me well enough and respects me enough to know what i want and what i would be most pleased with. i don't mean size of the e-ring or anything but rather, what would make me happiest. that means he consults me on big things like the e-ring...because he knows i am happiest when i am involved.

anyhow i think that it is totally up to the couple themselves as to how they mesh and work together, some gals don't WANT to be involved, some gals do. some guys don't want them involved, some guys do. for me it just really comes down to, how aligned is the couple in what they want. it would have been very hard for me if greg was like 'no i don't want you involved at all, it's my purchase for you'...because that's not how *I* am. but then again if he was like that about the ring, chances are he'd be like that in general (aka more about wanting to have the last say or make the decisions alone), and we probably wouldn't have even made it to the engagement process because we would have clashed on other things long before that.

not saying that one way or another is right or wrong, only that i think a couple should be aligned with what their priorities are...aka if the girl wants to be involved i would hope that the guy didn't just shut her down entirely. and vice versa.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Whoever said the thing about a girl buying a guy a car as a surprise had it totally right! It''s just too big of a thing not to get input! The proposal can be a complete surprise and the ring can be a surprise..within some preset limits. The girl can tell him the metal she likes and show him a few settings (preferably links to exact settings), diamond shapes, and tell him the 4 C''s she likes. He can then make choices that will be pleasing to her. Now there are guys on here who know far more about the C''s because they have been reading PS. And that''s fine. But they at least need to know the setting and stone shape she likes. If he inisists on making it a complete surprise, then I''d recommend getting the best stone he can afford and having it set in a $120. 14k gold setting which can be changed to one of her preference after the proposal.

I think Blenheim handled her situation perfectly. And the fact that they resolved the situation in a postive way is a very good sign for the marriage. This is just one of many issues that will come their way over time!

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 5/15/2006 2:39:00 PM
Author: KPL
Hey Blen,
My comments were directed at the sad state of society in general, not at all towards you or you're situation. In fact when I typed that, your comments weren't even up yet, you must have been in the middle of typing it. I just think it's soo sad that now-a-days there isn't even a chance for a guy to try and do something spontaneous. And damn him for even trying, hence romance is dead, heck, chivalry isn't far behind either! I held a door for two young girls the other day and as they passed by I overheard them comment on how I must be hoping to get one of their numbers.
I just feel sorry for all the guys out there trying to be a nice guy and do the right thing, it seems to me that 95% of the women out there don't appreciate it! And the ones who do are the only ones worth keeping around. Just my 2 bits!

I think guys (and girls) have plenty of opportunity for spontaneity in their relationships, should they like to take it. How about bringing home flowers on a random Tuesday evening? Or planning a weekend getaway? Or just doing the dishes one night when it's the other person's turn? But presenting somebody with a multi-thousand dollar purchase without any prior input or consideration? I think sometimes spontaneous can collide with imprudent.

And I like to think I'm one of the girls who is worth keeping around, but unfortunately I can't even tell you how many times a "nice" guy has held a door for me, or paid me a compliment, or given up a seat on the bus... only to follow-up with an unwelcome advance or sleazy comment. You say the majority of women out there are unappreciative... well I say the majority of men out there are the reason why! So do the snotty women cause the bitter men? Or do the sleazy men cause the jaded women? Maybe it's a chicken-or-egg thing... who knows which came first...

Anyway, I guess it all depends on your definition of romance... to me, romance is when my boyfriend makes an effort to understand me for who I am and what makes me happy... not for what a DeBeers commercial tells him it should be. But that's just me!

ETA: I'm glad KPL shared those opinions and don't mean to be nit-picking. Just a touchy subject for me, as I've spent time resolving some guilt about my strong-mindedness when it comes to these kind of things, and hate when other people (like Blen) feel guilty too!

 

[Allisonfaye]

I don''t agree that romance is dead. I believe that with the $$ that you are going to spend, you want to get it right. There are so many more choices now in settings and in cuts than there used to be and chances to get it wrong.

Sometimes I think romantic gestures can be more about the man than the woman. For example, I had a boyfriend once who was ''romantic'' and often brought me flowers at work. Upon some introspection one day, he admitted to me that he just enjoyed the attention of my office coworkers commenting on HIM bringing flowers than doing something nice for me. I am not saying some romantic gestures are not heartfelt and sincere but when you are laying out several thousand $$, don''t you want to be sure?

Lady commented on the brats that she had encountered on here and I am sure there are some (maybe myself included) but there are some guys who are not thinking of their lady as much as their own selfish need to be in control of the outcome.

I do see many guys on here whose hearts are truly in the right place.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 5/15/2006 2:39:00 PM
Author: KPL
I just think it''s soo sad that now-a-days there isn''t even a chance for a guy to try and do something spontaneous. And damn him for even trying, hence romance is dead

Remember those awesome days when women decided to "spontaneously" suprise their husband or boyfriends with PREGNANCY! Boy was THAT ever ROMANTIC. A girl can''t get away with that kind of SUPRISE today -- I can''t believe you ungrateful modern guys don''t appreciate a nice BABY! I mean - they''re so CUTE and everything. Sure, you have to LIVE WITH THEM FOREVER - but, SUPRISE!

I, for one, wouldn''t even CONSIDER marrying someone who valued their own whimsical "spontaneity" over my long-term happiness. That''s not ROMANCE. That''s SELFISHNESS disguised as romance. The same way people give you gifts that THEY THEMSELVES want. Or as an "expression" of themselves instead of what they think the recipeient might want. DON''T BOTHER. I have closets of crap that "expresses" other people & their clearance-sale whims. I''d much rather have a HUG, or a card, or a phone call. I don''t even want STUFF. And personally am sick to death of pretentious, manipulative GIVERS.

Romance is dead? THOUGHTFULNESS is dead. Or at least on its last gasps.

 

[SoonIHope]

Thank you Deco.

 

[Hest88]

It is romantic when a man tries his darndest to surprise his GF with something he''s sure she''ll love; it is *not* romantic for him to surprise her with something that he thinks is ultra-cool, with the expectation that as long as he loves it she should as well!

 

[Blenheim]

Thank you, girls. Between talking to my fiance about this and then coming back to hear your opinions, I feel a lot better again.

Ephemery: your breakdown of how you would feel really sums up what I was going through.

Deco:

One thing that my FI wanted me to add to the discussion: How you go about expressing your thoughts really does make a difference. I only expressed doubts and told him that I wanted to compare it to other diamonds. Then either my mind would be put at ease or my doubts would be verified while we were still in the return period. He saw the visual differences and he was the one who decided that he wanted me to have an ideal cut.

 

[anchor31]

I don''t agree that romance is dead or if the woman doesn''t like the ring she''s not worth it (

). Come on... it''s not because you know the girl that you know exactly what she wants for her ring...

The way I see it, the guy choosing the ring thing is just a cliché spread by the media. In reality, a lot of women choose their own rings. My mom chose it and she got engaged in 1973, so it''s nothing new.

When J and I first started talking about getting engaged, he wanted to pick it out himself. We looked at ring designs online and I quickly realised his taste is definitely not the same as mine. He likes original designs, modern and one-of-a-kind things. I like classic, old-fashioned styles. He likes princess cuts. I want a round. So, I told him that since I am going to wear this ring for the rest of my life, I would like to at least give him choices to pick out from. He finally decided to take me shopping, and it was a great experience! We''re going to meet with a designer possibly next week-end, and neither of us can wait. It is very romantic to do this together! And the proposal itself will still be a surprise...

Honestly, what''s more romantic? Surprising your girl with a ring you picked out that she will possibly not like, or surprising your girl with the ring she helped you design and that you know she will adore for the rest of her life? And it''s not because she doesn''t like the ring that she doesn''t like her guy! Would you rather she disliked the ring and wore it even if she doesn''t like it?

 

[Odilia]

I don''t have much to add to what so many others have. I especially agree with Mara, that it does depend on the people involved. Some girls would be thrilled with just any ring, and some care more about which ring. The suggestion someone made that if you''re not sure, put something in the least expensive solitaire setting and let her change it is good. (assuming she can also change the stone, or that you knew what type of stone she liked) And another possibility is to get something returnable. e.g. some stores have a 30-day return policy, so the man could get something beautiful he thinks she would love, surprise her with it, and emphasize to her that he won''t mind at all if she returns it and gets something of comparable price. I especially like this option because it gives you time to wear it, whereas some girls might think they like something but change their mind once they actually wear it. Plus the man can always propose with something else, a beautiful necklace or other jewelry, even a ring from a cracker jack box

(as long as she immediately knows it''s not the final thing!

) Or he could let her pick the ring and then he keeps it until he''s ready to surprise her with its presentation. Or let her narrow it down to several she likes and then surprise her with the one he picks of those. My DH didn''t propose with anything at all, but he is very romantic in many ways.

There are plenty of ways to make it romantic and surprising, without forcing a girl to wear something she hates every day for the rest of her life with an eternal guilt-trip to boot for not loving the ring that was not her type at all.

 

[jas]

It''s such a delicate issue, isn''t it? My BF, while (as far as I know) is only absent-mindedly looking at rings, he was upset when I looked at what he was looking at. Not because he''s selfish, but because (and I speak only for him) he believes it is romantic. He has the fairy tale notion of me just automatically loving what he picks out. (Which is where I can see troubles brewing for a lot of couples.) For him, also, it is a question of my trusting him to know my tastes.

Fortunately, he has good taste, and from the glimpses I got, better taste than I. However, I guess the point is, in my mind and perhaps the minds of some other...what IF the unthinkable happens -- the fairy tale ring that he loves and achingly designed to a dream ring appears to HER as though it is nothing more than a diamond-encrusted anal polyp?

Do men consider this? It seems they do. Then, the trust issue becomes -- can you tell a man that the dream ring looks like a medical condition? Will he be crestfallen? Will this explode into something more than what it is? In other words, what for her is a question of taste and love for a piece of jewelry that is meant to symbolize a huge committment becomes to him an event where he feels he let her down or misjudged her.

Again, as so many of you have wisely pointed out, it is a question of communication. You can communicate ahead of the purchase (anywhere from obtuse hinting to joining him in the design), or afterwards. THe post-purchase commincation will either be an honest "I love it!" a dishonest "I love it!" (where one or both partners will eventually feel let down) or some middle ground of honesty presented in a way where both partners remember why the ring was purchased in the first place.

Heh. I said anal polyps. Sorry, sometimes I''m 4 years old.

 

[firebirdgold]

Perhaps I'm one of the ones who wants the impossible. But I want my guy to pick a ring that I'll love that also speaks to him since it's a symbol of our love and a symbol of his promise to marry me. A joint thing. I very much would love to go ring shopping with him and try on different rings but to leave the final decision to him.
Quite frankly, I'd be willing to leave more of it up to him if I didn't suspect that diamonds are nothing more than an overpriced hunk of carbon to him.

I'm not all that picky and (within reason) I'm sure I'll love anything he chooses. Not that long ago I stopped in at a local family-owned jewelry store in a mall and tried on a 14k .5tcw three stone trellis ring. I'm sure they weren't ideal cut, but they were white and very sparkly in a pretty setting. And that's really all I want. Something pretty and sparkly that he gives to me with a glow in his eyes that outshines any diamond that ever existed.

ETA: of course he's said that too much input from me would 'take the fun out of it'. huh?? I'm really really looking forward to him getting back from this latest conference and getting some work cleared away, so he's in a good frame of mind to have a serious discussion about where we stand on the ring.

I do not even know if he's amenable to ring window-shopping together.
Believe me, at this point as long as what he surprises me with is as pretty as that $1300 mall ring, I'll be very happy.

 

[LizzieC]

I''m 100% happy that I was 100% involved in the process. Actually FI was barely involved in the process and I think he preferred it that way. He gave me a very specific budget range (no lower than X, no higher than Y) and basically let me pick what I wanted. FI would never ever ever have picked my e-ring out himself. He didn''t even like the look of it in pics when I told him it was the one. But once he saw it in real life he agreed that it was perfect for me. While some surprises are nice, when it''s something as large scale as an e-ring, I think that it''s important that the woman have a LOT of say.

 

[dbgaap]

We loved window-shopping for rings together. Once we decided to get engaged, we gradually started planning when & how.
It was soooo romantic. I do remember there being quite a bit of stress, too, but ... that was just part of the whole thing.
I looked at ps constantly back then, and he was so busy at work that he never really learned about the 4 c's.

The day we went to make the actual purchase (yep, we even did that together) he had been up since 5am getting a crash course in diamonds. We had already picked out a stone and he was just doing some last minute research online to validate our choice. He pulled out a spreadsheet he'd made, with a bunch of diamonds stats!
I swear, my heart melted.

Well, that's just how we are. Very much alike in some ways!
We still go jewlery shopping (he looks at watches) for fun.
It is still romantic.......

 

[Mandarine]

I think it totally depends on the couple...and on the culture.

So much attention is put in the actual ring here. I can understand it, but it''s just not me. To me it is still a symbol and is the start of a new life together.

I also can understand why some girls like to be part of the process...so if the guy is ok with that then who''s to say that''s wrong?

I''m not part of the process and I don''t want to be. When I first joined PS I started doing some research and wondering if I should hint to my BF that I wanted to be involved, but the truth is I didn''t want to be. I''m completely happy with not being part of the process...I want to look at my ring for the first time when he''s the one that gives it to me....so I can see the look in his face and he can see the look in mine. That''s me, that''s my choice.

So...I say every couple is different and every couple should do what makes *them* happy!

M~

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/15/2006 3:06:58 PM
Author: ephemery1

I think guys (and girls) have plenty of opportunity for spontaneity in their relationships, should they like to take it. How about bringing home flowers on a random Tuesday evening? Or planning a weekend getaway? Or just doing the dishes one night when it''s the other person''s turn? But presenting somebody with a multi-thousand dollar purchase without any prior input or consideration? I think sometimes spontaneous can collide with imprudent.

EXCEPTIONALLY WELL SAID, EPH!

The "romance" isn''t in the selecting of the ring, but rather the giving of the ring and asking for her hand in marriage.

 

[bar01]

Date: 5/15/2006 2:56:11 PM
Author: KristyDarling
Romance is dead? I think it all boils down to what type of woman you are:

Type 1) a lady who is NOT a gung-ho die-hard obssessive jewelry lover. Type 1 is most likely the type of woman for whom a surprise ring would go over just fine....as long as you respect her general likes and dislikes.

Type 2) The polar opposite of type 1. We are VERY particular about what we like and don't like, and would much rather be involved in selecting our e-rings.

Determine which type your woman is and then make your ring-shopping decisions based on that. For a type 1 lady, you could obtain hints from her friends/family or the lady herself about the type of ring she likes and then just buy the ring on your own....she'll probably love what you choose as long as you've followed her general likes/dislikes. For a type 2 lady, take her along for ring-shopping (she'll LOVE the process) and then let her choose one....or if you want to incorporate some element of surprise, ask her to choose her top 2 or 3 faves and then you would choose the final ring to be presented at the actual proposal. Or, let her choose the final ring and then you can dream up a mind-bogglingly romantic proposal idea that will sweep her off her feet!

Either way, there IS a way to create a romantic and memorable proposal, whether or not the lady is involved in picking the ring. It's the proposal itself that is most meaningful. And with regard to the ring, being thoughtful enough to acknowledge the type of woman she is (1 or 2 as above) is romantic as well!

Well said !

There are different types of women out there.

My gal was Type 1A - no preferences what so ever, not into Jewelry at all (well back then - she is spoiled now). In any case I asked several time if she had ANY preferences and she said no. She was thrilled with the ring and more importantly to her - the way I proposed.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/15/2006 4:19:10 PM
Author: Hest88
It is romantic when a man tries his darndest to surprise his GF with something he's sure she'll love; it is *not* romantic for him to surprise her with something that he thinks is ultra-cool, with the expectation that as long as he loves it she should as well!

I have to agree with this. Plus, some men just feel that just because they spent $X0000 a woman should love it. That's like saying that just because a huge gass guzzling SUV and a two seater sports car cost the same a guy shouldn't have a preference which one he gets if the woman he loves is buying it for him. If he's driving it, he gets a say. If he cares. Doesn't mean he loves her any less if he picks the hybrid sedan he saw at the dealership down the street. It's a present, for HIM. He should love it. Even if she thinks the sedan is a little boring.

I'm a type 2.

Personally, I am glad my fiance involved me in the process. He gave me a budget. I picked out two cuts I liked, picked out what specs I wanted (color, size, clarity) and found a couple of jewelers. He took my preferences and found a couple jewelers of his own. Asked me to pick a setting (couldn't find one I liked so I defaulted to a 14K x-prong and a higher diamond color). He went a picked out the best diamond that was brought in for him (worked with three jewelers, in three states for the diamonds. Went to all three to see the diamonds in person), and picked the proposal date and proposal setting and it did surprise me. I didn't know what cut of diamond I was getting, what the ring looked like all put together, or when he was going to give it to me.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 5/15/2006 10:11:05 PM
Author: Mandarine
I think it totally depends on the couple...and on the culture.

So much attention is put in the actual ring here. I can understand it, but it''s just not me. To me it is still a symbol and is the start of a new life together.

I also can understand why some girls like to be part of the process...so if the guy is ok with that then who''s to say that''s wrong?

I''m not part of the process and I don''t want to be. When I first joined PS I started doing some research and wondering if I should hint to my BF that I wanted to be involved, but the truth is I didn''t want to be. I''m completely happy with not being part of the process...I want to look at my ring for the first time when he''s the one that gives it to me....so I can see the look in his face and he can see the look in mine. That''s me, that''s my choice.

So...I say every couple is different and every couple should do what makes *them* happy!

M~

I guess the romantic ideals (no pun intended) are different on each side. Many women wanting their guy to deliver the "perfect" ring. Many guys wanting what Mandarine describes: their women to treasure the ring because of what it stands for. There''s a lot of space between these 2 ideals.

Z.

 

[Mandarine]

I really also think it depends on the country. Most people back home do get a ring, but they consider it a symbol....thinking back most people don''t even wear their e-rings!.

I''ve gotten a little "americanized" hehe so I''m in between. I will wear my ring and do love looking at other people''s ring and all that....but I still think it is a symbol and will love it because of that.

I also agree that it depends on the taste and personality of the girl...I want something simple, and I''m not a huge jewerly fan...so I did drop a hint that I wanted something simple...but that''s it. If your girl likes antiques, a specific cut, a specifc style or something in particular then I think it should be up to the girl to be up-front and say what she expects form the beginning. I think to just expect that the guy will include the girl is not fair...if he didn''t know what kind of girl she is (type 1 or type 2) then how would he know?

He might go on his search assuming she just wants to be surprised...and then be caught up in a bad situation...and let''s face it, most girls know when the engagement is coming...(because of those pre-engagement "talks")...so instead of saying "Men: please involve your ladies in the process..." I would say "Ladies: If you want to be included then speak up!"

M~