Michigan and Florida-Democrats

[FrekeChild]

I''m kind of at a loss for what to do in this situation.

I''m a staunch Obama supporter, and most of that is because:
a. Hillary should not count her 8 years in the White House as "experience". (C''mon-planning state dinners does NOT count!)
b. I think the not planning past Super Tuesday was a huge mistake.
c. Saying that she''ll ask Obama to be VP when she''s the nominee. Hello? You''re not even ahead with the delegates! What makes her think she''s going to win?
d. Her whole campaign has been poorly run, and I think Bill Clinton has something to do with it.
e. Her health care plan-while a wonderful idea-is going to be impossible to implement and she knows it, but is totally behind it because it sounds good.
f. I don''t want 4 years of Bush, 8 years of Clinton, 8 years of Bush and another 4-8 years of Clinton. It''s starting to sound like a dual-monarchy. Why not just intermarry and make them one big happy family?
g. I don''t like Hillary as a person anymore. I think she''s a bad loser, has presented herself as being smarmy, arrogant and highly volatile.

But, even though I''m a Obama backer, I still want Michigan and Florida''s votes to count. There is no way the votes from January should count, because it was a completely one sided race-that she shouldn''t have been in in the first place. So I guess the reasonable answer would be to re-do the entire thing, but it''d cost 18 million and no one wants to pay!

I wonder if she hadn''t have stayed in it, if she''d still want them to count right now, because she wouldn''t have any idea of the voter outcome. All the political gurus/analysts seem to think that Clinton would win handily in Michigan and Florida-probably taking her to become the front runner.

But dang it! The voters in MI and FL deserve to have a say! So I''m conflicted, I want to votes to count but I don''t want Hillary to win.

How are you guys feeling about it?

I also want to add this: if she ends up winning because of superdelegates...

 

[AGBF]

I think they should redo the primaries and learn from this. Parties should be legally barred from refusing to seat future delegations on frivolous grounds lest they be fined in the future.


Deborah

 

[perry]

Sorry, But I disagree with you on this one:

The US Supreme Court has ruled that the parties can set the rules (this was when Wisconsin lost on its open primary).

The state parties were told in advance what the consequences would be.

All major Democratic Candidates signed a pledge that they would uphold the Democratic Party ruling and not ask for any delegates to be seated from either of these states(this includes Hilary). Obama and Edwards removed their names from the Michigan ballot as requested by the Democratic Party. Hilary claims that she did not have time.

It was common knowledge - and widely reported in the press in each state - that their primaries would not count; and that the delegates would not be seated.

Thus, the vast majority of people who voted knew the score up front....

What complaint do they have? What complaint does Hillary actually have? Is it that Florida and Michigan only became important to Hillary after she needed more delegates?

Was it even a fair vote? Many people who would have voted if they knew the delegates would be seated did not even vote - as they knew the primary did not count.

How can you make any claim on Michigan where the only candidate who was on the ballot was the one who violated party rules by not removing her name.

Now do I believe that the people of Michigan and Florida deserved better. Yes I do. But, that is a separate issue and a separate debate. Their are no valid results from either Michigan or Florida; and there is nothing to use.

It also really bugs me that a person who signed a pledge to follow the party ruling on these states - and not to ask that these delegates to be seated: Has now made a big thing about this. Trust.... such a fragile thing.

Perry

 

[FrekeChild]

I agree with you perry that Hillary is only interested now that she NEEDS those votes to win. Before, she gave it up because she thought she practically already had the nomination in the bag. Now that she''s struggling, she needs all she can get, and from what she''s hearing, if Michigan and Florida were to count, they''d be voting for her.

From what I''m gathering on CNN, Florida is going to make a decision on whether or not to reschedule their primary tomorrow?

 

[MoonWater]

I feel bad for the voters, but I'm inclined to agree with this guy:

Florida and Michigan don't deserve revote

With a country in or headed toward a recession, can we afford to do this?

 

[FrekeChild]

Wow.

I really hadn''t paid any attention to Ferraro situation...what a racist woman. I can''t believe that Hillary didn''t fire her.

 

[Rank Amateur]

I think the mud should keep on flinging right up until the election!

Howard Dean didn''t bargain for this when he took over the chairmanship. What a mess.

I say leave them out. If the Dems in those States want so bad to have their votes counted they should have made themselves heard months and months ago when their States were considering the boneheaded move of the primary date. It''s too late now.

 

[FrekeChild]

Seems as though Florida does not get a "redo"....now what about Michigan?

 

[surfgirl]

I think if they knowingly broke the party rules, which they did, then no do overs. That''s ridiculous.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 3/18/2008 1:09:07 PM
Author: surfgirl
I think if they knowingly broke the party rules, which they did, then no do overs. That''s ridiculous.

Yeah, especially when you think of how much it would cost!!!

Obama just made the most amazing speech on race today. FINALLY someone is acknowleding the huge elephant in the room. I swear, if I wasn''t a supporter before, I certainly would be now.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 3/18/2008 1:09:07 PM
Author: surfgirl
I think if they knowingly broke the party rules, which they did, then no do overs. That''s ridiculous.

I do agree Surfgirl, but I still feel bad for the voters that feel like their votes won''t count at all. It''s not like they really had a say in what the party leaders did.

What do you guys think should be done about the loose delegates in FL and MI then?

I personally think they should split it all down the middle and give each candidate half and stop worrying about it. They''re almost split down the middle anyway, and it wouldn''t favor either candidate, just boost the numbers.

If super delegates end up deciding it, I''m moving to Mexico. Because that''s BS. They don''t deserve any more say than I do.