As you can see by the subject line, the story ends with the purchase of a diamond from GOG and a Mark Morrell Flame setting. It begins with me knowing absolutely nothing about diamonds, platinum quality, Pricescope or anything else to do with the diamond industry.
I do know one thing: that I want to marry my girlfriend and I love her very much. She''s smart, cute and adorable and I''m lucky to have met her, so I can''t help myself. But the process of getting a ring for her was daunting to me. There are a number of people who have been helpful to me during this process, so I wanted to thank them, as I take you on a little trip through my education about diamonds and engagement rings, both of which I''ve paid little attention to before now and have been somewhat skeptical of. As you''ll see, in this journey, Pricescope has evolved in to a central character. It''s long, so feel free to skip to the next thread if you''re not up for a story.
In two subsequent threads I''ll focus on the diamond I purchased and then the ring, once I receive it. I''d like your opinions on the diamond quality and I want to post pics of the completed Mark Morrell project, as many people here seem to like seeing the pics, so I thought it best to break those in to two separate threads. This first thread is about my travels (virtual and otherwise), which may seem familiar to many here, who may have also have taken a similar journey.
My journey starts in Toronto, where I live. When we started this process, I wanted to involve my girlfriend (she hates being referred to as a girlfriend, as it seems "less than" to her), whom I sometimes also refer to my as my partner (she hates this, too, as she feels we''re not a corporate entity). I wanted to involve her in the process but I still wanted to keep some element of surprise. A fine balance and not easy to achieve, when you want to ensure what you purchase the person is what she wants.
My partner, or girlfriend, or soon-to-be-fiance (take your pick!) did a little jewelry design herself many years ago and loves designers, so we started there. In Toronto, we went to Anne Sportun ( http://www.annesportun.com/), Richard Booth (http://www.richardbooth.ca/) and Linda Penwarden (http://www.lindapenwardenjewellery.com/); all well-regarded Toronto-based jewelers. Anne is at a different scale, does mainly signature settings and distributes more widely but her focus isn''t really diamonds, it''s design. Linda and Richard are your classic local designers with a store, a bench, a great reputation and a good client-base. All their settings were fairly priced. Anne got nixed because while my partner loved her Turkish ball setting in platinum, we were worried that the novelty might wear off as the years went on. My girlfriend is also shy, so I can''t imagine she''d like questions all the time like, "Is that an engagement ring?" Linda and Richard have some more classic designs but when we cost in diamonds, the prices shot way up. Folks, diamonds are so tiny for the price!!! In the movies, they always seem so much bigger!
As part of our education and for fun, we went to Tiffany, Birks, Royal de Versaille on Bloor, a great couple at a booth in the diamond building at Victoria, just south of Dundas, along with a really low-end chain that seemed to only carry terrible crud but was nevertheless an educational experience. I recommend everyone go to the terrible crud chain store for a well-rounded education. With the other jewelers, what I found was to get above a .65 diamond would be difficult for me. I also discovered my gf loved the classic six-prong knife-edged Tiffany setting in platinum. This veers toward my taste, too. Simple, clean, understated, well made. But, what I didn''t like were the prices, which seemed ridiculous compared to what I had already seen. And while I really liked the sales guy at Tiffany, I didn''t like that as we walked out of the store, knowing my gf was impressed, he looked at her and said, "Remember: Image." I''m not kidding. So, I knew I had to do some more research about diamond prices to see if Tiffany was fairly priced of just a ripoff, selling high quality product, nevertheless.
This led me to Bluenile, which I had never heard of before. As a start, it was a great education. It helped me understand that diamonds can be had for far cheaper than I was being quoted in these stores. And I started to learn more about the Four C''s. I also liked that Bluenile is registered in Canada, so no duties!! This makes a big difference. I narrowed in on SI1 eye clean G diamonds (as I tried to balance budget/size/quality, even though I really wanted no less than a VS2 and F). At this stage, I had little regard or understanding of cut. I also planned to get a Bluenile setting but nothing was blowing my gf away. And I knew she liked the Tiffany setting... a lot. But, she, too, thought the prices were ridiculous. So, I thought I''d get the diamond from Bluenile and the Tiffany setting from Tiffany, but Tiffany wasn''t having any of that game, as I discovered they don''t allow the setting to be purchased separately. This screamed "rip off" to me, making me less inclined to shop with Tiffany.
So, as it would happen, Google led me to Pricescope when I typed in "Tiffany Replica." And Pricescope led me to Barry at SuperCert/Excel (http://www.exceldiamonds.com/ ) after a lot of research. At this point, I didn''t stop at Pricescope, I just passed through. Excel was were I was heading and I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. I liked Barry''s approach and liked him. Very friendly. Very helpful. No B.S. and he seems very reputable, by all accounts. And his prices for diamonds seemed fair. I must say, all reports of his Tiffany Replica is that it''s a superb, high quality, well made replica. It just looks great to me in the many pics and video on their website and in reports from happy customers on Pricescope and other sites. http://www.exceldiamonds.com/-Engagement-Rings-5/Diamond-Solitaire-Engagement-Rings-11/Classic-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-640.html
I also began to learn about drop shipping, making sure my SI1 was eye-clean and suddenly realized why Bluenile was probably not the best option for me for an SI1, as they kept telling me, "we can call and ask for a verbal confirmation if it''s eye-clean and if you don''t like it, just return it." Hmmm.... So, my decision was basically made. The Tiffany Replica from Supercert/Excel. But, as I mulled over the decision, I kept thinking about my gf being repeatedly asked "Is that a Tiffany?" and she would always have to say, "No," which she would. The idea of a replica just wasn''t sitting right with me, as much as I loved it. There was also still the option of going back to Tiffany and just getting a .60 diamond in the Tiffany six-prong classic setting and suppressing the sense I''d been screwed. But, I was resisting this path as best I could, even though I knew I might end up on it.
So, my search continued, with plans to buy the diamond from Barry at Excel and sort out the setting in Toronto or find something else. During this process, I began to pop by Pricescope more and more and it kept drawing me in to threads about diamond quality. Suddenly words like "cut," "crown angle," "AGS or GIA," AGA cut," "HCA score," "Hearts and Arrows," "Sarin," and "light performance" started to register, along with many others.
At the same time, Pricescope introduced me to Mark Morrell (http://www.mwmjewelry.com/). I immediately fell in love with his Sunburst setting, Petite Sunburst and Flame settings. It was the first time during this whole process that my breath actually sucked in when I saw a setting. It was the first emotional experience I had in what had otherwise been exclusively an academic exercise. I loved that he was a custom jeweler, which I knew my gf would love, and I liked that he had a couple of signature settings, as I did not want to get in to a custom job, especially over such a great distance, as buying a very expensive product such as a diamond online and shipping it across the U.S. border was already daunting enough for me.
I ruled out the Flame as it just looked too expensive, although I loved it the most and loved the hidden diamonds, while still remaining very simple and clean. I knew my gf would feel the same. I showed my gf Mark''s site, on the pretense that she loves jewelry designers, but I said it wasn''t in the budget and I couldn''t afford to add in duties but I just wanted to show her. She loved the Surburst but adored the Flame, which she preferred to the Tiffany setting. Bingo! She and I both loved Mark''s work. Fell in love with it, is more like it. So, I cautiously emailed Mark. Katie, his daughter who is incredibly helpful, responded and I suddenly discovered that the setting might be in the budget... kind of. I also realized I''d have to increase the total budget if I was going to be able to do the diamond and setting and deal with the duties, Canadian taxes, shipping, etc.
Mark is a professional and he has a professional protocol. The idea that I''d have to buy a centre stone, which he doesn''t sell, ship it to an appraiser, who would ship it to Mark, who would then ship it back to the appraiser who would then ship it to me, across the border, was absolutely daunting (and still is, to be frank). But, I respected Mark for the level of protection it provided both me and him. As well, this was really my first introduction to the idea I could send a diamond to an appraiser before purchasing. I recommend this approach to everyone and suggest they only deal with vendors who will do this, although most folks on this forum will already know this.
So, back to Pricescope I came. My interest now was in identifying folks who had worked with Mark, so the process would be as seamless as possible for him, resulting is as few wrinkles as possible for me. This led me to White Flash, Nice Ice, Good Old Gold, with Excel still in the mix. During this time, my interest in cut was quickly escalating. I also found a couple of other vendors who had cheaper prices and called diamonds in (as I wanted to avoid a drop shipper) but wasn''t satisfied with their response.
This is also the point when I discovered Dave Atlas at AGA (http://www.gemappraisers.com/), who had dealt with Mark''s protocol for moving the diamond in and product out without directly receiving or sending to the customer. Dave, like Barry at Excel, was very helpful. And while I hated the idea of shipping a loose diamond around the U.S., I did like the idea of being able to have a diamond appraised before purchase, no matter how reputable the dealer.
So, my decision was made: Mark Morrell Flame setting and Dave Atlas appraising the diamond. Now, I just had to find the diamond.
I knew what I wanted: a ~1 carat (well, I''d love a 1.2 or 1.3 but that isn''t happening), and I had settled for an SI1 and G colour, still trying to bump up if I could. And I was quickly moving up the cut scale in to the Ideal/Excellent range. Cut was becoming very important to me. At this point, while I had decided not to use Bluenile, their advanced filters in diamond search and huge inventory was very helpful as a reference point as I searched other vendor''s sites. I discovered that the White Flash, GOG and Nice Ice''s of the world had similar prices to Bluenile based on my specs (sorry, I know some think they''re cheaper and maybe they are). But, I was fine with this, as these are also local jewelers who had the diamonds on site, I could tell they didn''t have massive margins and everyone deserves to make a fair living.
So, I started searching inventories for the proper diamond but my timelines were starting to get tight and I had to firm up the final details. As I had a decent idea of what I wanted, I contacted a few vendors at this stage: Todd at Nice Ice (http://www.niceice.com/) and Jamie at White Flash (http://www.whiteflash.com/) had some great product but not exactly what I was looking for at the price point I was now limited by. Fair enough. They were straightforward with me and didn''t try to upsell me but were also really quick in responding and helping me sort through options. Total pros. Todd went so far as to say, "I don''t have what you''re looking for, but when you find the diamond you''d like to buy, feel free to send me the docs and I''ll let you know what I think." !!! He knew he wasn''t going to make the sale and he makes that offer! Impressive! He gets my business one day!! And when I did finally narrow something down and I sent him the docs (albeit reluctantly, as I didn''t want to bother him), he was very supportive of his competitor, said he''d call in that diamond if he saw it to review it, and didn''t try to do a last minute upsell or downsell! Respect, Todd!
By this stage, my thirst for data was being quenched at GOG. Jonathan, of everyone, is the slowest to respond to an email (which is fast, by the way, just not as fast as Barry, Todd and Jamie), but always thorough in his response, as he is in the data he posts on his diamonds. I like all this data and having it freely and easily available was an important part of the sale for me. Nice Ice and GOG are great educational sites, by the way. For me, this made a huge difference in my purchase. As well, GOG had a diamond that seemed to fit the bill. So, as much as I wanted to purchase from Barry at Excel, who I will likely purchase from one day when I''m down in NYC, I just found the diamond I wanted at the point in time I needed it at GOG.
If you''re still reading, well, good for you. I''m impressed. I wanted to write about my adventure, in many ways, because I recognize that even 10 years ago, the process I''ve undergone to find a diamond and a setting, along with the information that existed in assessing a diamond just didn''t exist in the same way it does today. It''s a different world. Pricescope has also been so central in this process that I wanted to share the story with you.
I also wanted to find a small way to thank the people I''ve come in contact along way, as they were also so helpful. So, if this post sends a little business their way, so much the better.
Soon, I''ll post a thread that only focuses on the diamond I''ve purchased, for all you cut nuts. Then, once the ring arrives from Mark, I''ll post a third thread with pics. And then I''ll propose to my girlfriend, or partner or rather, I''ll propose to the woman I''ve fallen in love with who is just too good and too kind for words. And maybe I''ll write a little about that, too, if any of you are still interested in reading along.
To everyone I''ve come in contact with so far, thanks for your help.
Quash
I do know one thing: that I want to marry my girlfriend and I love her very much. She''s smart, cute and adorable and I''m lucky to have met her, so I can''t help myself. But the process of getting a ring for her was daunting to me. There are a number of people who have been helpful to me during this process, so I wanted to thank them, as I take you on a little trip through my education about diamonds and engagement rings, both of which I''ve paid little attention to before now and have been somewhat skeptical of. As you''ll see, in this journey, Pricescope has evolved in to a central character. It''s long, so feel free to skip to the next thread if you''re not up for a story.
In two subsequent threads I''ll focus on the diamond I purchased and then the ring, once I receive it. I''d like your opinions on the diamond quality and I want to post pics of the completed Mark Morrell project, as many people here seem to like seeing the pics, so I thought it best to break those in to two separate threads. This first thread is about my travels (virtual and otherwise), which may seem familiar to many here, who may have also have taken a similar journey.
My journey starts in Toronto, where I live. When we started this process, I wanted to involve my girlfriend (she hates being referred to as a girlfriend, as it seems "less than" to her), whom I sometimes also refer to my as my partner (she hates this, too, as she feels we''re not a corporate entity). I wanted to involve her in the process but I still wanted to keep some element of surprise. A fine balance and not easy to achieve, when you want to ensure what you purchase the person is what she wants.
My partner, or girlfriend, or soon-to-be-fiance (take your pick!) did a little jewelry design herself many years ago and loves designers, so we started there. In Toronto, we went to Anne Sportun ( http://www.annesportun.com/), Richard Booth (http://www.richardbooth.ca/) and Linda Penwarden (http://www.lindapenwardenjewellery.com/); all well-regarded Toronto-based jewelers. Anne is at a different scale, does mainly signature settings and distributes more widely but her focus isn''t really diamonds, it''s design. Linda and Richard are your classic local designers with a store, a bench, a great reputation and a good client-base. All their settings were fairly priced. Anne got nixed because while my partner loved her Turkish ball setting in platinum, we were worried that the novelty might wear off as the years went on. My girlfriend is also shy, so I can''t imagine she''d like questions all the time like, "Is that an engagement ring?" Linda and Richard have some more classic designs but when we cost in diamonds, the prices shot way up. Folks, diamonds are so tiny for the price!!! In the movies, they always seem so much bigger!
As part of our education and for fun, we went to Tiffany, Birks, Royal de Versaille on Bloor, a great couple at a booth in the diamond building at Victoria, just south of Dundas, along with a really low-end chain that seemed to only carry terrible crud but was nevertheless an educational experience. I recommend everyone go to the terrible crud chain store for a well-rounded education. With the other jewelers, what I found was to get above a .65 diamond would be difficult for me. I also discovered my gf loved the classic six-prong knife-edged Tiffany setting in platinum. This veers toward my taste, too. Simple, clean, understated, well made. But, what I didn''t like were the prices, which seemed ridiculous compared to what I had already seen. And while I really liked the sales guy at Tiffany, I didn''t like that as we walked out of the store, knowing my gf was impressed, he looked at her and said, "Remember: Image." I''m not kidding. So, I knew I had to do some more research about diamond prices to see if Tiffany was fairly priced of just a ripoff, selling high quality product, nevertheless.
This led me to Bluenile, which I had never heard of before. As a start, it was a great education. It helped me understand that diamonds can be had for far cheaper than I was being quoted in these stores. And I started to learn more about the Four C''s. I also liked that Bluenile is registered in Canada, so no duties!! This makes a big difference. I narrowed in on SI1 eye clean G diamonds (as I tried to balance budget/size/quality, even though I really wanted no less than a VS2 and F). At this stage, I had little regard or understanding of cut. I also planned to get a Bluenile setting but nothing was blowing my gf away. And I knew she liked the Tiffany setting... a lot. But, she, too, thought the prices were ridiculous. So, I thought I''d get the diamond from Bluenile and the Tiffany setting from Tiffany, but Tiffany wasn''t having any of that game, as I discovered they don''t allow the setting to be purchased separately. This screamed "rip off" to me, making me less inclined to shop with Tiffany.
So, as it would happen, Google led me to Pricescope when I typed in "Tiffany Replica." And Pricescope led me to Barry at SuperCert/Excel (http://www.exceldiamonds.com/ ) after a lot of research. At this point, I didn''t stop at Pricescope, I just passed through. Excel was were I was heading and I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. I liked Barry''s approach and liked him. Very friendly. Very helpful. No B.S. and he seems very reputable, by all accounts. And his prices for diamonds seemed fair. I must say, all reports of his Tiffany Replica is that it''s a superb, high quality, well made replica. It just looks great to me in the many pics and video on their website and in reports from happy customers on Pricescope and other sites. http://www.exceldiamonds.com/-Engagement-Rings-5/Diamond-Solitaire-Engagement-Rings-11/Classic-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-640.html
I also began to learn about drop shipping, making sure my SI1 was eye-clean and suddenly realized why Bluenile was probably not the best option for me for an SI1, as they kept telling me, "we can call and ask for a verbal confirmation if it''s eye-clean and if you don''t like it, just return it." Hmmm.... So, my decision was basically made. The Tiffany Replica from Supercert/Excel. But, as I mulled over the decision, I kept thinking about my gf being repeatedly asked "Is that a Tiffany?" and she would always have to say, "No," which she would. The idea of a replica just wasn''t sitting right with me, as much as I loved it. There was also still the option of going back to Tiffany and just getting a .60 diamond in the Tiffany six-prong classic setting and suppressing the sense I''d been screwed. But, I was resisting this path as best I could, even though I knew I might end up on it.
So, my search continued, with plans to buy the diamond from Barry at Excel and sort out the setting in Toronto or find something else. During this process, I began to pop by Pricescope more and more and it kept drawing me in to threads about diamond quality. Suddenly words like "cut," "crown angle," "AGS or GIA," AGA cut," "HCA score," "Hearts and Arrows," "Sarin," and "light performance" started to register, along with many others.
At the same time, Pricescope introduced me to Mark Morrell (http://www.mwmjewelry.com/). I immediately fell in love with his Sunburst setting, Petite Sunburst and Flame settings. It was the first time during this whole process that my breath actually sucked in when I saw a setting. It was the first emotional experience I had in what had otherwise been exclusively an academic exercise. I loved that he was a custom jeweler, which I knew my gf would love, and I liked that he had a couple of signature settings, as I did not want to get in to a custom job, especially over such a great distance, as buying a very expensive product such as a diamond online and shipping it across the U.S. border was already daunting enough for me.
I ruled out the Flame as it just looked too expensive, although I loved it the most and loved the hidden diamonds, while still remaining very simple and clean. I knew my gf would feel the same. I showed my gf Mark''s site, on the pretense that she loves jewelry designers, but I said it wasn''t in the budget and I couldn''t afford to add in duties but I just wanted to show her. She loved the Surburst but adored the Flame, which she preferred to the Tiffany setting. Bingo! She and I both loved Mark''s work. Fell in love with it, is more like it. So, I cautiously emailed Mark. Katie, his daughter who is incredibly helpful, responded and I suddenly discovered that the setting might be in the budget... kind of. I also realized I''d have to increase the total budget if I was going to be able to do the diamond and setting and deal with the duties, Canadian taxes, shipping, etc.
Mark is a professional and he has a professional protocol. The idea that I''d have to buy a centre stone, which he doesn''t sell, ship it to an appraiser, who would ship it to Mark, who would then ship it back to the appraiser who would then ship it to me, across the border, was absolutely daunting (and still is, to be frank). But, I respected Mark for the level of protection it provided both me and him. As well, this was really my first introduction to the idea I could send a diamond to an appraiser before purchasing. I recommend this approach to everyone and suggest they only deal with vendors who will do this, although most folks on this forum will already know this.
So, back to Pricescope I came. My interest now was in identifying folks who had worked with Mark, so the process would be as seamless as possible for him, resulting is as few wrinkles as possible for me. This led me to White Flash, Nice Ice, Good Old Gold, with Excel still in the mix. During this time, my interest in cut was quickly escalating. I also found a couple of other vendors who had cheaper prices and called diamonds in (as I wanted to avoid a drop shipper) but wasn''t satisfied with their response.
This is also the point when I discovered Dave Atlas at AGA (http://www.gemappraisers.com/), who had dealt with Mark''s protocol for moving the diamond in and product out without directly receiving or sending to the customer. Dave, like Barry at Excel, was very helpful. And while I hated the idea of shipping a loose diamond around the U.S., I did like the idea of being able to have a diamond appraised before purchase, no matter how reputable the dealer.
So, my decision was made: Mark Morrell Flame setting and Dave Atlas appraising the diamond. Now, I just had to find the diamond.
I knew what I wanted: a ~1 carat (well, I''d love a 1.2 or 1.3 but that isn''t happening), and I had settled for an SI1 and G colour, still trying to bump up if I could. And I was quickly moving up the cut scale in to the Ideal/Excellent range. Cut was becoming very important to me. At this point, while I had decided not to use Bluenile, their advanced filters in diamond search and huge inventory was very helpful as a reference point as I searched other vendor''s sites. I discovered that the White Flash, GOG and Nice Ice''s of the world had similar prices to Bluenile based on my specs (sorry, I know some think they''re cheaper and maybe they are). But, I was fine with this, as these are also local jewelers who had the diamonds on site, I could tell they didn''t have massive margins and everyone deserves to make a fair living.
So, I started searching inventories for the proper diamond but my timelines were starting to get tight and I had to firm up the final details. As I had a decent idea of what I wanted, I contacted a few vendors at this stage: Todd at Nice Ice (http://www.niceice.com/) and Jamie at White Flash (http://www.whiteflash.com/) had some great product but not exactly what I was looking for at the price point I was now limited by. Fair enough. They were straightforward with me and didn''t try to upsell me but were also really quick in responding and helping me sort through options. Total pros. Todd went so far as to say, "I don''t have what you''re looking for, but when you find the diamond you''d like to buy, feel free to send me the docs and I''ll let you know what I think." !!! He knew he wasn''t going to make the sale and he makes that offer! Impressive! He gets my business one day!! And when I did finally narrow something down and I sent him the docs (albeit reluctantly, as I didn''t want to bother him), he was very supportive of his competitor, said he''d call in that diamond if he saw it to review it, and didn''t try to do a last minute upsell or downsell! Respect, Todd!
By this stage, my thirst for data was being quenched at GOG. Jonathan, of everyone, is the slowest to respond to an email (which is fast, by the way, just not as fast as Barry, Todd and Jamie), but always thorough in his response, as he is in the data he posts on his diamonds. I like all this data and having it freely and easily available was an important part of the sale for me. Nice Ice and GOG are great educational sites, by the way. For me, this made a huge difference in my purchase. As well, GOG had a diamond that seemed to fit the bill. So, as much as I wanted to purchase from Barry at Excel, who I will likely purchase from one day when I''m down in NYC, I just found the diamond I wanted at the point in time I needed it at GOG.
If you''re still reading, well, good for you. I''m impressed. I wanted to write about my adventure, in many ways, because I recognize that even 10 years ago, the process I''ve undergone to find a diamond and a setting, along with the information that existed in assessing a diamond just didn''t exist in the same way it does today. It''s a different world. Pricescope has also been so central in this process that I wanted to share the story with you.
I also wanted to find a small way to thank the people I''ve come in contact along way, as they were also so helpful. So, if this post sends a little business their way, so much the better.
Soon, I''ll post a thread that only focuses on the diamond I''ve purchased, for all you cut nuts. Then, once the ring arrives from Mark, I''ll post a third thread with pics. And then I''ll propose to my girlfriend, or partner or rather, I''ll propose to the woman I''ve fallen in love with who is just too good and too kind for words. And maybe I''ll write a little about that, too, if any of you are still interested in reading along.
To everyone I''ve come in contact with so far, thanks for your help.
Quash
300x240.png)