My new unheated Burmese Sapphire- Opinions Please!

[mrsinaugust]

Dear Pricescope Friends,

I just received my first sapphire. Here are the specs:
2.88 carat unheated cushion-cut Burmese sapphire (with cert)
7.24x8.61x4.41mm
Purchased from WildFish Gems

This is my first sapphire, and I would appreciate your opinion!
Here are my initial thoughts:
I love the color-- I was looking for an electric-blue, "Kashmiresque" color, and the color of this stone is very pretty to my eye.
I love the size. My ring size is a 6, but I have big hands. This is for my engagement ring, and I want to set it in an antique style setting surrounded by a small halo of diamonds.
I wanted a more squarish cushion-cut stone... I''m not sure I love the more rectangular shape of this stone... I also wish it was more rounded (more of a pillow shape). Ed, who has been an absolute pleasure to work with, said it could be recut into more of a squarish shape, but that I would lose about half a carat.
My biggest concern is that there seems to be a very noticeable window. Granted, I''m no expert. This is the first sapphire I''ve studied for hours, but I don''t like how transparent it seems to be. Is this normal? Am I being too picky? Is it transparent because it''s not highly saturated, or is it a consequence of the stone''s cut?

I''m also worried that I''m being too picky for my ~5-6K stone budget. I really want an unheated, squarish cushion cut, 8-9mm sapphire with a bright blue color. I''m starting to wonder if my specs are just too specific for my price range. Thoughts?

Thank you for your opinions!

The first set of pictures was taken outside on an overcast day around midday.

 

[mrsinaugust]

 

[mrsinaugust]

(more photos outside)

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 5/2/2009 7:07:57 PM
Author:mrsinaugust
Dear Pricescope Friends,

My biggest concern is that there seems to be a very noticeable window. Granted, I''m no expert. This is the first sapphire I''ve studied for hours, but I don''t like how transparent it seems to be. Is this normal? Am I being too picky? Is it transparent because it''s not highly saturated, or is it a consequence of the stone''s cut?

It''s a beautiful shade of blue!

I have a hard time figuring out windows too....if you put the stone down on top of a newspaper, can you read the letters through the stone?

LS

 

[mrsinaugust]

Photos taken indoors under incandescent light, near large windows. Can you see the window?

 

[mrsinaugust]

Taken indoors under incandescent light... Is this too much windowing? I can definitely make out letters through the stone. I want to have it bezel set in as low a profile setting as possible-- would this cut down on the transparency?

 

[LostSapphire]

Can you post the vendor pics? And, is there one of the underside?
LS

 

[mrsinaugust]

Last set of photos-- all taken indoors under incandescent light on a white sheet of paper. I took these photos from pretty much the same position, but varying the aperture. It''s amazing how different the stone looks just moving it from room to room!

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 5/2/2009 7:17:26 PM
Author: mrsinaugust
Taken indoors under incandescent light... Is this too much windowing? I can definitely make out letters through the stone. I want to have it bezel set in as low a profile setting as possible-- would this cut down on the transparency?

So if you hold the stone straight in line with the newspaper, can you read the letters through it? ie: not on an angle but the surface of the stone parallel with the paper...it''s hard to tell from this pic because of the stone sitting on an angle.

LS

 

[mrsinaugust]

LostSapphire,

Thank you! Here is the vendor pic from Ed. I opened up a gemhunt with him, and he''s been incredibly patient and very easy to work with. He vowed to keep looking until he finds the perfect stone if this is not the one, but I''m worried that I''m asking for something too specific, and perhaps I need to reassess what is most important to me. I hate returning things, especially something that''s been chosen specifically for me. I don''t know if I could handle the guilt of returning a second stone!

 

[T L]

The cutting is really bad on that stone, very poor native cutting. For that price, I would want something a bit better cut. It doesn't have to be precision cut, but just a better native cut. There is also a significant tilt window on that stone as well. Do you think it looks "electric?" A Kashmiresque electric blue sapphire would be thousands upon thousands a carat, so depending on your budget, it might not be a possibility, especially in an unheated stone, and you obviously want a large one if you're looking for an 8 to 9mm stone.

You shouldn't feel guilty about returning stones. It's a lot of $$, and you want to make sure you get the best color, cut and all combinations thereof for your money.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Perhaps you can have it re-cut if the price is right?

 

[LostSapphire]

d*mn ate my post....

d*mn ate it again!..


Let me try for 3rd time is a charm:

MrsInAugust:
Thankyou for posting so many pics. My first reaction to your first post was: "well, that's a wonky cut" but I thought I shouldn't comment so quickly based on just a few pics...

It has a window on one side. The stone seems very transparent to me, and disproportionally shallow compared to its length.

The colour is very pretty. I would be concerned at how 'transparent' it seems, especially after seeing the set of pics taken beside a window.

You have a healthy budget to get what you want. Sapphires take time and patience to get right. There seem to be a lot of poorly cut stones out there.

LS

ETA: TourmalineLover was posting as I mine were getting eaten....I have to DITTO her sentiment on the cut.

 

[mrsinaugust]

Thank you, LS, TL, and ChrmyPoo, for the advice. Very helpful.

LS, here is a photo of the stone head on (on the left) and turned upside down (the three on the side). As you can see, the stone is transparent from all angles.

TL, you are correct. I don't think the stone looks "electric" blue, but I knew I wouldn't be able to find the perfect color in an unheated stone in my price range, so I was happy to get something close.


Do you think recutting it would fix the transparency issue? Is it just too shallow to fix? Or, does the transparency have anything to do with the saturation? I don't want to have the stone recut if it will still be windowed. He has offered to have it recut free of charge.

 

[T L]

Well, did you get a certificate from a reputable lab indicating "no heat" and perhaps the origin of Burma (Burmese sapphires have a premium over Ceylon). Wildfish is a reputable company, but you really need that piece of paper to have it retain it''s value, and to prove that you''re paying a fair price. I would only get it after the recut. The recut should hopefully close up the window, but if he does the recut, does he expect you to keep the stone?

 

[chrono]

There's definitely a medium sized window in the picture. This is apparent in your first post, lower right picture when it is seen straight down the table. The colour is decent but the native cutting could be better. If you are not in a rush, I would keep looking.

 

[ma re]

Not sure what is your issue with transparency, as that is acctually something good in gemstones and makes them more brilliant and scintillating. Some of your other issues can probably be eliminated with a proper setting technique. For instance, not long ago, we concluded that in some cases a halo can help "close the window". Your concern about the stone being more rectangular is also something that doesen''t need drastic measures like recutting, as setting it in a semi bezel and having it lay east-west on the ring (instead of parallel to the finger), can make it appear wider and shorter. Think about that too.

 

[FrekeChild]

I believe Ma re, that she is using "transparency" and actually referring to the window.

Frankly, I don't think you're going to be happy with this stone in the long run. There are too many problems:

--too rectangular
--too much in the way of straight lines
--pretty big window/transparent

Bottom line: You have to be happy with it. Ed wants you to be happy with it. This is something you're going to spend the rest of your life looking at. And finding the perfect colored stone is no easy task. So unless there is a rush (and if there is, I'd say use a sub ring) you need to take a deep breath and go find what you REALLY want. Because it's out there. You just haven't found it yet.

Good luck! (And feel free to ask for our help finding exactly what you want. We are pretty darn good at hunting stones down!!)

 

[LD]

Slightly different view here ...........

I love the colour and the clarity (i.e. that it''s clean). I don''t like the window which is too big but I agree with mr ma re about settings. I''ve recently made a window completely disappear with a halo''ed setting! It was a LARGE window as well.

However, you''ve said it''s too square, too "transparent" (I think you mean the window) and you don''t seem to be in love with the stone. Actually that''s the most important thing. Ed will understand. You have to have a stone you LOVE (not just like) because it''s going to be on your hand for a lifetime. If it''s not making your heart sing, send it back.

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 5/3/2009 4:00:04 AM
Author: ma re
Not sure what is your issue with transparency, as that is acctually something good in gemstones and makes them more brilliant and scintillating. Some of your other issues can probably be eliminated with a proper setting technique. For instance, not long ago, we concluded that in some cases a halo can help ''close the window''. Your concern about the stone being more rectangular is also something that doesen''t need drastic measures like recutting, as setting it in a semi bezel and having it lay east-west on the ring (instead of parallel to the finger), can make it appear wider and shorter. Think about that too.

These are all workable possibilities...but I don''t think a person should have to "work so hard" to make it right. There are lots of sapphires out there. Keep looking.

LS

 

[mrsinaugust]

Thank you everyone!!

To answer your questions:

The gemstone came with a certificate stating no heat. I didn''t ask Ed if the stone would be returnable after recutting because if it were altered at my request, I would keep the stone regardless. I know this probably sounds obtuse, but I could not ask a small business to eat the price of my indecisiveness.

I don''t think I am using the word "transparency" correctly. I actually love the "clean" look of the stone. But what concerns me is that when it''s resting on my finger, it has a pinkish hue because my skin can be seen straight through it. I''m actually not sure if this is caused by windowing or because it has a desirable transparency. Should I expect a stone of this clarity, window or no window, to be transparent enough that my skin shows through? This is what concerns me more than the see-through sides... I mean, what if I develop hairy fingers one day? I don''t want to be able to count the hairs through my stone! Do you think the skin reflection problem could be fixed with a bezel setting (I want a full bezel setting)?

All of your advice has been very helpful, and I really appreciate the time you''ve taken to respond to my post! I am not in a rush for the ring. My fiance is a diplomat, and we''re moving to Oman for next February. As long as I have it before then, all is well.

Although I worry that I''ll regret it, I''m going to return this stone. I would appreciate your advice on whether the stone I''m looking for (~8-9mm square cushion cut, unheated, bright blue, can''t see my finger through the top...) is unrealistic within our price range (5-6K). Should I be looking for a smaller size? I really want an unheated stone, not because of any grandiose illusions, but because I''m a dork-- my undergrad degree is in Chemistry, and I think the crystal structure, bonds, and natural inclusions of sapphire are pretty awesome, so I''d really like one in an unaltered state.

Thanks again.

 

[chrono]

The window might be closed with a halo or bezeled setting but then I would be concerned the colour might end up being too dark.

 

[marcy]

It''s a pretty color.

 

[arjunajane]

I don''t think you should keep this stone - keep looking.
And no need to feel guilty for wanting to get it right when spending so much $$ !

 

[ma re]

The transparency you describe is visible due to the stone having a window. As Chrono said, it can be reduced with a bezel, but color will darken with it. The stone you''re after (around 3 cts, unheated, nice color, decent cut...) can be bought with your budget, you just have to be patient and look for it everywhere - it will show up

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 5/3/2009 10:16:41 PM
Author: mrsinaugust
I don''t think I am using the word ''transparency'' correctly. I actually love the ''clean'' look of the stone. But what concerns me is that when it''s resting on my finger, it has a pinkish hue because my skin can be seen straight through it. I''m actually not sure if this is caused by windowing or because it has a desirable transparency. Should I expect a stone of this clarity, window or no window, to be transparent enough that my skin shows through? This is what concerns me more than the see-through sides... I mean, what if I develop hairy fingers one day? I don''t want to be able to count the hairs through my stone! Do you think the skin reflection problem could be fixed with a bezel setting (I want a full bezel setting)?

If you can see anything when looking straight through the top of the stone and down, it''s a window. From your pictures, that seems to be the problem. Transparency in a gem is a good thing. That means the clarity is good. But the reason you can see your finger is because it''s cut too shallow, and that is what is causing the window.

Now, the problem is, with any gemstone, excluding some such as diamonds, you will pretty much always have a "tilt" window--meaning when you move the stone to look at it from another angle than directly down from the top, it will look like a window again--i.e. like a pane of glass. That is pretty much inevitable in most gemstones, so it''s tolerated. It does not mean it''s a bad stone however. If you have a window looking straight down into the stone, that is a result of poor cutting, and is very undesirable in most cases. The only thing you should see when you look straight into the stone are facets and color.

Please remember that if your stone does have a tilt window, it will be partially negated by any setting you put it in. HOWEVER, it is likely that this stone will not be fixed by putting this in a setting. It does happen occasionally, but I''m thinking it probably won''t happen with this particular stone. This is a gut feeling and has no scientific backing.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that a stone will get darker when it is set in a setting, but in bezels especially. So I would try to look at stones that are within a shade or two lighter than your ideal.

Here are a couple that I found that may not be perfect, but could be close:

Rounded cushion but still slightly rectangular, 2.46cts, IF/VVS1 clarity, $5,953.,7.85 x 6.91 x 5.27
Link

Rounded rectangular cushion, lighter blue, 8.86 x 6.59 x 5.70, $6,058.80, VVS2 clarity
Link

Have you considered contacting Jeff White, Dan Stair, Barry Bridgestock or another custom cutter to see what they might have in stock? That could be an option for you.

 

[mariedtiger]

Hi mrsinaugust,

I have been to this thread many many times, because the color of your sapphire is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen. I love the color. Otherwise I agree with the others and you, this gem is not the best you can do because of that window.

Maybe the following link could be of help? Richard Wise Richard has many gorgeous sapphires, is friendly, knowledgeable and a good eye for great gems. He has many wonderful sapphires on this page and I hear he''s a great guy to talk with, so maybe give him a call?

Good luck, I bet you will find a beauty

Marie

 

[mrsinaugust]

Thank you SO much!

I will keep looking... your encouragement is definitely appreciated as it''s a bit disheartening to start all over again. I would love to find a sapphire the shape of Chrono''s image and the color of LS''s stone (or FrekeChild''s shoe). I''d like to continue working with Ed because I''ve really enjoyed working with him, but will also reach out and see what other vendors have. Thank you all for the recommendations. I was a bit intimidated by Richard Wise''s stones and assumend they would be out of my price range, but I''ll reach out to him and the others.

Frekechild, thank you for the information and the links! It''s funny you recommend that first stone from NSC because I''ve been looking at that very stone for a couple of months. But, I was worried about it being too dark once set in a ful bezel. The second stone is lovely, but too rectangular for what I''m looking for. I''m considering ordering the first one to preview.

Mariedtiger, it really is a beautiful color, and I don''t think my photos do it justice. I''m sad to send it back, but you are all right. It''s not the stone for me. I hope it finds a happy home eventually.