Need advice on this Diamond (Certificate) Please Help! :)

[AshuraBoy]

Hello everybody!

I'm so grateful to be part of this forum, this community helped me out so much with my big and expensive decision!! I'm honestly overwhelmed with this whole process but you all help me out so much, THANKYOU!!

I've got offered another option, it's at 0,77ct (F), SI1, with triple excl. (GIA) for €3200,- including pave setting (with small VVS E diamonds).
I understand that even a triple excl. cut doesn't necessarily mean it's a great cut so I'd love to have your input on this certificate. HCA gives me a score of 4.8.

Not all parameters fall in the recommended properties, but is it too far off from it?

Would this price for ring + diamond a good deal? Or should I look further? I'm so confused!!

 

[tyty333]

Unfortunately, this is not cut well...at all. The pavilion is way too high (41.4).

HCA...needs to score under 2 (or maybe close to 2)


Here are some parameters that should help you but the HCA works too.
Depth...we look for under 62.3%
crown - 34-35 degrees
pavilion - 40.6 - 41 degrees
table...less than 58 %

Edit...you didn't need to start a new thread. Now you have 2 threads running which gets confusing.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Sorry but I think you are better off continuing your search.

The main issue here is the combination of the a steeper crown angle of 35 combined with a very steep pavilion angle of 41.4 (small changes of this angle has a huge impact unfortunately). The crown angle of 35 is good if matched with a pavilion angle of 40.6 to even up to 40.8 so long as the lower halves is 80% (which it is for this stone). However, the 41.4 pavilion angle is steep for this stone to have good light return/performance. The overall depth also should not exceed absolute max 62.5% (prefer under 62.3%) and this stone is at 62.9%.

The HCA score are designed to be tool to help you reject stones (when the score is above 2) that are likely to perform poorly. Again, the HCA tool has also confirmed the recommendation to reject this stone with a score of 4.8.

Has your seller been able to provide you with other options that are within the recommended proportions?

Would you consider buying the stone online? Members here would be able to help you find a beautiful stone online if you are willing. The super ideal vendors we recommend are US based, however there are also reputable companies like Blue Nile that European members seem to like, I believe taxes are factored in for them in the purchase making it easier to import.

If you prefer to use a local seller, perhaps some European based members can help recommend a local jeweler or store for you if you let us know the city/country you can shop from? Although most members here are US based, there would be members from EU here too.

 

[Kaycee2018]

This diamond‘s proportions are also outside what is recommended in the link below, so it unlikely anyone here would suggest it. GIA’s “excellent” cut range is considering far too broad by discerning diamond lovers, which is essentially what this forum consists of. The proportions in the link below are what is recommended for diamonds with the best cut quality and cut quality (which determines how light is reflected through the stone and back to the viewer’s eyes) is the number one factor in determining how much brightness, sparkle and fire a diamond has. And the proportions in the link below are what is recommended at a minimum (some only recommend branded “super ideal” diamonds from vendors like Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, etc. since they are vetted by the vendors and come with advanced imaging confirming cut quality). GL

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

 

[lovedogs]

Definitely do not buy this one. You can do much better.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Cut too deep at 62.9% ...

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Apologies if I have missed anything from the whole thread, but is a pave ring a must for you? And are there any flexibility in your budget?

I am fully aware that buying your girl the engagement diamond is like a impossible mission, I went through it especially if it’s our first buy! The most important thing is in the end pick a gorgeous one~ So I have to honestly say that the second stone offered still doesn’t look good…Contradictory to what the owner you have been dealing said, proportions is not just numbers, it determines the play of light of the diamond, however, it’s still not the whole story but only the admission ticket of the whole game. Because they are averaged numbers, not to mention we are still out of the suggested and safe (if we don’t term it “ideal”) proportion range on the 2nd stone.

Will you consider changing direction a bit making some sort of compromise in some aspects, like colour, size, ring style or cost so that we get closer to a beautiful gem?

I brought this quote above from @Double E over here from your other thread in case you miss it because I think there is good advice in there from someone who has gone through the overwhelming process of shopping for an engagement ring.

I agree with the suggestion that you can potentially consider compromising the ring style and spend your budget on getting the best center stone you can for her. If you get a simple solitaire setting, it will be classic and beautiful. Down the track, if she prefers a pave setting or another setting, you can even consider resetting it to celebrate a special anniversary perhaps. Key thing is get a good center strong, the setting is more like the icing on the cake if that makes sense.

Since Blue Nile can include VAT for you (assuming you are in the Europe), I did a search and found a pretty clean looking 0.8 ct F SI1 with a face up spread of 5.96 x 6.00mm (so like the original 0.9ct you were considering):

https://www.bluenile.com/be/en/diamond-details/LD17259663

[please select your country on the top right of page to get the correct VAT included, free delivery fee]

All the parameters are within the recommended ranges.
Note that photo of stone might have been taken an angle and so table looks a bit off center, in the video you'll see it is ok.

Only thing is this stone has medium blue fluorescence. Fluorescence isn't considered to be favorable for a diamond in the colorless range, for reasons around concerns for potential over-blue tint and haziness. However, this is generally more of a concern when the stone has inclusion types like clouds, twinning wisps and internal graining that are more prone to transparency issues. If the fluorescence is graded strong or very strong I would be more hesitant to recommend this stone. However, at medium and with only crystal as inclusions, I believe it would be alright.

If you go for a plain 14K white gold setting from BN, I think this stone will be within budget, if you go pave band though, I'm guessing it might be over budget.

 

[AshuraBoy]

I brought this quote above from @Double E over here from your other thread in case you miss it because I think there is good advice in there from someone who has gone through the overwhelming process of shopping for an engagement ring.

I agree with the suggestion that you can potentially consider compromising the ring style and spend your budget on getting the best center stone you can for her. If you get a simple solitaire setting, it will be classic and beautiful. Down the track, if she prefers a pave setting or another setting, you can even consider resetting it to celebrate a special anniversary perhaps. Key thing is get a good center strong, the setting is more like the icing on the cake if that makes sense.

Since Blue Nile can include VAT for you (assuming you are in the Europe), I did a search and found a pretty clean looking 0.8 ct F SI1 with a face up spread of 5.96 x 6.00mm (so like the original 0.9ct you were considering):

https://www.bluenile.com/be/en/diamond-details/LD17259663

[please select your country on the top right of page to get the correct VAT included, free delivery fee]

All the parameters are within the recommended ranges.
Note that photo of stone might have been taken an angle and so table looks a bit off center, in the video you'll see it is ok.

Only thing is this stone has medium blue fluorescence. Fluorescence isn't considered to be favorable for a diamond in the colorless range, for reasons around concerns for potential over-blue tint and haziness. However, this is generally more of a concern when the stone has inclusion types like clouds, twinning wisps and internal graining that are more prone to transparency issues. If the fluorescence is graded strong or very strong I would be more hesitant to recommend this stone. However, at medium and with only crystal as inclusions, I believe it would be alright.

If you go for a plain 14K white gold setting from BN, I think this stone will be within budget, if you go pave band though, I'm guessing it might be over budget.

Wow, thank you so much for all this info & for helping me find a better option! I really appreciate this and I'm so happy I've come here first to ask everyone's opinion before committing!

You are absolutely right, I've come to the realization that it might be a better option to compromise on the pave setting for now and will look for a nice cheaper setting so I can assign more budget towards the stone. I am in the Netherlands, so Blue Nile would be a great option as I can see the + VAT immediately.

This stone looks beautiful! Would you be able to tell if this would be eye-clean? It even almost looks eye-clean to me on the video! I'm a bit concerned about the medium-blue fluorescence though, however, I believe this is already a much better pick than what I've got offered before. Thank you so much!

Would you be able to help me pick a few more options around the same price range? I'd love to share 2/3 options with the community and finally decide on one!

https://www.bluenile.com/be/en/diamond-details/LD17259663

 

[Kaycee2018]

I strongly agree with going with a simple solitaire in order to maximize up your diamond budget. You can always reset later. GL!

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

I am in the Netherlands, so Blue Nile would be a great option as I can see the + VAT immediately.

This stone looks beautiful! Would you be able to tell if this would be eye-clean? It even almost looks eye-clean to me on the video! I'm a bit concerned about the medium-blue fluorescence though, however, I believe this is already a much better pick than what I've got offered before. Thank you so much!

Would you be able to help me pick a few more options around the same price range? I'd love to share 2/3 options with the community and finally decide on one!

https://www.bluenile.com/be/en/diamond-details/LD17259663

Actually I just thought of an idea that might be useful for you if Antwerp is close enough from the Netherlands. The is a dealer for super ideal CBI diamonds there that might be worth making enquiries with:

By infinity diamonds at Fortrez

With Fortrez you can also buy infinity superideal diamonds from antwerp. Infinity crafts only 1000 diamonds per year. It is a true diamond cutting boutique.

www.fortrez.com

CBI diamonds are absolutely stunning and if there is something suitable within your budget, it is definitely worth considering. Fortrez doesn't list the CBI diamonds for searching online. However, this US dealer does and I believe CBI dealers may share access to diamonds in the same inventory:

Wolf | CBI ™

wolfcbi.com

There is a diamond I saw that might work for you and so perhaps ask Fortrez about this one or other CBI diamonds that they might have in your budget:

Wolf | CBI ™

wolfcbi.com

I'll also have a look and post if I find other nice options with faint or no fluorescence online for you. About that diamond from BN I suggested, it looks from the video that it is likely to be eye clean.

It would be amazing if you can get a CBI diamond to propose with though!

 

[AshuraBoy]

Actually I just thought of an idea that might be useful for you if Antwerp is close enough from the Netherlands. The is a dealer for super ideal CBI diamonds there that might be worth making enquiries with:

By infinity diamonds at Fortrez

With Fortrez you can also buy infinity superideal diamonds from antwerp. Infinity crafts only 1000 diamonds per year. It is a true diamond cutting boutique.

www.fortrez.com

CBI diamonds are absolutely stunning and if there is something suitable within your budget, it is definitely worth considering. Fortrez doesn't list the CBI diamonds for searching online. However, this US dealer does and I believe CBI dealers may share access to diamonds in the same inventory:

Wolf | CBI ™

wolfcbi.com

There is a diamond I saw that might work for you and so perhaps ask Fortrez about this one or other CBI diamonds that they might have in your budget:

Wolf | CBI ™

wolfcbi.com

I'll also have a look and post if I find other nice options with faint or no fluorescence online for you. About that diamond from BN I suggested, it looks from the video that it is likely to be eye clean.

It would be amazing if you can get a CBI diamond to propose with though!

Thank you so much for helping me @Diamond_Enthusiast!! You’re the best! I really appreciate your time!!

I’ve just sent an email to Fortrez in Antwerp, let’s hope they share the same inventory! It’s a 30minute train ride for me so it would be lovely to stop by and see these diamonds from up close!

Watching the videos and sparkle of these diamonds made me realize I didn’t see any of that when I went to Antwerp last time and got offered the other 2 diamonds from the Jeweler lol...

I’m keeping the BN you’ve sent as an option as well!

 

[Double E]

Thank you so much for helping me @Diamond_Enthusiast!! You’re the best! I really appreciate your time!!

I’ve just sent an email to Fortrez in Antwerp, let’s hope they share the same inventory! It’s a 30minute train ride for me so it would be lovely to stop by and see these diamonds from up close!

Watching the videos and sparkle of these diamonds made me realize I didn’t see any of that when I went to Antwerp last time and got offered the other 2 diamonds from the Jeweler lol...

I’m keeping the BN you’ve sent as an option as well!

CBI is definitely stunning stones! Depending on what’s in their inventory, I however believe you may need to may be further lower clarity or colour a bit to stay 0.7x ct. to 0.8ct. While the suggested blue Nile one is quite a good pick, with fatter arrows I preferred^^, I do wish you could stretch your budget a bit to get a precision cut CBI, let us know after your visit~

 

[Double E]

CBI is definitely stunning stones! Depending on what’s in their inventory, I however believe you may need to may be further lower clarity or colour a bit to stay 0.7x ct. to 0.8ct. While the suggested blue Nile one is quite a good pick, with fatter arrows I preferred^^, I do wish you could stretch your budget a bit to get a precision cut CBI, let us know after your visit~

Also ask them about upgrade, how does it work, having a precision top diamond with out nice upgrade policy will sound missing something.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

lso ask them about upgrade, how does it work, having a precision top diamond with out nice upgrade policy will sound missing something.

That is very good point! Fortrez mentions about lifetime trade-up for Infinity diamonds so I think he might have this covered. OP should defintely ask Fortrez about upgrade and confirm this!

Although that nicely proportioned 0.8 ct F on BN doesn't look available anymore, it will be fantastic if he can get a CBI instead!