Need help - about to close purchase

[az21833]

Hi - I am very, very much a novice in this arena but this forum has helped me a ton and I've tried to get up to speed as much as possible before seeking feedback. I have centered in on this rock and will be putting it on the monique lhullier platinum floral halo ring (each from BN). Please grade the specs of the ring, unfortunately I have no further detail. Is this OK to close on? Will it exhibit H&A characteristics? It is triple excellent GIA and 1.1 HCA I believe.

http://www.gia.edu/otmm_wcs_int/proxy-pdf/?ReportNumber=2166736956&url=https://myapps.gia.edu/RptChkClient/reportClient.do?ReportNumber=AEC0CCCEF28C58B9E1861F0E2D90FD7A

http://www.bluenile.com/monique-lhuillier-halo-engagement-ring-platinum_35414

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, two documents popped up when downloaded, the GIA report and the HCA report. The HCA report said 4.2, which is only good if the price is right. I did not do the calc myself, but if 4.2 is correct I would keep looking.

 

[az21833]

whoa whoa whoa, are others seeing this? when i click the link only the GIA report comes up for me? I was using the HCA calculator for my HCA scores all along and it come in at a 1.1 ex,ex,ex,vg.

giving me a heart attack here

 

[az21833]

to be clear its a 60.9% depth, 58% table, 34.0 crown angle, 40.8 pavilion angle. no cutlet. excellent gia cut, excellent gia polish, excellent gia symmetry. my very superficial, cursory understanding of diamonds i have built up online over the past month told me those were good proportions but I am really unsure of my capabilities in this arena….help!

 

[Lorelei]

whoa whoa whoa, are others seeing this? when i click the link only the GIA report comes up for me? I was using the HCA calculator for my HCA scores all along and it come in at a 1.1 ex,ex,ex,vg.

giving me a heart attack here

Hi az2, welcome!

This diamond has excellent proportions and from the info we have, it could be a beautiful rock, it's definitely very promising. You ask if it will exhibit H&A characteristics? It might show some semblance of arrows and some hearts, but it isn't sold as H&A and without detailed images, there is no way we can tell if this diamond has been cut with the strict precision and crispness to show a good example of hearts and arrows patterning. If ' true' H&A is what you want, then look at the branded cuts such as Infinity, A Cut Above and so forth to make sure you are getting what you want. If you want a very well cut diamond, and as far as I can tell without images, this diamond has definite potential, this one might be a perfect fit. The HCA score should be good, I haven't run it through myself as I can see from the proportions they are good, but do remember the HCA is a rejection, not a selection tool.

By the way, you are doing great with your research coming up with this diamond, you are doing brilliantly, no worries with your capabilities.

 

[az21833]

Thanks very much, that is extremely helpful and reassuring. I do have a few follow-up questions for the forum though:

1) Would BN's Signature Ideal Cuts qualify as a brand that ensures hearts & arrows characteristics?

2) How important are H&A vs. just a very well cut diamond that exhibits impressive fire & brilliance? Is this noticeable in everyday life and how important of a consideration should this be for me if I am seeking a rock that both impresses visually and remains rare and valuable for our lifetime - but without any specific taste

3) As you mentioned, the gia grade, specs, HCA calculator, etc. all point to it having POTENTIAL for being a high quality cut. Besides me confirming, that it is eye clean with BN (already done and its VS1) what other steps can I actually take to ensure it actually is before purchasing? How do PSers who shop from Blue Nile tackle this hurdle? I know they have a great return policy but I have such an untrained eye im not even s ure getting the diamond will help me much, im likely to be impressed by anything shiny like a baby

Lastly, I just want to say this forum has been tremendously helpful for me. There are a ton of lurkers out there like myself that will scour these forums for information without saying a word before making one of their largest purchases of their life to-date. For all the seasoned posters out there, its important that you are reminded of that and hopefully I have provided that perspective as an outsider

 

[az21833]

Also is the price premium to get one of the branded cuts justified, in your opinion? very open-ended I realize and subject to lots of contributing factors, but this is essentially the decision I am making now.

 

[az21833]

Hi OP, two documents popped up when downloaded, the GIA report and the HCA report. The HCA report said 4.2, which is only good if the price is right. I did not do the calc myself, but if 4.2 is correct I would keep looking.

Do you mind pointing me to where you saw this? this would be a giant red flag if its true, i'm worried haha

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks very much, that is extremely helpful and reassuring. I do have a few follow-up questions for the forum though:

1) Would BN's Signature Ideal Cuts qualify as a brand that ensures hearts & arrows characteristics?
As I recall and please anyone else with more up to date knowledge on BN SI chime in, these diamonds were BN's best cut diamonds sold as h&a but I could be wrong, there is a lot of catching up I have to do so bear with me, I take it this is a Signature Ideal? I can't tell from just the report, but without crisp and detailed images of both hearts and arrows, I am not prepared to stick my neck out and say in my opinion, this diamond is a good specimen of that precision cutting style. The HCA results must be a mistake from the report I am seeing, no way those proportions are going to draw a 4.

2) How important are H&A vs. just a very well cut diamond that exhibits impressive fire & brilliance? Is this noticeable in everyday life and how important of a consideration should this be for me if I am seeking a rock that both impresses visually and remains rare and valuable for our lifetime - but without any specific taste. It depends, if you have two clean diamonds both with similar proportions crafted to the most exacting standards, both show an excellent level of optical symmetry which is responsible for the hearts and arrows patterning, you might not notice much - if any- difference in everyday viewing conditions between them. On image, you might find various things off with the hearts and arrows of the non h&a, wonky arrows, bent shafts, distorted hearts or even a very slight discrepancy with one heart or part of an arrow that disqualifies it in the most discerning opinion from being a true h&a. Put it this way, you are well within the upper tiers already with the diamond details you have posted, of the finest cut stones available, if for this exercise, we put branded h&a at the top for this hypothetical comparison. If you want to shoot for the very best, that depends on what is the best to you personally, bearing in mind diamonds are not a good financial investment. But decide what is ' best' for you with level of cut quality, size, colour and clarity etc, then aim to match each factor as closely as you can.

3) As you mentioned, the gia grade, specs, HCA calculator, etc. all point to it having POTENTIAL for being a high quality cut. Besides me confirming, that it is eye clean with BN (already done and its VS1) what other steps can I actually take to ensure it actually is before purchasing? How do PSers who shop from Blue Nile tackle this hurdle? I know they have a great return policy but I have such an untrained eye im not even s ure getting the diamond will help me much, im likely to be impressed by anything shiny like a baby
The best way is to get the diamond sent to a trusted independent appraiser in your area, I assume you are in the US? You get 2 weeks from BN if I recall correctly, but please don't take my word for it as this is something I need to verify. Have it sent to an appraiser of your choice if possible then you can either view it there at their offices, or have it sent to you first, then if you like the stone have it sent to the appraiser to get their yay or nay. A good appraiser will be tremendously helpful in assisting you to make the right decision, plus their detailed appraisal will be very useful for insurance purposes. It's always a very smart move in my opinion to get an independent appraiser to check out a stone prior to committing.

Lastly, I just want to say this forum has been tremendously helpful for me. There are a ton of lurkers out there like myself that will scour these forums for information without saying a word before making one of their largest purchases of their life to-date. For all the seasoned posters out there, its important that you are reminded of that and hopefully I have provided that perspective as an outsider

Thank you so much for saying that, it is appreciated more than you ever know, this forum is always in good hands because of the fantastic community members!

 

[proto]

I get 1.1 in HCA. Dimensions look excellent. This has potential to be good.

Ask bluenile for a picture and idealscope and for them to hold it for you pending results.

You may also wish to ask BN to confirm that the fluorescence is not noticeable and that the stone does not exhibit that hazy appearance which *can* happen in these types of stones.

cant tell if HA without picture, but see here http://www.bluenile.com/uk/signature-ideal-round-diamonds

I would expect it to demonstrate the hearts and arrows, however am not familiar with how sharp these are. On WF and BG, they are crisp, on JA the true hearts are sometimes a bit "is this really a proper HA diamond???". Not sure what the BN signature range is in terms of consistency.

Is HA worth it? I have seen the difference when i went browsing in BM shops, and you can see the difference online. However, what is important is whether your fiance will appreciate the additional sparkle or not. Some people do not like the perfect constrast pattern and prefer a slightly more random look on the diamond.

You have some scope to move down to a VS2, although you lose the 100% certainty it is eyeclean by doing so. You could also go down to SI1 and try to find an eyeclean one. This may enable you to get HA on budget, or get a slightly bigger diamond (depending on preferences).

I would never bother asking whether a VS1 were eyeclean if it were graded by GIA. You can pretty much trust that.

 

[az21833]

extremely helpful, as always. Thank you very very much. much appreciated.

 

[proto]

if you cant into a BM to compare difference HA and non-HA, see links below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hImYTholWxo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbnGLi04JjM

I have to say when I was in BM, the difference was less than in the videos. Not huge difference in sparkle, but it was noticeable.

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, just wanted to say sorry if I confused the situation by the additional pop up I received when viewing your document, perhaps that was from a previous download? Anyhoo, you've gotten great insight so far so I won't pile on reiterating the same view point. I do want to address the: is it worth paying for the extra H&A? I have to admit, I'm a bit of a bargain shopping generally, always looking for hidden value and getting great quality at a good value. Diamond shopping is definitely different. Some people are willing to buy the absolute best because it is the best, some are looking for cut perfection and optical symmetry, others just want something pretty and sparkly and it doesn't have to be ideal cut. For me, I do want something special, that not everyone has. Even if it's smaller in size it will make up for in sheer diamond beauty! So, my solitaire will definitely be a H&A for sure and feel that it's worth it, because I'll know and appreciate that type of cut perfection. As many here, I'll be staring into my little beauty for hours and enjoying her little light show!

 

[az21833]

Is buying and getting it and taking it to an appraiser to see if its H&A an OK approach here? Its still conceivable that it could be with the triple ex GIA and 1.1 HCA right? just not for sure given there's no brand guarantee? Or should I just assume its not - im not sure whats standard practice here.

Those videos sure make H&A rather important to me...

 

[az21833]

For clarification this is not a BN signature ideal cut. I decided to opt out of that initially because I thought it was just paying extra for the brand and proprietary ownership which did not matter to me. Reading more into it they state: "The Hearts and Arrows effect is exhibited in all of our round Blue Nile Signature Collection diamonds." Can we take them at their word here?

Now im leaning towards cancelling this rock and downgrading to a 1.4crt signature ideal with similar specs for about the same price.

Does this seem prudent?

 

[luvdajules]

I think buying it loose and taking to appraiser is a good way to go if BN won't just send it to the appraiser without purchasing stone. That way, you and the appraiser can fully evaluate the arrows and hearts (which I'm sure you will see), do you have a viewer? I think you can buy one inexpensively or make sure the appraiser has one. Then you can determine it's cut perfection or where it is slightly off, maybe within acceptable limits? FWIW, at this high a level of scrutiny, you are in the top, top tiers of diamonds.

With BN viewing period, you can view the bigger stone and see if it is acceptable to you. If it doesn't pass for you, then go to the 1.4ct. Have you checked out WF ACAs, or Brian Gavin Signature, or Crafted by Infinity or GOG Superior? There's no guess work there and they have images and make videos and you can call them to pull the stone to look at them for you. I hate for this process to be messing with your head, it should be a fun and joyous time. Would you like other suggestions? If so, please share your desired specs and budget and we'll do our best to help recommend some stones.

 

[proto]

I am going to assume we are in the 14,000 range plus minus 400 or so.

As this is going into a halo setting, I think you can go a little lower than H and go for a better cut since it will only ever show faceup anyway.

Additionally, I think you can consider
1 - whitening the faceup colour with fluoresence
2 - lowering the price with fluoresence
3 - getting a bigger stone (potentially)

Off to the BrianGavinBlue collection we go.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.543-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104071029023

How does this sound for $13,254 - I assume this is in budget. It isnt as high requirements as the signature collection, which requires AGS 0 for symmetry and polishing while blue can accept AGS1 for these. AGS 0 for light performance is required for both, and both (to my eyes) can be considered HA.

 

[az21833]

Thanks very much for all your help everybody. I know its stupid/irrational but I think I want to stick with BN just because I am so familiar with them at this point and feel most comfortable purchasing from them. I am very color conscience so I don't want to drop below H with a platinum setting or go strong fluorescence which may have some effect in direct sunlight. I have, however, pivoted to a BN "signature ideal" 1.4 crt, H, VS2, triple ex GIA, 1.4 HCA stone though. As a signature ideal, BN was able to "guarantee" it was both H&A and eye-clean (I called multiple times and got the guarantee every single time), which gives me some more comfort than the last stone, although I will still get it appraised in the grave period obviously and send it back if anything does not check out. In addition, this rock saved me about $575 from the last one ($12,700 range) which I think is a good price for this diamond quality and size. My only concern is there are a few twinning wisps it looks like but the BN sales person said they were absolutely not eye-visible and, even though they appear quite big on the characteristics plot, they are some of the best inclusions to have since they are the least visible. Not sure if I'm getting the full story there. Also is the 1.4 HCA here vs the 0.8 HCA in the prior stone cause for any concern?

Again, would appreciate any reaction before i pull the trigger and purchase and begin the appraisal process


GIA Cert: http://www.gia.edu/otmm_wcs_int/proxy-pdf/?ReportNumber=2166702517&url=https://myapps.gia.edu/RptChkClient/reportClient.do?ReportNumber=8CE041ABF0278221C506160267DA9C6C

GCAL Cert: http://www.gemfacts.com/Cert/ (put in number: 241000007)

 

[az21833]

any thoughts here prior to the wire? thanks again everybody!

 

[proto]

you will only see it face up and with superior cut, it will *face up closer to [insert higher colour grade]* (I know how much this forum hates this type of language)

Brian Gavin Blues have no negative effect due to fluorescence.

Your diamond from BN has medium blue fluorescence. Have you asked them to check for negative effects?

 

[Lorelei]

For clarification this is not a BN signature ideal cut. I decided to opt out of that initially because I thought it was just paying extra for the brand and proprietary ownership which did not matter to me. Reading more into it they state: "The Hearts and Arrows effect is exhibited in all of our round Blue Nile Signature Collection diamonds." Can we take them at their word here?

I always want to see images when a diamond is purported to be H&A, I would not take a vendor's word on that personally.

Also concerning blue fluorescence, I have personally never known an instance where medium blue has caused any negative effects, this is normally a very rare occurrence in strong or very strong blue.

Read more below.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Lorelei|1400329951|
I always want to see images when a diamond is purported to be H&A, I would not take a vendor's word on that personally.

[/quote]


I agree with my Brit gf...no hearts pic no go.