Need help choosing between diamonds

[arrowj]

Hello there, prospective engagement ring buyer here. Trying to choose between 2 diamonds both are considered excellent cut by gia, but not ags ideal cut.

Both are pavilion angle 40.6, high color/clarity.

Diamond A: crown 34.0, depth 61.3

Diamond B: crown 35.5, depth 61.5

I've read that for pavilion of 40.6, the ideal crown is around 34.5-35.0. However, which is better between a little deeper at 35.5, or a little shallower at 34.0?

I've seen mention of "ring of death" with crown angles > 35.5, would that affect Diamond B?

Diamond A seems to fit within ideal ranges for round diamonds, however both the pavilion angle and crown angles are on the smaller/shallower end, what drawbacks are there for a diamond cut on the shallower side?

Appreciate all input and knowledge, thanks!

 

[tyty333]

Do you have links to up close pictures/videos?

 

[arrowj]

Do you have links to up close pictures/videos?

Sure do.

Also I edited my initial description for accuracy, these diamonds are quite pricey and are actually both d color and fl clarity.

Diamond A: https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/gia-number-6481476527
Diamond B: https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/gia-number-2239211473

There is a carat size difference too, but I'm trying to decide on cut/quality over carat.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Is there a reason you are choosing D flawless?

 

[arrowj]

Is there a reason you are choosing D flawless?

Just being somewhat idealistic and fortunate enough to have a decent budget of up to $25k for this purchase

 

[0-0-0]

With that budget I would get something in-house from BG/WF in the 1.5-1.9 ct D-G color range down to VS2 clarity. IMO the improvement in cut quality and change in size in this carat range is much more apparent than color and clarity differences.

 

[lovedogs]

With that budget I would get something in-house from BG/WF in the 1.5-1.9 ct D-G color range down to VS2 clarity. IMO the improvement in cut quality and change in size in this carat range is much more apparent than color and clarity differences.

This 100000%

 

[arrowj]

With that budget I would get something in-house from BG/WF in the 1.5-1.9 ct D-G color range down to VS2 clarity. IMO the improvement in cut quality and change in size in this carat range is much more apparent than color and clarity differences.

Gotcha...

Diamond B is actually 1.7ct (~30k) while A is 1.5ct (-20k)

Are Diamond B's cut measurements, namely the crown angle of 35.5, something to be wary of? I heard of a "ring of death description" with crown angles over 35

 

[Dreamer_D]

In the age of Labs, I feel like D FL is an interesting choice in a natural diamond, as it would be totally indistinguishable from a lab stone. Unless you or the intended wearer has cultural values that prize D FL, I would put the money into size and get a G color VS2 or similar. Save the money or put towards earrings of another gift.

That aside of the choices you offered I prefer Diamond A. I don't see ring of death but I like the patterning in diamond A better and I think it will provide a nicer scintillation pattern. A video would be helpful.

 

[0-0-0]

JA has some nice TrueHearts in this range too.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/all-diamonds/?Color=G,F,E,D&Cut=TrueHearts&CaratFrom=1.5&CaratTo=2&Sort=CaratDesc

IMO any of these or something in-house from BG/WF would be a better choice if D/IF is not a requirement.

If optical symmetry is good 35.5/40.6 is likely fine. I own a 35.8/40.7 with H&A patterning and there is only leakage under the table on tilt. Leakage under the table face up is more likely for 35.5/41. Keep in mind minor leakage under the table may not even be visible in person with stereo vision.

 

[freddyboston]

In the age of Labs, I feel like D FL is an interesting choice in a natural diamond, as it would be totally indistinguishable from a lab stone. Unless you or the intended wearer has cultural values that prize D FL, I would put the money into size and get a G color VS2 or similar. Save the money or put towards earrings of another gift.

That aside of the choices you offered I prefer Diamond A. I don't see ring of death but I like the patterning in diamond A better and I think it will provide a nicer scintillation pattern. A video would be helpful.

Strong fluorescence D's don't look like labs.......

 

[0515vision]

We need video to assess “ring of death.” It doesn’t seem to be super common, although I’m still a newbie.

Here’s a WF 1.614 E VVS1 for $24.5.

Diamond | 1.614 ct E VVS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4484826

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.614 carat E color VVS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4484826

www.whiteflash.com

Brian Gavin doesn’t currently have many stones in the super ideal category in D or E that fit your bill. Here’s the closest I could find at 1.767 E VVS2

1.767 E VVS2 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 1.767 carat E VVS2 super ideal cut Black By Brian Gavin Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Good luck!

 

[0-0-0]

In the age of Labs, I feel like D FL is an interesting choice in a natural diamond, as it would be totally indistinguishable from a lab stone.

I think of them as collectors’ items. BG has a natural 5 ct D IF H&A round for half a million that I would love to own if I had the extra money , even though I know I can get a lab 5 ct D IF H&A round for 10k or less.

 

[arrowj]

We need video to assess “ring of death.” It doesn’t seem to be super common, although I’m still a newbie.

Here’s a WF 1.614 E VVS1 for $24.5.

Diamond | 1.614 ct E VVS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4484826

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.614 carat E color VVS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4484826

www.whiteflash.com

Brian Gavin doesn’t currently have many stones in the super ideal category in D or E that fit your bill. Here’s the closest I could find at 1.767 E VVS2

1.767 E VVS2 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 1.767 carat E VVS2 super ideal cut Black By Brian Gavin Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Good luck!

also @Dreamer_D

Here is another link I found of Diamond B with the 35.5 crown, this link also does have a video

1.73 Carat Natural Diamond, Round Cut, FL, D Color, GIA Certified

Round cut, 1.73 carat natural diamond, certified by GIA. D color and FL clarity. Priced at $28673, 37% lower than our fair price estimate.

www.rarecarat.com

 

[lovedogs]

For this kind of money I would want tje best possible cut, which these don't quite have.

 

[lovedogs]

Strong fluorescence D's don't look like labs.......

What? We aren't talking about fluor. We are talking about FL (flawless)

 

[Dreamer_D]

Strong fluorescence D's don't look like labs.......

Only if you spend a lot of time in clubs with black lights lol

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think of them as collectors’ items. BG has a natural 5 ct D IF H&A round for half a million that I would love to own if I had the extra money , even though I know I can get a lab 5 ct D IF H&A round for 10k or less.

Collectors and connoisseurs love all kinds of oddities! I just don't know if I'd want to spend 25k on something that can be bought for $600 lol

 

[Dreamer_D]

also @Dreamer_D

Here is another link I found of Diamond B with the 35.5 crown, this link also does have a video

1.73 Carat Natural Diamond, Round Cut, FL, D Color, GIA Certified

Round cut, 1.73 carat natural diamond, certified by GIA. D color and FL clarity. Priced at $28673, 37% lower than our fair price estimate.

www.rarecarat.com

I'm not seeing red flags, though as others have said, you can find more precision cut stones.

 

[freddyboston]

What? We aren't talking about fluor. We are talking about FL (flawless)

it was about how a D FL Natural (non fluor) is indistinguishable from a clean D Lab...... Most people looking at it would assume synthetic...

 

[0515vision]

Here is another link I found of Diamond B with the 35.5 crown, this link also does have a video

1.73 Carat Natural Diamond, Round Cut, FL, D Color, GIA Certified

Round cut, 1.73 carat natural diamond, certified by GIA. D color and FL clarity. Priced at $28673, 37% lower than our fair price estimate.

www.rarecarat.com

This one isn't cut well. It goes slightly dark under the table with very slight rotation. Although I don't think that's necessarily "right of death," it is indicative of a poor cut. Plus the optical symmetry isn't there.

 

[Dreamer_D]

This one isn't cut well. It goes slightly dark under the table with very slight rotation. Although I don't think that's necessarily "right of death," it is indicative of a poor cut. Plus the optical symmetry isn't there.

Only the arrows go dark and only half of them which is normal obstruction I would think.

 

[0515vision]

Only the arrows go dark and only half of them which is normal obstruction I would think.

Oh, so is this an ok cut? Truly asking for edification and clarity. I’m still relatively new here and open to learning.

 

[lovedogs]

Oh, so is this an ok cut? Truly asking for edification and clarity. I’m still relatively new here and open to learning.

I don't love the cut either TBH.

 

[tyty333]

Looks like you have up to $30K. I would definitely go with a Super Ideal....H&A and has all the images to show that it doesn't
have any leakage (all ACAs). You can ask for side-by-side photos or for pictures of certain stones on someone's finger to
get ideas of the size difference.

Diamond | 1.82 ct F VVS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4613137

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.82 carat F color VVS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4613137

www.whiteflash.com

If you want to stay under $25k

Diamond | 1.614 ct E VVS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4484826

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.614 carat E color VVS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4484826

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.557 ct D VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4553627

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.557 carat D color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4553627

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.56 ct D VVS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4698202

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.56 carat D color VVS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4698202

www.whiteflash.com

You have a healthy budget. It would be nice to get a stone with the best cut available.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I don't love the cut either TBH.

@0515vision It is not my favourite flavour of cut either. I think what you are noticing is that the patterning is different from the ideal norm and I think not as precise as we are used to. So it looks a teensy bit more chaotic than we usually like. And it has very thin arrows, closer to 80% than the 75% most ideal cut stones have. But I'm not sure that means its BAD per se. I don't see the red flags like haze or leakage or over darkness. I don't think it suffers from too much obstruction. There might be some of what I've heard called paddling, where there are areas around the tips of the arrows that go darker than we like to see. But I'm not sure we do the best service if we just call it "bad" cut. There are far far worse dogs to be found! It is an exceptionally well cut diamond in the grand scale. And natural diamonds this size and color and clarity are very rare. All this should be considered i think when we evaluate natural diamonds.

 

[0-0-0]

It’s hard to read some of these videos with funky lighting too.

 

[arrowj]

@0515vision It is not my favourite flavour of cut either. I think what you are noticing is that the patterning is different from the ideal norm and I think not as precise as we are used to. So it looks a teensy bit more chaotic than we usually like. And it has very thin arrows, closer to 80% than the 75% most ideal cut stones have. But I'm not sure that means its BAD per se. I don't see the red flags like haze or leakage or over darkness. I don't think it suffers from too much obstruction. There might be some of what I've heard called paddling, where there are areas around the tips of the arrows that go darker than we like to see. But I'm not sure we do the best service if we just call it "bad" cut. There are far far worse dogs to be found! It is an exceptionally well cut diamond in the grand scale. And natural diamonds this size and color and clarity are very rare. All this should be considered i think when we evaluate natural diamonds.

Appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the video for Diamond B! But in the end, you liked what you saw in the video for Diamond A more?

 

[MissGotRocks]

Having the highest color and clarity should be secondary to having the best cut in my opinion. Cut is everything in a diamond’s performance. After that, the next noticeable thing is size. I would drop color/clarity down a bit to go up in size with a super ideal cut diamond. Diamond shrinkage syndrome can set in quickly so I would certainly keep that in mind.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the video for Diamond B! But in the end, you liked what you saw in the video for Diamond A more?

A is nicer I think but I’d like to see a video.