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Need your opinion on conversation with VLFF

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hisdiamondgirl

Brilliant_Rock
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I''m fairly new here and although I have posted a few times, I have not yet shared my story with you guys. I will share some of it now, as I need your opinion on a recent conversation with VLFF (Very Likely Future Fiance --you will understand better later). VLFF and I have been together for approximately a year and a half, although we have known each other for more than five and previously dated for about another year and a half before we broke up realizing the timing was all wrong. We got back together after two years of being apart and everything has been wonderful ever since!
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So now I consider myself a full-blown LIW as I can''t stop thinking about marrying him and spending the rest of my life with him, and looking at all of the wonderful bling bling on PS!

However, unlike most of the LIWs here, we had not spoken seriously about marriage until recently, although we have often commented on raising children, our wedding, where we would live, being old together, etc, etc... Well, we recently were at a 25 year anniversary celebration, and one convo leading to another, and all of a sudden we''re talking about IT, MARRIAGE. I cannot even remember how it began but the point is that he DID NOT say "Yes, honey, I want to marry you and spend the rest of my life with you!" Of course, that is what I wanted to hear but what he said instead was that he wouldn''t be "here" (I didn''t know how to take that -- if he meant literally "here at this party" (it was MY family''s party) or "here still with you"), if it wasn''t "very likely" that it would happen, but that he wasn''t "there" yet and that he didn''t think that I was "there" either. He said that if he were "there" he would have proposed already. I told him I understood that he wasn''t "there" yet but asked him what made him think that I wasn''t. He said that if I was, I would talk about it more often, and would basically be pushing him to do it. I explained that although I am "there" I did not want to put any pressure on him because I respect his feelings and understand what he''s been through (he was engaged once before and that ended very very badly--long story) and want to let him do things on his own time. I don''t really remember much else of the conversation --it''s funny how emotional conversations seem to get all jumbled up in my brain...I remember how I felt, not exactly what was said
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He basically saw the look of disappointment on my face and said "Relax, baby, I''m just saying we still have some growing to do together," to which I managed a laugh and told him that I hope he is not waiting for things to be perfect because they never will be. He also laughed and said "Don''t worry, I''m smarter than that." So the whole thing ended on a pretty light hearted note and everything is still normal between the two of us (I thought maybe the convo would make things a little akward but it didn''t).

Anyway, that''s all for now folks! I was a little depressed during and after the conversation but I guess it wasn''t really all that bad, at least he didn''t say he never wanted to marry me!!!
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Thanks for reading this and I appreciate any feedback you wise ladies may have!
 
Well I think you need to sit down and have another talk. A year and a half is a substantial amount of time for the two of you to sit down and have a more in depth talk that isn''t with band music in the background (I''m just imagining). I would want to know what he meant by, " Of course, that is what I wanted to hear but what he said instead was that he wouldn''t be "here"

I though his explanation of you being "here" was odd. He said that if I was, I would talk about it more often, and would basically be pushing him to do it.
This just sounds a little off to me. It''s a little odd that he thinks if you are ready, you would be pushing him into marriage. I mean, what are his views of marriage? Is getting married a good thing for him? What does it take for him to be ready? Why is he just assuming (and wrongly doing it) how you will express your desire for marriage. I can tell you that his thinking that you would "push" him to do it is very unhealthy and not a good way to start a permanent future together. More discussion is needed because the two of you aren''t on the same page.

Your discussion about marriage sounds very one-sided to me. He may be right that the two of you have more "growing together to do" but what about your opinions? What about your input? What if you ARE ready? What does it mean to him that you have more "growing to do?" Does he feel like the relationship is still too young? Does he feel you argue too much etc..

I think you need to get some of these questions answered so at least you know where your relationship is going.


 
Date: 11/14/2007 6:05:17 AM
Author: heraanderson
Well I think you need to sit down and have another talk. A year and a half is a substantial amount of time for the two of you to sit down and have a more in depth talk that isn''t with band music in the background (I''m just imagining). I would want to know what he meant by, '' Of course, that is what I wanted to hear but what he said instead was that he wouldn''t be ''here''

I though his explanation of you being ''here'' was odd. He said that if I was, I would talk about it more often, and would basically be pushing him to do it.
This just sounds a little off to me. It''s a little odd that he thinks if you are ready, you would be pushing him into marriage. I mean, what are his views of marriage? Is getting married a good thing for him? What does it take for him to be ready? Why is he just assuming (and wrongly doing it) how you will express your desire for marriage. I can tell you that his thinking that you would ''push'' him to do it is very unhealthy and not a good way to start a permanent future together. More discussion is needed because the two of you aren''t on the same page.

Your discussion about marriage sounds very one-sided to me. He may be right that the two of you have more ''growing together to do'' but what about your opinions? What about your input? What if you ARE ready? What does it mean to him that you have more ''growing to do?'' Does he feel like the relationship is still too young? Does he feel you argue too much etc..

I think you need to get some of these questions answered so at least you know where your relationship is going.


Thanks for your post heraanderson. I do agree that we have to sit down and have another talk without the background music
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. I just really don''t want to pressure him/overwhelm him given what he has gone through in the past.
I do not think it was odd that he would think that I would be more vocal about my wishes if I was "there" as he put it. I think that this probably just stems from (1) his experience (his prior relationship was pretty dysfunctional so I can only imagine what his ex put him through to get that ring
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) and (2) his perception that women who are ready to get married are simply very vocal with their SOs about their wishes. In fact, based on my many experiences with my married friends, and even some of the posts on this board, I tend to agree with him on the second premise. I think that men in general, whether they admit it or not, are weary of giving up their bachelorhood in favor of "one woman for the rest of their lives," and so it usually takes quite a bit of gentle prodding on the part of the woman. (I know many of you are probably going to jump on me for saying that, but I really do think that men are just wired differently from women in that department
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and to all you ladies out there who didn''t have to "gently prod," I think most people would say you are very lucky!!!).

On his views about marriage, he does think that marriage is a good thing and does want to get married someday. As to what it will take for him to be ready? Well, that''s always been a pretty mysterious question to me in terms of what it really takes for a man to really feel that he is ready to settle down. I left some things out of my prior post, but we did discuss an "issue"/"fear" that he had about the future, and although we could not resolve it immediately, I think that talking about it was a good start, and that it is something that can be resolved pretty easily. Also, without getting into what the fear was, it was not really something big, and we do have a great relationship and good communication which I think continues to improve every day! If I were to guess at what it would take for him to be ready, i think the answer would be simply: time; and I am willing to give him that because I think it is worth it. We have been through a lot to get to the point in our relationship where we are right now and I think that the fact that we both decided to give this relationship a shot after two years of separation (and some drama) shows that we are both committed to each other and to making it work.

Maybe I am just sugarcoating the situation but that is how I feel.

Thanks again for reading!
 
I would really appreciate anybody else''s opinion!!!
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I just wondered what age your bf is?

Most of the men I know wouldn't consider themselves in a place to get engaged until they were 30+. That is probably coloured by them living in London, climbing the career ladder, long hours and trying to earn enough $$ to buy a house in a city where they cost $$$$$$$$$!

Some men are mature enough to feel ready for a life-long committment earlier, but many don't. Not necessarily because they haven't met the right girl, or because they want to play the field, but because they don't feel ready for that step, or that their ducks aren't in a row enough to feel that they could provide for a wife and kids - sort of caveman/hunter-gatherer thing.

That said, I think what your bf said sounds positive in many ways. I think the 'here' thing could well mean two things: first 'with you' and secondly 'with you at a family event in an official boyfriend capacity.'

On the pushing for an e-ring thing, I reckon this is coloured by his past experiences. Are his parents married? Happily married?

My FI's parents got divorced when he was 14 and his family was totally divided - he and his older brother stayed with his dad and the younger brothers went with their mother. I think this subconciously really influences him. The day we met, he was kissing me, stopped and said 'are your parents still together and happy?' I said yes and he said 'well that's okay then and went back to kissing me!'
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He has no recollection of saying this at all! It took me a long time to convince him that marriage could be a good thing. He's still not sold on the idea, but is sold on me and is marrying me because it means a lot more to me than not getting married meant to him.

Your bf's experiences with the former FI could well be influencing his feelings right now. Even though you dated before, I think you have to treat the relationship as one and a half years (women tend to add things together, men are not really like that IMHO). That is not a particularly long time. You don't say if you are living together or not. I think living together can either speed up the process - you have spent more time together, you know what married life could feel like and if you are compatible with each other on a day-to-day basis; or slow it down - they are TOO comfortable and don't see why things should change.

Hmmm, I think you probably both need to communicate more. It's very difficult at first, but these conversations should be the start of a process that either leads to marriage or leads you to realise that the other person is not for you. I think women often fear expressing their wants and needs in case they come across as desperate for a ring, or as too pushy.

This bizarre idea that every man is programmed to sweep a girl off her feet with a big diamond in one hand and a bunch of roses in the other under a starry sky is the cause of many frustrated LIW's all convinced that every man except hers is doing this - so their must be something wrong with HER or her relationship.

Sorry - another novel...
 
Thanks Pandora, I am glad to hear that you also think that what he said was positive. At first, I didn''t think it was, but the more I think about it, the more convinced I become that we really are on our way!

As for ages, my BF is 31 and I am 27. We live in NYC so we are on the same boat as you in terms of the cost of living in a big city. We both finished school with advanced degrees over two years ago, and although I have a great paying, secure job, FF has not been so lucky in the market and has been struggling a little bit, so maybe that is one of the reasons he isn''t quite "there" yet as well.

On the e-ring issue; his parents have been happily married for over 30 years so I''m pretty sure the issue stems more from his experience with the former FI who was very controlling and, yes, just CRAZY!

As for how long we have been together, I only stated the combined time for background, but when asked how long we have been together, we usually say "one and a half years." (Although recently, someone asked and he said one and a half years but "on and off" before that, and the person (a woman) answered "no, no, no, you have to combine the total time spent together," to which he laughed and said "Don''t do that to me."
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)

Our living situation is a bit peculiar, but we have basically been living together (him living in my apartment) since May, although he also has his own apartment, to which he now goes once or twice a week so that he isn''t "wasting his rent money." It really has been great and now we know that we can cohabit peacefully and quite successfully. I really don''t have any complaints about my relationship, it is wonderful, I just can''t seem to get the idea of engagement out of my head. I am super-ready for it, WITH HIM, but I also know that he needs some more time, and I really don''t want to pressure him because I am pretty sure it will come in due course, but have been feeling so desperate for it lately!!!!

Ahhhh...what to do, what to do, except just WAIT?!?!?!?!?
 
Date: 11/14/2007 4:33:27 PM
Author: hisdiamondgirl
...

On the e-ring issue; his parents have been happily married for over 30 years so I''m pretty sure the issue stems more from his experience with the former FI who was very controlling and, yes, just CRAZY!

...
He was engaged before? If that''s the case then I''m sure he''s just suffering - rightly so - from the old adage "once bitten, twice shy." He''s going to be much more likely to take his time and go slow than someone who hasn''t gone through that before, I would think.
 
Date: 11/14/2007 4:47:47 PM
Author: largirl


Date: 11/14/2007 4:33:27 PM
Author: hisdiamondgirl
...

On the e-ring issue; his parents have been happily married for over 30 years so I''m pretty sure the issue stems more from his experience with the former FI who was very controlling and, yes, just CRAZY!

...
He was engaged before? If that''s the case then I''m sure he''s just suffering - rightly so - from the old adage ''once bitten, twice shy.'' He''s going to be much more likely to take his time and go slow than someone who hasn''t gone through that before, I would think.
I agree largirl, and that is why, although I constantly think about being engaged to him, I am trying to give him some time to do things at his own pace (especially that his previous engagement ended soooo very badly
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). At least now he knows where I stand and that I truly want to spend the rest of my life with him...the ball is in his court!!!
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For now, I guess I''ll just have to come here to vent about my LIW frustrations!!!
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Thanks for answering all the questions - I kind of find it easier to know how to respond if I have an idea where people are in their lives.

I think it''s becoming time to ramp things up a bit. I started working on my FI at the 2 year mark, and was engaged in 6 months, four of which he spent planning the proposal.
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The ring came later so I had absolutely no clue at all.

My military campaign:

1) Buy a copy of ''Why Men Marry Some Women And Not Others''.
2) Sit BF down and explain to him that you need to be able to plan your future and it is very difficult to know what your own timeline is when he hasn''t explained how he sees your future and you feel uncomfortable as it appears like he has control of your life.
3) Explain that you are not trying to pressure him in anyway, nor issue any ultimatums, but that you would value the opportunity to discuss future plans and thoughts and that you would feel much happier if he was able to give you a ballpark timescale as to how he sees things progressing.

If your SO is not anti-marriage (as mine was) you''ve got an easier task. I would probably steer away from the M or E words and concentrate more on building communication on future plans and trying to pin down some sort of time frame - does he want kids before he''s 40 or before he''s 35 etc etc.

The only thing that is helpful is dropping the news that weddings take a year to plan.

Hopefully you won''t end up like I did saying this:

Sweetie, I love you very much, but I am 34, if we want kids we need to get a move on. I won''t have any without a wedding ring on my finger. It takes at least a year to plan a wedding, so we are already looking at my being 37 before we start trying. If you don''t want to make that sort of commitment to me or feel that I am not the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, I would prefer you to let me know that sooner rather than later.

Worked though!
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Thanks Pandora! I think that I will drop the subject for another 6 months (well not drop it completely but at least serious conversations about it!
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) and work on him at or near the two-year mark. I figure I will let him benefit from the fact that in my own internal timeline, my preferred deadline for a wedding date is really the first half of 2010 (just shy of my 30th birthday). This doesn''t give him until 2009 to propose though because I really would like to be engaged longer than a year to be able to save properly for the wedding (since I am now saving for a house and would like to do both at the same time
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!!)

BTW, how did you sell your FI on marriage?!?! My BF jokes around that 40 is a good age for a man to get married, but I really don''t want to wait that looooonnnnnggggg, especially since I will be 36 when he''s 40 and my mom actually started to MENOPAUSE at 36!!!
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Thanks for the advice and I will definitely get a copy of that book!
 
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