New Age/Natural/Holistic Healing: Discuss!

[OreoRosies86]

In order to not be an insufferable threadjacker (or worse than I have already ) I'd like to open a spinoff thread to branch off this discussion in Colored Stones:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/planetary-gems-dreadful-customer-service.206595/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/planetary-gems-dreadful-customer-service.206595/[/URL]

I'll add my thoughts and opinions as they arise and after I get off the computer and enjoy this GORGEOUS Autumn afternoon!

 

[kenny]

This video is worth a thousand of MY words. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

... especially ... "Do you know what they call 'Alternative Medicine' that's been proven to work? ... Medicine!" - Tim Minchin

But hey, people vary.
Many, apparently most, throughout history have turned off their brain's reasoning filters and and fallen for all kinds of things for which there is no evidence.
I guess what we are sure of, what's proven, just ain't enough for them.
Gotta invent answers, and proselytize to get others to believe the so-called 'answers' for any unanswerable question that anyone can conjure up.
The larger the group is the more it feels not-made up. (Oh, and the more money the group makes.)
Gotta program the children too, before they are old enough to reason ... as cigarette companies have long known.

No thanks. Not me.
But knock yourselves out.
Stick pins in voodoo dolls for all I care.
But I will judge, and I will laugh at people's claims of pink unicorns and other gobbledeegook for which there is no proof.
It's funny.

If you proved putting a crystal on a so-called chakra did anything and your data passed objective independent peer-reviews you'd win a Pulitzer Price.
For some reason that has not happened.

Gimme evidence, gimme science, thank you.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I've actually devoted the last two years recording and gathering data pertaining to the study of Reiki on children with Autism. Fascinating stuff. All requiring a healthy dose of reason, logic, and sensitivity to those different from myself! Perhaps when it is more developed I'll post some of it here.

 

[kenny]

I've actually devoted the last two years recording and gathering data pertaining to the study of Reiki on children with Autism. Fascinating stuff. All requiring a healthy dose of reason, logic, and sensitivity to those different from myself! Perhaps when it is more developed I'll post some of it here.

I/we are not qualified to judge it, unless you just want some rah rah rah from buddies on the Internet.

Better yet, post the reviews of your data from professional peer journals from recognized top experts in the field of Autism.

Expertise matters, but here's why we are all for forgetting that. ... http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

Please don't become the next Jenny McCarthy, who brought Whooping Cough back the America with her anti-science fear-based shit.

 

[alpackie]

This video is worth a thousand of MY words. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

... especially ... "Do you know what they call 'Alternative Medicine' that's been proven to work? ... Medicine!" - Tim Minchin

I was just about to quote Tim Minchin, but you beat me to it!

I think that since the scientific method is based on Western cultures' perception of what constitutes "knowledge," scientists are often quick to dismiss things that they do not understand. Based solely off of what's being published in mass media these days, I see a trend in scientists becoming more open to researching unconventional topics. That dude who can control his body temperature in ice-cold water, for example! So by all means, if you can get a grant for it, study the hell out of it!

 

[OreoRosies86]

I've actually devoted the last two years recording and gathering data pertaining to the study of Reiki on children with Autism. Fascinating stuff. All requiring a healthy dose of reason, logic, and sensitivity to those different from myself! Perhaps when it is more developed I'll post some of it here.

I/we are not qualified to judge it, unless you just want some rah rah rah from buddies on the Internet.

Better yet, post the reviews of your data from professional peer journals from recognized top experts in the field of Autism.

Expertise matters, but here's why we are all for forgetting that. ... http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

Please don't become the next Jenny McCarthy, who brought Whooping Cough back the America with her anti-science fear-based shit.[/]


I live and breathe science. I love it! I love peer reviewed research and vaccinations, and despise fear mongering. The doctor who inspired this project was one of the pioneers of her field, studying Autism decades ago when no one knew what it was. She was a personal mentor who opened my eyes to how truly limitless medicine can be. Modern medicine mixed with the holisitc approach has been a major revelation to me.

Since people have complained that no one ever posts topics of interest to PS anymore, I thought there was interest. I was wrong. No harm done.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I am very much a skeptic and I use traditional medicine. However, I do believe you are entitled to your opinion and to follow them, without ridicule. Neither side of the question should be ridiculed or belittled (and yes, some alternative medicines have horrible things to say about people who use traditional medicine just as some skeptics deride those who follow alternative medicine).

Placebo effect is very real and has been measured more than once. In fact, part of the results of traditional medicine can be attributed to it. If you believe that the crystal energies will improve your health, it may just do that. However, as you can see from the last two sentences, I believe that new age methods are placebos

For me, the sticking point is the treatment of children. If adults want to use purely alternative methods, it is their health they are gambling with (as long as they isolate themselves properly if they have a transmissible disease, like anyone should). However, should a parent be able to withhold treatment with a high success rate from their child, substituting it for something with results that are not proven?

 

[kenny]

I've actually devoted the last two years recording and gathering data pertaining to the study of Reiki on children with Autism. Fascinating stuff. All requiring a healthy dose of reason, logic, and sensitivity to those different from myself! Perhaps when it is more developed I'll post some of it here.

I/we are not qualified to judge it, unless you just want some rah rah rah from buddies on the Internet.

Better yet, post the reviews of your data from professional peer journals from recognized top experts in the field of Autism.

Expertise matters, but here's why we are all for forgetting that. ... http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

Please don't become the next Jenny McCarthy, who brought Whooping Cough back the America with her anti-science fear-based shit.[/]


I live and breathe science. I love it! I love peer reviewed research and vaccinations, and despise fear mongering. The doctor who inspired this project was one of the pioneers of her field, studying Autism decades ago when no one knew what it was. She was a personal mentor who opened my eyes to how truly limitless medicine can be. Modern medicine mixed with the holisitc approach has been a major revelation to me.

Since people have complained that no one ever posts topics of interest to PS anymore, I thought there was interest. I was wrong. No harm done.

Mine should be just the first post of many.
One opinion, even if reasoned, is merely one opinion.
Zillions of other opinions out there too.
Their opinions won't shut me up; my opinion shouldn't shut them up either.

Post on, y'all.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I am very much a skeptic and I use traditional medicine. However, I do believe you are entitled to your opinion and to follow them, without ridicule. Neither side of the question should be ridiculed or belittled (and yes, some alternative medicines have horrible things to say about people who use traditional medicine just as some skeptics deride those who follow alternative medicine).

Placebo effect is very real and has been measured more than once. In fact, part of the results of traditional medicine can be attributed to it. If you believe that the crystal energies will improve your health, it may just do that. However, as you can see from the last two sentences, I believe that new age methods are placebos

For me, the sticking point is the treatment of children. If adults want to use purely alternative methods, it is their health they are gambling with (as long as they isolate themselves properly if they have a transmissible disease, like anyone should). However, should a parent be able to withhold treatment with a high success rate from their child, substituting it for something with results that are not proven?

Substituting, no. Trying something like an after-school meditation session out? Absolutely. At this point minimal disruption in routine is the key.

 

[alpackie]

For me, the sticking point is the treatment of children. If adults want to use purely alternative methods, it is their health they are gambling with (as long as they isolate themselves properly if they have a transmissible disease, like anyone should). However, should a parent be able to withhold treatment with a high success rate from their child, substituting it for something with results that are not proven?

No.

There are some communities that do not immunize due to religious reasons. They are actually the cause of the return of the measles, when they sent members of their community to a highly populated area.

If we were able to enforce a law preventing those communities from coming in contact with those outside of their community, then yes, they should be able to gamble their children's health on whatever healing methods their culture uses. However, as we are unable to enforce such a law, parents should abide by their nations' health standards.

 

[alpackie]

Substituting, no. Trying something like an after-school meditation session out? Absolutely. At this point minimal disruption in routine is the key.

I'd agree, if such an after-school program was "opt-in."

 

[OreoRosies86]

Substituting, no. Trying something like an after-school meditation session out? Absolutely. At this point minimal disruption in routine is the key.

I'd agree, if such an after-school program was "opt-in."

Public school systems can't force children to meditate after school or anything

The parents who inquire about meditation and now Reiki (which are not anti science, anti medicine, or religiously affiliated btw...) are often families who are fostering children. It is gathering interest as a way for families to use at home to diffuse stress and conflict.

Aromatherapy too! Incorporating aromatherapy into meditation and self-centering has been so comforting to children in particular with sensory issues.

I love the blossoming options and knowledge in the field of special education and how children learn in general. Nothing like what was available when I was a student.

 

[alpackie]

Public school systems can't force children to meditate after school or anything

The parents who inquire about meditation and now Reiki (which are not anti science, anti medicine, or religiously affiliated btw...) are often families who are fostering children. It is gathering interest as a way for families to use at home to diffuse stress and conflict.

Aromatherapy too! Incorporating aromatherapy into meditation and self-centering has been so comforting to children in particular with sensory issues.

Sorry, I was thinking the alternative would be like incorporated into an existing after-school program as a management tool...which I would not agree with.

But offering that as a stand-alone program would be interesting, albeit perhaps not the most practical as there are virtually no quiet locations in a school, even after school's out!

As a side note, I've always thought of meditation having roots in Buddhism and Hinduism.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Public school systems can't force children to meditate after school or anything

The parents who inquire about meditation and now Reiki (which are not anti science, anti medicine, or religiously affiliated btw...) are often families who are fostering children. It is gathering interest as a way for families to use at home to diffuse stress and conflict.

Aromatherapy too! Incorporating aromatherapy into meditation and self-centering has been so comforting to children in particular with sensory issues.

Sorry, I was thinking the alternative would be like incorporated into an existing after-school program as a management tool...which I would not agree with.

But offering that as a stand-alone program would be interesting, albeit perhaps not the most practical as there are virtually no quiet locations in a school, even after school's out!

As a side note, I've always thought of meditation having roots in Buddhism and Hinduism.

Over the span of many (most) faiths is has been used as a tool to finding higher power. For a godless heathen like me (and countless others), it has also evolved less into seeking spiritual enlightenment and more into finding answers from within as opposed to a "higher power." Or simply being used as a self calming method or a way to train yourself to center at will. Methods used now are a huge melting pot of culture that can be accessed by anyone of particular faith, no faith in particular, or no faith at all.

 

[OreoRosies86]

And since we're posting videos...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r0I80hWOFS8

 

[OreoRosies86]

Public school systems can't force children to meditate after school or anything

The parents who inquire about meditation and now Reiki (which are not anti science, anti medicine, or religiously affiliated btw...) are often families who are fostering children. It is gathering interest as a way for families to use at home to diffuse stress and conflict.

Aromatherapy too! Incorporating aromatherapy into meditation and self-centering has been so comforting to children in particular with sensory issues.

Sorry, I was thinking the alternative would be like incorporated into an existing after-school program as a management tool...which I would not agree with.

But offering that as a stand-alone program would be interesting, albeit perhaps not the most practical as there are virtually no quiet locations in a school, even after school's out!

As a side note, I've always thought of meditation having roots in Buddhism and Hinduism.

These programs are mostly outsourced to already established family health or counseling centers.

 

[Circe]

I can see the possibility of people having affinities for certain substances in a way modern science either hasn't quantified or has yet to bring to its full potential (I mean, chewing willow bark is nice and all, but I'll take the refined extra-strength excedrin any day of the week). I suppose when it comes to this sort of thing I'm an agnostic: I'm not putting all my faith in it, but I can't prove it doesn't work, right? Put me in Lady Disdain's camp: even if it's just the placebo effect, when used in conjunction with proven medicine, it can't hurt and it might help. I'm all for things that give people hope, so long as they're willing to address their issues on more practical levels as well.

P.S. - This is my attitude towards magic/spirituality in general. Prayer to the deity of one's choice may or may not work, but the practice of focus, meditation, and concentration on the issues affecting one's life and their possible solutions? I.e., prayer? Even if "all" that does is program your subconscious (call it the divine within if you like) to help you stay focused on your goals, that is completely and totally worth it.

And, P.P.S. - Elliot, I admire you for presenting an interesting if not necessarily broadly accepted topic, and for accepting disagreement with equanimity & good humor. THAT's the PriceScope I know & love!

 

[movie zombie]

my husband does not "chew" willow bark but does take it in a capsule for the rare headache.
because of the type of rheadache I get [very rarely] I prefer feverfew.
it works better for me and is w/o side effects of other over the counter medications.
while I find modern western medicine to be great for diagnostics, I prefer to explore alternative solutions for most ailments.
this has worked for me.
note: I said most ailments....not all.
I used to have upper respiratory infections every 6-8 weeks and had a standing prescription for antibiotics.
i've found what works for me and I no longer have those upper respiratory infections nor do I take antibiotics on a regular basis.

 

[maccers]

What are the definitions of new age, natural or holistic medicine? For me, new age medicine is very different from natural/holistic medicine. I've always thought new age included gemstones/crystals, reiki and, well, I'm not really sure what else. Natural or holistic medicine can include acupuncture, Chinese herbs, herbs in general, maybe chiropractic (depending who you speak to), massage...natural medicine isn't necessarily scientifically unproven. How are others defining it in this thread?

 

[OreoRosies86]

What are the definitions of new age, natural or holistic medicine? For me, new age medicine is very different from natural/holistic medicine. I've always thought new age included gemstones/crystals, reiki and, well, I'm not really sure what else. Natural or holistic medicine can include acupuncture, Chinese herbs, herbs in general, maybe chiropractic (depending who you speak to), massage...natural medicine isn't necessarily scientifically unproven. How are others defining it in this thread?

I just mean it to be a general discussion about treatment options that are somewhat outside the "norm" of what is regulary prescribed or recommened in a traditional setting. I wasn't trying to imply that they are all lumped together, I can see it looks awkward the way I titled the thread

 

[OreoRosies86]

I can see the possibility of people having affinities for certain substances in a way modern science either hasn't quantified or has yet to bring to its full potential (I mean, chewing willow bark is nice and all, but I'll take the refined extra-strength excedrin any day of the week). I suppose when it comes to this sort of thing I'm an agnostic: I'm not putting all my faith in it, but I can't prove it doesn't work, right? Put me in Lady Disdain's camp: even if it's just the placebo effect, when used in conjunction with proven medicine, it can't hurt and it might help. I'm all for things that give people hope, so long as they're willing to address their issues on more practical levels as well.

P.S. - This is my attitude towards magic/spirituality in general. Prayer to the deity of one's choice may or may not work, but the practice of focus, meditation, and concentration on the issues affecting one's life and their possible solutions? I.e., prayer? Even if "all" that does is program your subconscious (call it the divine within if you like) to help you stay focused on your goals, that is completely and totally worth it.

And, P.P.S. - Elliot, I admire you for presenting an interesting if not necessarily broadly accepted topic, and for accepting disagreement with equanimity & good humor. THAT's the PriceScope I know & love!

That is awesome of you to say Circe, thanks

 

[HopeDream]

I absolutely love the idea of New Age/Natural/Holistic healing!
However, none of the natural remedies I have purchased in the past have been effective for me in treating minor common maladies (compared to about a 50% effectiveness rate with western medicine).
So I must conclude that, for me, alternative medicine is pleasant but ineffective.

If it works for you, go for it!
(But please don't forgo effective treatment of a serious but treatable illness in favor of an alternative cure, if your life is at stake: http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/m...-who-refused-chemo-relapsed-doctor-1.2787249).)

Here's a cool article on why ineffective treatments spread and grow in popularity:
http://www.newscientist.com/article...-by-virtue-of-being-useless.html#.VDI2OBa24wA

 

[maccers]

What are the definitions of new age, natural or holistic medicine? For me, new age medicine is very different from natural/holistic medicine. I've always thought new age included gemstones/crystals, reiki and, well, I'm not really sure what else. Natural or holistic medicine can include acupuncture, Chinese herbs, herbs in general, maybe chiropractic (depending who you speak to), massage...natural medicine isn't necessarily scientifically unproven. How are others defining it in this thread?

I just mean it to be a general discussion about treatment options that are somewhat outside the "norm" of what is regulary prescribed or recommened in a traditional setting. I wasn't trying to imply that they are all lumped together, I can see it looks awkward the way I titled the thread

Thank you for the explanation. I think acupuncture and chiropractic fall outside the norm somewhat. I've had great success with both of them. Acupuncture for treating runner's knee (IT band issues) and pms-related sleep disturbances. Chiropractic has greatly reduced the severity and frequency of my migraines. I used to take a lot of Motrin/ibuprofen for my migraines and now I rarely use it. That's a win in my books.

 

[arkieb1]

Interestingly modern medicine used to mock acupuncture and Chinese medicine as witchcraft and now finally scientists have conducted studies monitoring people with a range of illnesses to discover that acupuncture, acupressure and some forms of Chinese medicine that have been around for centuries do actually work.

I am one of those oddball people that sense energy in things, scientifically we know that gemstones of different chemical properties all vibrate or give off different energy due to different chemical compositions. I believe some people can feel this, I being one of them. You can blindfold me and I can find the powerpoints in your home. I can also find water by water divining but have no idea why other than I am also allergic to a wide array of foods, perfumes, and household chemicals. Perhaps I was born with a whole system out of whack and am super sensitive to things the ordinary person is not - or that seems like the most rational explanation to me.

Unfortunately there are many people that make a living out of preying off people that wish to believe anything. They make everyone skeptical of everything.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, I am absolutely in favor of using natural, holistic (not New Age) remedies. People managed to cure a lot of things before modern medicine. Chinese medicine is an example. Let me first say I am thankful for modern medicine and the life saving methods and drugs associated with it. But people are taking too many meds and some if it is hurting their health more than helping (read any warning label). Many drugs today are approved too soon and later taken off the market AFTER too many negative effects have occurred. Add processed foods to that and we are bringing on health problems by what we ingest! I am thankful that I am healthy and take no prescription meds at all and I am in my 50s.

This is not all related to medicine, but it is related to using natural things for health in general. There are tons of beneficial uses of coconut oil:

http://www.dvatche.com/index.php?page=collection&catID=3,11&startRow=0&id=147 (random link, I am not endorsing site)

Why wouldn't I prefer a natural substance over one filled with chemicals when putting it on or in my body?

 

[OreoRosies86]

Interestingly modern medicine used to mock acupuncture and Chinese medicine as witchcraft and now finally scientists have conducted studies monitoring people with a range of illnesses to discover that acupuncture, acupressure and some forms of Chinese medicine that have been around for centuries do actually work.

I am one of those oddball people that sense energy in things, scientifically we know that gemstones of different chemical properties all vibrate or give off different energy due to different chemical compositions. I believe some people can feel this, I being one of them. You can blindfold me and I can find the powerpoints in your home. I can also find water by water divining but have no idea why other than I am also allergic to a wide array of foods, perfumes, and household chemicals. Perhaps I was born with a whole system out of whack and am super sensitive to things the ordinary person is not - or that seems like the most rational explanation to me.

Unfortunately there are many people that make a living out of preying off people that wish to believe anything. They make everyone skeptical of everything.

I have met a ton of charlatans over the years. That is going to happen until this field is better regulated.

I think it is funny that acupunture is widely accepted but energy work is not. We're not talking about Santa Claus, energy is a studied and well researched science. Why is it so foreign to people that energy can be detected and channeled? Some of the best energy healing I have witnessed was on veterans who were getting energy treatment for the first time. The trauma they were internalizing which was able to be moved through them was fascinating. It isn't uncommon for people to start crying. We see this all the time during treatments like shiatsu massage where people experiencing release of bottled up tension or stress will start to cry involuntarily.

 

[iLander]

I have fiddled around with chakras, and can feel them when I hold my hands about a person's body. They feel like little tiny fans, and you can actually feel the breeze, which is very weird. You have to basically give yourself up, your sense of identity must disappear and the experience must become you. Then they are there plain as day. I have shoved the energy of healthy chakras toward areas of heat (which tend to be areas of pain, for some reason) and then you fan the excess energy off the body. If you do it wrong, you can end up with aches wherever you've left energy "puddled up", so you must shove it off completely.

But I'm a classical Taoist, so we believe in the energy flowing through things, and don't find it strange.

Also, I think believing that the world is only what we see and perceive is foolish. There is much more to this place than we can fathom, layers of life that are beyond our perception.

Being tuned into people's energies (everyone has an energy) is not all that great, actually. Some people give off horrible energies, people that pass me on the street, sometimes they freak me out. When I go to large cities, I have to close off, or the "ambient noise" really bothers me.

 

[movie zombie]

I think of myself as an existential Taoist, iLander.
when I get acupuncture it is like getting "plugged in".
in the old movies phone operators at switchboards are manually plugging callers into lines.......
that is my experience of acupuncture: as each needle is placed it is a connection and I actually experience them talking to each other.
I LOVE it!

 

[OreoRosies86]

I have fiddled around with chakras, and can feel them when I hold my hands about a person's body. They feel like little tiny fans, and you can actually feel the breeze, which is very weird. You have to basically give yourself up, your sense of identity must disappear and the experience must become you. Then they are there plain as day. I have shoved the energy of healthy chakras toward areas of heat (which tend to be areas of pain, for some reason) and then you fan the excess energy off the body. If you do it wrong, you can end up with aches wherever you've left energy "puddled up", so you must shove it off completely.

But I'm a classical Taoist, so we believe in the energy flowing through things, and don't find it strange.

Also, I think believing that the world is only what we see and perceive is foolish. There is much more to this place than we can fathom, layers of life that are beyond our perception.

Being tuned into people's energies (everyone has an energy) is not all that great, actually. Some people give off horrible energies, people that pass me on the street, sometimes they freak me out. When I go to large cities, I have to close off, or the "ambient noise" really bothers me.

My best friend is like this. She has never explored energies the way I have but she gets very specific and sometimes rattling inuitions about people based on energy alone. She can read people as clearly as you or I could read a magazine. Do you ever see colors around people iLander?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I posted a setting link from a previous reply instead of the one about coconut oil! This is definitely worth looking at. Out of 100 suggestions, I am sure most of us can find a few uses! I first read about it in relation to Alzheimer's.

http://wellnessmama.com/5734/101-uses-for-coconut-oil/