Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

New information being provided by Paul Antwerp

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
WinkHPD

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
Paul Slegers, known as Paul Antwerp on this forum was here for a whirlwind tour this weekend. He arrived in Boise on Thursday evening, spent all day with us on Friday and then was off to see another vendor of his Venus by Infinity Brand in Arizona on Saturday, and is on a plane back to Belgium as I type this.

He was very excited about some of the information that was revealed at the cutting conference in Moscow but I will let him talk about why he has been doing the right things with his stones and why the cut conference confirms this.

What I was most excited about is the quantity of information that he is now making available on each stone that he cuts. If you go to:

http://www.elmyrservices.com/stone.asp?id=0C8D56DE4B75A9E469FBD54B921445D7 you can see what is there. The first time you go you will probably need to follow the steps to download and install a viewer, but it will be only couple of moments, then you will be amazed.

This stone for example is a 1.10ct F-VS1. You will be taken first to a screen that allows you to see the basic information and download the player if you do not already have it. You can then choose to download the cert, which looks small at first but if you move the curser over the lower right hand corner a button will pop up that allows you to magnify it.

The second option is the one I like the most. It allows you to download a 3D view of the stone that opens in sillouette view with all of the numbers just as you would see them on an AGS Diamond Qualiity Document. So far so good, but the really neat part is when you left click on the stone you can drag it around to any angle or view that you like, and if you click on the various facet lines then various numbers and percentages pop up. Try clicking on the table first, you will see what I mean.

My comment to Paul was, "Hey this is sort of like getting Rhino to give you a tour of the stone and its every facet."

A third choice allows you to view the Hearts and Arrows photo of the stone, a fourth to view the gemprint pattern of the stone and finally, a fifth option to see a photo of the engraving on the stone. The stone in this case was accidentally sent to GIA before being Gemprinted so the Gemprint number is not on this girdle, only the Venus by Infinity.

Lot of information on every stone. This service is offered to all diamond manufacturers by a company that I believe is called ElMyr. I think that pretty soon the demand for information by the diamond buying public will demand more of this type of information as is evidenced by the demand that Rhino gets for the information that he provides. This will allow peopel who do not have the time to do all that Rhino does himself to have this information done professionally for each and every diamond that they wish to sell.

Go play with this and let me know what you think of it. I think it is soon going to be hard to sell a diamond on the internet without this type of full disclosure, so it is exciting to me to have it available. I will be interested in your comments.

Wink
 
I like that. Alot!
 
Actually, Paul is working on that. Currently you must go to a second URL to get the Idealscope picture, but only the idealscope picture is available there. Paul says that soon they will have the idealscope picture as another option on the main screen.

Here is the idealscope picture for that stone.

http://www.elmyrservices.com/stone.asp?id=F00E58B916EA753E6B9EA57388742EB9

By the way, what do you do to make it a clickable link?

Wink
 
The lighting and contrast of the picture looks good.
It looks like the diamond may be slighly tilted in the idealscope image as you can see in the distorsion of the arrows.
They look good in the h&a photo but it is something to watch out for because often when comparing idealscope images people will compare the arrows too.

cut nut may be able to tell more accuratly what is going on with the photo but it looks like a tilt to me.
 
Thanks for the info on the links, that is a good thing to know!

As for the tilt, beats the heck out of me, maybe the Cut Nut can ride to my rescue.

I think one of the benefits of having a third party do the information is that they will do it once and if it is not perfect they will not keep trying until it is, they have lebenty seben stones to do and no proprietary interest in taking ten Sarin reports until they get the one they want. (Yes, the Sarins do have a tendency to vary from one reading to the next, sad to say, but true.)

It is entirely possible that there is a minor tilt in the picture, and it is entirely possible that the H&A pattern is not absolutely perfect, but if it is not it is VERY close!

Thanks for your input, did you play with all of the data that is avialable throughout the display, especially in the 3d version?

Wink
 
yep i looked it over.
I like that format.
It gives one a lot of different ways to look at the numbers.
The only bad part is that it only works in IE. but that these days only matters to oldtimers and computer geeks.
 
Yes, I too prefer Netscape, but I am not supposed to admit it in public...

Wink
 
Hello all,

I seem to be somewhat recovered from my whirlwind-trip.

The stone is indeed somewhat tilted on one of the pictures, and therefore the picture could be better. I know that this company is still working on improving such mishaps, and that is fine for me.

I know that if I kept this under our control, in stead of sourcing it out, we would make sure to avoid such small mistakes. But I prefer to give my attention to buying good rough and cutting. Also, with an independent company taking the pictures, nobody can doubt whether they might include any tricks to make the stone look better.

Also, for my dealers, with me providing this info, they can concentrate more on their business.

Live long,

Paul
 
Hopefully Leonid won't think of this as self-promoting since I'm asking the question, but Wink---could you give me your take on the Venus esp. as compared to the Eightstar, since you're familiar with both? I don't need a value judgment, I'm just curious as to any visual differences you've seen.
 
Wink, your words ring very true to me - "I think it is soon going to be hard to sell a diamond on the internet without this type of full disclosure."

For many of us (trying to get) educated consumer-types it will be very hard to sell a diamond in a B&M without this type of full disclosure. Jon at GoodOldGold has the exact same Sarin and GemAdvisor Virtual Models and software avialable for the diamonds he makes available online - I seriously felt like I knew more about stones I considered at GOG over stones I held and louped in local stores.

i.e. http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_65ct_g_vs1_h%26a1.htm.

cheers
limey
 
----------------
On 5/25/2004 4:14:21 PM Hest88 wrote:

Hopefully Leonid won't think of this as self-promoting since I'm asking the question, but Wink---could you give me your take on the Venus esp. as compared to the Eightstar, since you're familiar with both? I don't need a value judgment, I'm just curious as to any visual differences you've seen.----------------
Click to expand...
I love both of the stones! No value judgement there, just fact.

The visual differences are very subtle, and I could probably show you much easier than tell you.

If you go to look at Cut Nuts diagrams you will notice the rectangle of the ideal cut and how there are areas that perform better than others. You may also have thought that if you cut your diamonds so that they are near the center of the "HOT Spot" that they would perform better. It was discussed at the cutting conference recently that actually the highest performing and best looking stones are cut to be near the edges of the box. It has something to do with contrast making the stones alive.

Paul cuts his stones near the edge, say if you assume the edge to be approximately 40.3 - 40.4 pavilion angle, then you will note that Paul's stones are cut near there at the 40.6-40.7 range. This gives them a great contrast and super pop!

EightStars tend to have larger flashes of on/off brilliance which also gives great contrast and excitement to the stone. Looking at these stones reminds me of the old song, "Torn between two lovers". They are both magnificent. In the firescope the differences are easy to see, to the unaided eye, the differences are subtle. Some of my clients prefer the EightStar, others the Infinity, it is largely a matter of taste. One thing I can say for sure is that as the manufacturer of his stones, Paul keeps a very tight control of his cutters and his product is VERY consistent in its beauty. In this he is very much like Richard von Sternberg, who personally oversees the quality control of each stone as it is being faceted at EightStar.

In my opinion, it is this kind of up close and personal supervision by these two men that result in both of them having such a consistent product.

I hope that answers your questions, but it would be much easier if you would just come here and look at them both side by side!

2.gif


Wink
 
Thanks Wink. So does that mean that the Venus looks more like the best H&A than it does an 8*? (Smaller flashes.)
 
Hi Hest,

I will try to answer your question about the uniqueness of our brand, while trying not to talk down the others.

To start, a Venus-by-Infinity indeed has a very high number of small flashes as opposed to fewer big flashes. Generally, people tend to like the big flashes from a distance, but the multitude of small flashes is much more appealing at a normal viewing distance. A matter of taste, thus.

Also, in my cutting, I try to strengthen the intensity of the flashes. In order to understand this, you should really understand the fourth factor in a diamond's beauty, contrast (next to brilliance, fire and scintillation). Garry H explained it very clearly in his newsletter, which you can find on http://www.ideal-scope.com/newsletter_issue_003.asp

Bruce Harding already found in the 70's that the best possible combinations of proportions in any gemstone were close to a no-go-zone. The concept of contrast explains why this is so. The closer a diamond is cut to a no-go-zone, the more intense the on/off of the flashes of each light window will be when you slightly move the diamond. Ever since I was young, I liked the phrase "the most beautiful flowers grow at the edge of a cliff". Now, I can use this phrase when describing diamonds.

Because we set up our independent company with the goal of cutting the most beautiful diamonds, we are fully organized to cut as closely to the edge as possible.

I need to stop here, because I do not want to pass the fine line of information and come into the territory of self-promotion. Anyway, I hope that this reply somehow clarifies and answers your question.

Live long,
 
Interesting Paul,
That agrees with something Rhino has said on a few occasions.
That his favorite combo is 34.3 combined with 40.8
(i may be .1 off because 40.7 also comes to mind but the point is the same.)
A slight polishing mishape and your in the under 34 and or over 41 territory.
Where if you cut to the 34.5 and 40.5 range and it goes on way or the other your still in the safe zone.

Do you cut crown first or pavillion first?

What production percentage doesnt make the "cut" for the brand or do you just recut the ones that dont make it untill they do like 8*?

What are the standards to qualify for the brand?
(cant say for business reasons is an acceptable answer and understandable)

The last one will border on self promotion but because im being nosey you should be ok. :}
 
I will look forward to Paul's answer. Every single stone of his that I have in stock has either a 40.6 or a 40.7% pavilion angle. I know that he cuts them there on purpose.

Wink
 
Thanks Paul. Too bad Mother's Day is over or I'd be really tempted to get one for my mom. Maybe next year...
 
btt, still waiting for Paul to reply :}
 
Hi Storm,

Sorry for my late reply to your questions. I feared that I would cross the line of self-promotion, but since you PM'ed me that Leonid is OK with me answering these questions, I can go ahead.

Your technical question is easy: a pavilion is always finished first.

The basic standard in order to qualify for the cut is that they are cut by us. Now, what do we do and what do we aim for in our cutting? Well, there are so many labs, scientists and other authorities all working with their own cut grading system. Our goal is that we score in the highest category for each of these systems:
- AGS-0 grading report (we used to work with GIA, where we wanted EX-EX, combined with 0-proportions, but from now on, we work with AGS),
- Idealscope-view, with minor leakage around the girdle area, so that we end up with an excellent contrast,
- Excellent and crisp H&A.
- Combinations of proportions (major and minor facets) that score highest according to the latest studies of Moscow State University
- Within the same facets, we aim for a minimal variance in angles, position and size.

Furthermore, we are fully prepared for the new AGS cut grading system.

Basically, it is as simple as that, although with our cutting fully under our control, we do have some advantages. While cutting, and after finishing the pavilion, we can still adapt the crown to the outcome of the pavilion. This is very difficult for others to organize.

You should understand the following technical cutting problem. Faceting a diamond does not happen in a straight movement, in which you would start a facet at a specific angle (say 40.7°) and in which you maintain that angle until you finish your facet at this same angle. Not so. While you are working in a facet, your stone makes a circular movement, in which the angle of your facet constantly changes. In the pavilion mains, you probably start at 41.5, and while you are cutting away more material, your angle slowly goes down, and your final angle depends on the point in time that you finish your facet.

Now that you know this, you also understand the risk of overshooting, so that you go too low in your angle. If you look at other super-ideal brands, you will see that their pavilion angle is in general about 0.2° higher than the same angle in a Venus-by-Infinity. We are organized in such a way that we can cut closer to the edge, where they are not.

Finally, you wanted to know which percentage of goods does not make it to the brand's standards.

Well, we used to have a problem with GIA, because of 5% of goods not receiving EX on polish. Because of the delays with GIA, it was economically unpractical to repair such stones, and to re-submit them. Now that we started working with AGS, we get results much faster, and it is doable to take care of these repairs.

Other than that, if we cut a stone, this stone will have the brand's standards. Already in the rough, we judge whether a rough stone is more valuable when cut to a Venus-by-Infinity, or when it is cut as a bigger average cut. If the latter is true, we will not cut this stone. One of the advantages of being based in Antwerp is that it is easy to sell a parcel of rough. So, we only work on that rough where it economically makes sense to cut them to our standards. Then, of course, it becomes easier to maintain the standards.

Finally, just one small note. Of course, it is interesting to know what exactly is the difference between the different brands of super-ideals. This should however not turn into a war on details. Together, we have another battle to fight, which is to stress the importance of cut. Luckily, AGS will give us a big push next year, and I am curious as to how this will change the market.

I hope that I answered your questions,

Live long,
 
Good Morning Paul:




Just wanted to say that I have never seen your product but you share many of the same business principles concerning your product that Richard Von Sternberg has shared with me about his.




The two-brands are set apart from each other with different styles of cutting which both share Great Quality Control in an evolving industry with cutting edge technology to perform a better performing diamond.




It has been a pleasure reading your take on cutting such stones...
21.gif
 
Interesting,
thank you Paul :}
I think its majorly kewl that we consumers get to peek behind the curtain once in a while into the inner workings of the industry as represented by the PS vendors.

Another thing that is kewl about PS. is that a lot of the vendors are friendly with each other and get along well.
In talking to a lot of them they have nothing but good to say about their main competitors here.
Sure they disagree here and there on some minor points but there attitude is pretty much the same as you displayed the real challenge in "Together, we have another battle to fight, which is to stress the importance of cut."

Thank You
 
----------------
On 6/6/2004 9:23:21 AM strmrdr wrote:


Another thing that is kewl about PS. is that a lot of the vendors are friendly with each other and get along well.
In talking to a lot of them they have nothing but good to say about their main competitors here.
Sure they disagree here and there on some minor points but there attitude is pretty much the same as you displayed the real challenge in 'Together, we have another battle to fight, which is to stress the importance of cut.'

Thank You
----------------
Click to expand...
When you get a chance to meet Paul you will find that he is a true gentleman! It has been my great pleasure to work with him for the past couple of years and he is a one hundred percent great guy to work with as well as a good man to have as a friend.

There are many great people on this board, so I am not going to get into the futile, here are the good guys list, oops I forgot these three" game. Suffice it to say that there is more reason for us to work together improving the market for jewelry over say, fur coats or Mercedes or vacation trips, than there is for us to fight amongst ourselves!

Wink
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top