Newbie Needs Help!! Custom Halo Setting for Cushion

[baj]

Hi,

I have recently purchased the perfect stone for my future wife after months of searching!! It is a GIA 1.69 H VS-1 Old Mine Brilliant cushion shape stone. I am working with the same wholesaler whom found the stone for me and is very reputable. I am working on a custom CAD/Cast setting based on a few designs that I found that I like. I would love to have some of you experts chime in on what your thoughts are on this first rendition. I am in somewhat of a hurry to get do this, but I want to get the design on paper right first as I am very anal. As a newbie, I have no clue what I am doing here other than my countless hours of research on these forums and online.

A few of my initial questions...
Are the holes under each pave diamond going to cause warping/rigidity issues in the future?
Are the "prongs" that hold the small pave diamonds larger than normal or is it just the pictures?
The gold under the halo seems to be "bulky" (ie. I want the edge of the halo diamonds to protrude beyond edge of metal)Do you agree??

Any other suggestions for this design????

 

[WillyDiamond]

First, I think you have a duplicate post so you could ask admin to delete the other post. It happens.

As fars as the design is concern, it is personal taste. The only thing that jumps out at me are the prongs in the first picture that are holding your center stone. From the picture they appear to be very high and bulky, not dainty. It is hard to tell from the CAD.

I don't know where you are located, but if you use one of the following vendors who have done numerous "halo" jobs for PS members, you will not be disappointed. They include:
ERD-Engagement Rings Direct
SK-Steven Kirsch
VC-Victor Canera
The first 2 are in NYC, VC is in California. Best of luck.

 

[baj]

Thank you for the response! I spoke to him about the prongs and he mentioned they are not bent over the stone as they will be once complete. He assured me they are the normal size prongs, just appear odd in the CAD.

What are your thoughts on the holes in the band of the ring?? He mentioned the holes are mainly to ease cleaning of the stones, but also to increase light penetration. I do not understand how light penetration would be increased since the band will be against her finger anyway, thus blocking light. I also think this will compromise the structural rigidity of it, but I really have no clue hear.

I realize it is a personal preference on the design and this is the typical design that I want. I just want to ensure I get all of the minor issues with the current design solved before we get into casting.

I also had him tilt the halo slightly (the pics show it on the same plane as the center stone). I asked for a 20 degree offset. Is 20 degs too much of an offset?

Please any further help will be MUCH appreciated!

 

[momhappy]

^I'm glad to hear that you suggested they they tilt the halo. My initial reaction after looking at your images was that I was concerned about the angle of the halo (or more specifically, a lack of angle/tilt). I find halos to be more aesthetically-pleasing when they are tilted/angled slightly. My mother-in-law has the same round halo ring that I have (she designed hers after seeing mine). She utilized a vendor that did not tilt/angle her halo and I think that mine looks so much better. I realize that it's a personal preference though.

 

[baj]

Re: Newbie Needs Help Please!! Custom Halo Setting for Cush

Thank you momhappy! I appreciate your input.

Can anyone comment on the hole question mentioned above? I have not seen holes through any other band that I have looked at.

Thanks to all in advance!

 

[Gypsy]

The holes are called azures. And well, they have pros and cons. The pro is that they allow the diamonds above them to get very clean. But their presence tells me that the halo is going to VERY metal heavy. Most of the halos on PS are not metal heavy at all. No matter what style of pave is used. And as a result azures would result in a swiss cheese like effect that would make the halo very weak.

Can you show me what the images you gave the jeweler were that resulted in this CAD. Cause there are several red flags I am seeing in this CAD. And I want to see if they are a result of your request, or just this jeweler's (frankly) inexperience with good halos.


Please read this also: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/[/URL]

 

[baj]

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...t I also want to get it right the first time.

 

[WillyDiamond]

Baj
If you work with a local jeweler the halo may come out the way you want or maybe not.
Most people on the forums would agree that if ERD, VC or SK do the job you will definitely be pleased.
Either way, best of luck.

 

[baj]

I understand willy and sincerely appreciate your input. Before I go that route, I would really rather see if this design could work (mainly due to time involved with me being in south MS and logistics of someone east or west coast). If you all do not think that this design could work at all, please let me know.

Before I commit, I wanted to get input from you all on specific issues that you might see with the current drawing.

So far I don't hear many major issues. Gypsy did mention a few issues were noticed, but wanted to see what design I was trying to mimic somewhat.

Oh yeah cost estimate is ~2k on this design with my current vendor, FYI. Seems to be in line with most others.

Thanks again for the support, baj.

 

[shoegirl]

Thank you for the response! I spoke to him about the prongs and he mentioned they are not bent over the stone as they will be once complete. He assured me they are the normal size prongs, just appear odd in the CAD.

What are your thoughts on the holes in the band of the ring?? He mentioned the holes are mainly to ease cleaning of the stones, but also to increase light penetration. I do not understand how light penetration would be increased since the band will be against her finger anyway, thus blocking light. I also think this will compromise the structural rigidity of it, but I really have no clue hear.

I realize it is a personal preference on the design and this is the typical design that I want. I just want to ensure I get all of the minor issues with the current design solved before we get into casting.

I also had him tilt the halo slightly (the pics show it on the same plane as the center stone). I asked for a 20 degree offset. Is 20 degs too much of an offset?

Please any further help will be MUCH appreciated!

i'm very inexperienced too, but can you tell me what a tilt is on the halo?? super confused! lol

 

[WillyDiamond]

Baj
Gypsy thought the shank was a little metal heavy or clunky looking. Do you know the width of the shank. I believe (not 100% sure) that most that are made by the vendors I recommended are about 2mm, from your pics, it looks wider, but I cannot tell for sure. My wife's ring is my avatar and you can see my post on SMTB, same with Momhappy, wife's ring is 2mm in width (I think).

 

[Gypsy]

Yeah. That CAD is not going to result in the same or similar halo to the VC original. I promise you that.

All that CAD shows me is that they have NO IDEA how to make a HW style halo. That's not the right CAD for what you want. Not the right pave style. And the halo plate is all wrong. Too big, and too bulky and again... wrong style of pave.

I would not work with this jeweler for this design. Get your deposit back.

 

[Gypsy]

This is what the CAD of the HW halo style you want looks like: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/urgently-seeking-feedback-on-cushion-halo-please-erd.161589/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/urgently-seeking-feedback-on-cushion-halo-please-erd.161589/[/URL]

See the difference ?

This jeweler you are working with is fumbling around in the dark, blind. That style cannot support Azures and the stones are set incorrectly and... there is just nothing RIGHT about that CAD. You chose the jeweler poorly. I'm sorry.

 

[Gypsy]

This is correct:

 

[Gypsy]

This is what the style of pave looks like, when properly done:
From Charmy:

For comparison purposes, this is what I mean when I say minimal metal. I am fairly confident when I say that few can do this out of the regularly recommended PS vendors.

Leon Mege



Steven Kirsch



Both - Their work is so compareable that you can barely tell who is who


My Rings - Leon, Steven, Maytal, Steven. The 3rd ring is v-cut and has a different look but also take notice that there is more metal (not because it is v-cut but because of the bench).


Victor Canera - I don't own one of his rings but have been observing his work. He is on my list of pave master minds after seeing PH Mom's ring. Simply stunning.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Gypsy has given you excellent advice. One other thing I immediately noticed is that the base of the prongs is too low and a wedding band is going to rub up against those prongs. See in the rings Gypsy posted how there is a little base (we call it a doughnut) under the head/halo that connects to the shank and the prongs come up from there. Your prongs are bowing outward and that just isn't going to work unless she doesn't wear a wedding band.

I really like Victor Canera's version even better than the CADs Gypsy posted first. His is the last picture in the part she quoted from Charmy right above my post.

You may be trying to save money, but we can tell you from experience, you get what you pay for (or less sometimes).

Do you have magnified pictures of your diamond?

 

[baj]

Thanks all. For clarity I mentioned it earlier but maybe I wasn't clear. I did not want that style of pave setting. I don't particularly care for the "lines" cut into the actual metal. I asked them to modify my setting to all small diamonds to be set with prongs on top of the actual structural part of the ring. I feel this looks better but just my opinion. The one that gypsy showed in the last post is similar in design but not exactly what I was going for with the pave style.

I will ask about halo dimensions thanks for the 2mm tip.

I wanted...
- pave set with prongs rather than indented all the way into metal
- birthstone under center
- lower head or crown of ring
- slightly large pave stoned
- 20 deg offset halo
- center stone not too high
- halo support bars to go to base of ring for ring to sit lower
- custom band to fit around ring and halo support bars

Not sure what to do but given that the pave style is per my request I am not sure that this design is very far off from what I told them. With that said, Gypsy do you still feel the design is wrong given the above details?

Shoegirl after months of searching this forum I noticed a couple of halos that had a slight offset from the center stone. I think this greatly enhances the appearance thus I asked for a 20 degree tilt outward (from the center stone) with the halo. Personal preference but I feel a straight up facing halo is too blocky.

 

[baj]

Also, diamond seeker I do have a lot of pics of the stone. They are on my other computer which I do not have access to at the moment. I will post them when I can.

If I was to get in touch with VC, how would I go about doing that? It's not really about the money just the time and my loyalty. Like i mentioned i am in a hurry so any idea how long the process would take with VC working remotely? does he need the actual stone to make the setting or will the specs suffice? My jeweler has spent a good bit of time with me discussing what I wanted in the design. For me to back out now would be not very nice on my part but if its what I need to do then so be it I suppose. I suppose I wouldn't mind going up to $3k ish on the setting if I needed to. I did not want to go fully handmade to avoid getting in the $5k range. Do u think a VC design will be in that $3k ballpark?

 

[Acinom]

A VC halo (the Emilya) will cost you 4-5k I think. It's best if he has the stone to work with and with a halo I think a jeweller needs the center stone. You could ship the duamond to LA (insured via Fedex or Malca Amit or...?). The process time is about 4 weeks but if you are in a hurry you could ask him whether a shorter leadtime is possible.
VC only makes custom handforged rings.

ERD can also make beautiful halo rings, both CAD/CAST as well as handforged. I think their price is lower: around 3k???
It's best to call or mail them and ask for quotes and leaftimes. VC can work very fast but it will depend on the number of customers probably whether the ring can be made within a short timeframe.

Both vendors will send the completed ring back to you insured.

Good luck in making your decision. Various posters have given you some great advice and I would follow it: it's not going to happen with your local jeweller and it's a lifetime investment. You should be blown away every time you look at it.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Wow Gypsy. I don't remember even writing that post ... I was far more helpful in the past.

 

[chrisan]

My diamond is currently with VC. The setting will be cushion with tapered baguettes and the quote was about $4500. I would think pave is more expensive since it's so labor intensive. Anyway, he's super swamped right now, he said he's got new projects coming in every day and he will probably start working on mine in a couple of weeks. He said pave will have a longer turnaround time than baguettes- makes sense. He only works on one project at a time. I need to be more patient. I'm hoping it will be completed by mid- April ( in 4-5 weeks), but it doesn't look very feasible, he said it's a possibility but he can't really say yes- he will let me know in 2 weeks after he's more caught up in his other projects before he can focus on mine. He's such a really superb artist and deserves all the attention, but it's bad news for me.
I'm so excited to see the final result and can't wait to get my ring but I suppose there are other things to distract me...

 

[WillyDiamond]

Hey Op
Now that I am seeing some recent quotes in above posts, contact Chris at ERD and you will save a lot of money.
Best of luck.

 

[Gypsy]

Well you asking for a different pave style accounts for some of it.
The stems/gallery are still completely wrong, as DS noted. But that's something we could fix.
The halo plate is still a problem, if with the 20% tilt you asked for. And I don't know the width of the shank but if it is anywhere near 2.0mm then those azures are frankly stupid as they will swiss cheese that shank.



I don't know. Did you SEE a lot of their pave halos? If you did and you liked them, maybe. But I can't tell you more than that.

But if it were me, I would be concerned.

 

[baj]

Thanks all! I guess my inexperience requested some odd differences. The "stems" for the crown are exactly what I asked for. I was planning to have the band made to go around the stems just as it would go around a "donut" as DS mentioned. Why would a custom band that accounts for the stems not work? Excuse my ignorance.

I will ask about the halo width of shank. Most halos I see do not incorporate azures. Do Azores really increase light performance due to light penetration? It makes sense in my mind that they would but I am not sure.

I can ask him to rid all azures in both ring and halo. Should I do that as well or am I sacrificing too much from a cleaning and light performance standpoint?

I should have access to my computer later today/tomorrow and I will post some pics of the stone. Thanks so much.

 

[baj]

Can anyone help with the few questions I have above about the custom band to fit around stems and the azures? I need to make the final decision and design changes tomorrow with my jeweler.

Thanks again for all of the great support and useful information. I have learned a lot.

 

[Gypsy]

Azures have nothing to do with light performance. A well cut round (and that includes melee) gathers light from and reflects it back through the crown of the stone.

The azures are only for ease of cleaning the stones.

And yes, I would have them removed in this setting.

As for the stems It's a poor design choice by you, sorry. I understand what you said about having a custom wedding band made but it's going to look funny and also make your center look smaller and the set will look unbalanced because it will result in half the set having a double halo effect from the wedding band.

I would revise the undergallery design to one of these:


See the whole undergallery here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-stone-has-a-new-home-halo-reset-from-steven-kirsch.177434/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-stone-has-a-new-home-halo-reset-from-steven-kirsch.177434/[/URL]
Another simpler design alternative:


Both of which will accommodate straight flush fit wedding bands.

As for the jeweler and his ability. The only mistakes he's made are the azures and the over abundance of metal in the design.

The rest of the 'errors' I noted are direct results of your requests, so it seems like the jeweler is better than originally thought.

 

[baj]

Thanks Gypsy. I was trying to avoid the "cathedral" style settings as I call them. I do not care for the large gallery area. I suppose I could incorporate a "donut" and move the stems up a bit but one thing that she does not want it it to sit up too high on her finger. Or I could simply move the stems on top of shank and have the band sit flush with ring I suppose.

BTW I am doing this alone as I want it to be a total surprise which explains some of my poor design choices. I really like the look of the original design so I hope a donut does not take away from that or make the crown appear too high.

I am still on the fence about the azures, the more I research the more confused I get. Pros and cons. Easier to clean but some say it gets dirty quicker due to lotion, oil, etc from skin. Would you remove azures in halo as well? I suppose the halo could support them but I will ask the dimensions when we speak tomorrow.

Thanks baj

 

[Gypsy]

I'd remove all the azures in the whole thing.

Why are you against cathedral shanks? They provide stability and in this case, will let you get a lower set head on the setting.

 

[Gypsy]

THIS is what you need to do if you don't want cathedral. Your stems are convex, you need them to be concave. And yes, on top of the shank.




You really are making some questionable choices. I wish you'd listen to us.

 

[Gypsy]

I also don't like the pave style you've picked.

Does SHE want a HW halo? Cause if she does... I really don't see why you've mucked it up so much with all this unnecessary customization and design interference.